Lifestyles Unlimited by Del Walmsley
Rental Property Investor · Baytown, TX · Member since 2008 · 94 posts · 21 votes
Lifestyles Unlimited by Del Walmsley
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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesAlthough I was never a member of Lifestyles, a few years ago I taught some classes for them as a guest lecturer and attended some others. I also got to know some of the members as well as Del and others working for him. I do not think Lifestyles is in the same category as many of the other guru and mentoring programs, in that Lifestyles provides a hands on approach with very specific guidance and an emphasis on the actual purchase of residential properties. Their emphasis seems to be on realistic approaches to real estate investing, unlike many of the easy money (and useless) methods taught by the "gurus".
On the down side I have found that Lifestyles "over promises". Hence they are able to lead an inexperienced real estate investor to believe that obtaining "the lifestyle" i.e. passive cash flow is much easier than it really is. A number of the members I am personally aquainted with have purchased a large number of multi family units, however, for the most part these have been management intensive apartment projects that do not lend themselves well to absentee ownership. I know quite a few ex members who said that they were able to obtain positive cash flow from their investments, but that the passive part was a myth, that they were spending lots of time putting out fires at their properties. The truth of the matter is that Lifestyles bread and butter are C and D apartments, in these absentee management usually means profits are absent also. Further, Lifestyles tag line is that they can teach anyone enough so that anyone can be successful as an investor in real estate. My experience in the business (30 + years), has shown me that this is absolutely incorrect. Just like not everyone can be a successful surgeon, airline pilot, or major league baseball player, not everyone can be a successful investor. Better to find out if you have the capacity for success in real estate before you invest your money, find out if any of the ingedients you might be missing are obtainable and then figure out if they can cost effectively be obtained.
Jody, Lifestyles may very well work for you in your ambition for real estate investment success. Lifestyles is certainly a much better choice than most of the other so called guru or mentorship programs. However, I think you are currently suffering from myopic vision, seeing only the positive and not the negative. I'm afraid the tone of your posts are similiar to those of new multi level (network) marketing recruits, i.e. Amway, or whatever their name is this month. It sounds like an almost religious feverence, Del is a deity whose only purpose is to help people, the mentors at lifestyle do it to give back, not the money, etc. The truth is Lifestyles is a business like any other business, despite what they may claim or it's membership wants to believe, they perform their service for the same reason we all work , THE MONEY.
155 Replies
Everyone needs to tone it down. Anymore insults, nastiness from ANYONE here and its a wrap.
Capiche?
capiche.
i just don't understand the animosity....
we got folks talkin' about ponzi schemes and amway style of MLM.
shoot, if this was a ponzi scheme, wouldn't a college or university be the same thing? i don't see folks after six months in college making real money.
again, i can only answer to what i've seen at LU. i can't and won't make anything up. there's folks there at LU who have made quite a bit of $$ and have shared their ideas. but at the moment, i'm not one of those people.
i have nothing to sell or capitalize on with BP.
- Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes17y
RV,
The reason that the experienced investors have raised questions is that this entire thread has looked like a dog and pony show. If you'll go back to the first few posts, you'll see that almost everyone who posted only had a few posts. This is an all too familiar marketing ploy that is utilized by various "gurus" in an effort to drive traffic to their site and their business.
Here's how it works. Someone new comes to the forum and asks a question about the "guru's" program. Then, another new poster arrives to answer the question, saying that the program is valid. Sometimes, several newbies appear to sing their praises of the program. The problem is that none of them have actually done any deals or done ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT in real estate. It's all just a scam to drive unsuspecting newbies to the guru, where they can be fleeced!
Now, when you look back at this thread, you'll see that it fits that marketing model. Furthermore, we finally discovered that this program costs $10K!!!! OUCH!
It appears to me that there are about 100 scammers for every person that actually makes money in real estate! Caveat emptor!
Mike
alright Mike. i see what you're saying now. good post.
notice carefully, i haven't sung ANYone's praises. my introductory post clearly points out, "hey i'm a LU member, what questions do you have and i'll answer to the best of my ability".
plain and simple. and off come the gloves!!! LOL
catfight!! catfight!!
get your mind off the 10grand for a moment because it is NOT required to be a member. repeat, NOT required to be a member. see? now THAT (the $10K thing) came from previous "drive by" posts on this thread. just as you claim about folks who "sing the praises of said guru" and leave. the VERY SAME thing happened HERE. all we pretty much read was "hey i saw where "they" charge 10 grand" and then that poster disappeared. Charles Stuller posted that in JANUARY and you guys ran with that comment!!!
let's be clear on another thing i've noticed about LU. it's always recommend that anyone interested in RE mentoring look up REIA and find a "club" you feel comfortable. LU will be the first to tell you, "if not us, find someone who can mentor you." that's hardly a sales pitch.
also, i've stated earlier, i have an option on a home just this week. if the deal goes through, again i can personally opine about what i did.
i actually found Bigger Pockets by accident because i was looking for an article on Del.
i'm hoping you guys will put the claws away for now. ain't scared of ya.....just wanna git along.
feel free to communicate and ask anything. there might be some things i say wrong but i hope i can somehow put across what i'm trying to say.
"welcome to Bigger Pockets"...i'll reach across and welcome myself.
welcome indeed.
.....update.....
closed on my FIRST house on 30 april....!!!
rental comps are in the $1200 to $1500 range
sales comps are in the $125K to $155K range
i paid $90K
rehab will consist of carpet/paint
should be right under $5000- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Wow. Looks like I really stirred the pot when I mentioned the three tiered membership program and the costs associated with the highest tier. I was really just looking for some info from anyone who has been successful with Del's program.
Interesting that the only people responding to this thread are either not involved at all with LU and are totally against it or the one other guy who is new like me that is now showing some success using the LU mentoring program.
I too have now written 8 contracts and not had any of my offers accepted. I was either outbid or have not yet heard back from them.
By the way R.V. congrats on the house. I hope you rent it quickly. Hopefully my first one will come soon.
- Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2009 · 40 posts · 9 votes17y
Congrads RV on your purchase. Great Job. Charles keep writting those offers. You can always call up to Lifestyles if you need some tips on writing a more attractive offer.
Okay guys. I am a member of Lifestyles. Started there in 2001 when an investor I knew that owned over 80 sf houses told me to go there and become a member. He wouldnt answer any questions from me until I was active with them. So I joined and attend the 2 day class. Full of great information. "the map" to investing buy and hold in sf. I loved the class and attend the other events they had. I also joined the RICH club of Houston. I went out and started buying, flippin, and wholesaling. In 2005 I wanted to go back to work after staying home with 2 boys from losing my job the year before. Lifestyles had an opening I applied and got the job. Needless to say I am the one that got the good vendor list together for our group of members and radio listners. Thanks to the previous poster..
I have worked there since 2005 and love helping people and giving back. Our group is big on giving people all the tools to move forward and write offers at any level of membership. We have a large qualified staff to service the members and assist with everything. We are all investors in the market with consult in.
As with most things in life you get what you make out of it. If you dont call in and ask questions, if you dont go to the classes or watch the online videos no you are not going to do well. If you use the tools and services that are provided to you then you will have a much better success ratio.
I am here for any questions and concerns. Lifestyles and real estate investing has changed my life.Have a great day and get out and buy some real estate.
Natalie - Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes17y
So Natalie, what you're telling us is that you were so successful with the real estate investing that you had to get a job! Not really a ringing endorsement of the training. LOL!
Mike
- Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2009 · 40 posts · 9 votes17y
Mike,
I hear what your saying other ppl might be thinking the same thing. When i was stying home with my kiddos it didnt happen by choice. So i was fired, pregnant all at the same time. So that is when I flipped, wholesaled, etc... I choose to go back to work. Stay home with 2 boys under 3 and see how quickly you need adult interaction... They are good kids but I wanted more, quicker. So I did go back but i was tainted. Not exactly good employee material after owning and doing real estate on the side. So there were few places I would be happy with a "job". Needless to say I was fortunate enough to get hired at Lifestyles. Since then my knowledge base and portfolio has grown not to mention my contact database. I do not have to work now. I would like for my husband to quit... he is a police officer. So we are in a stale mate right now. So technically it really isnt a "job" plus I really enojoy helping ppl. Real estate is life changing any where you get the information as long as it is from successful investors....
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
OK, I wasn't going to post until this project completed, but as there has been some activity on this thread, I will chime in once again.
I had one offer accepted, but once I went through and found out the true costs involved in both rehab and financing the deal no longer made sense and I terminated the contract.
I have a second deal that is in work. it's a $100K house for $75K and no rehab needed, just minor cleaning and a light bulb or two. It could rent for $1200, but more probably around $1150. That puts my monthly cash flow at about $500.
A third deal is also in the works, verbally accepted, just waiting for the signed contract. It is also a $100K house, but this one was for $85K with renters already in place at $1200/mo. This one too will be about $500 monthly cash flow.
Both houses were built in 2006. I am looking at less than $40K out of pocket and a 30% COCR with about $40K in captured equity.
Both are being done with conventional 30-yr mortgages and 20% down. Hopefully in 6 months or so we will be able to do a cash-out refi, get most of our cash out, and do it again.
I have watched almost every single-family video offered at LU and this is some really good info. I've been to several classes live and some guest speaker nights. I've been in and spoken with you Natalie, and with mentors and agents. As with anything else there are always a few bad apples in each bushel, but once I found the right people, I seem to have had much more success.
I'll update when the cash begins to flow.
- Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes17y
Those deals are OK, but aren't nearly as good as you think. If that's what these guys are teaching, that's a shame.
Read in the Rental Property forum about the reality of expenses. Expenses DO NOT equal rent - PITI, no matter how many people tell you they do.
Rent: $1150
Expenses: $575
NOI: $575
Payment: $379 ($60K loan amount, 30 year, 6.5%)
Cash flow: $196
Cash on cash return: 16%Not a bad deal, but not a 30% cash on cash return, either.
This deal does pass the basic analysis:
Payment: $474 ($75K, 6.5%, 30 years)
Cash flow: $101This is a good deal. Just don't expect it to put $500 in your pocket every month.
If you buy a house for $75K that needs no work at all, guess what. Its worth $75K. If you buy a dumper and do some work on it, you can raise the value more than you invest. But if you do nothing, a new lender is going to be pretty skeptical about a new value 33% higher than what you paid six months earlier. Even just doing paint and carpets will still result in a lengthy refinance process.
Let us know how this plays out.
- Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes17y
Not a ringing endorsement of the training when you don't even understand the basics of the business!!!
Mike
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Jon,
To what expenses do you refer when you call out $575 in monthly expenses?
My Cash flow calculations:
Monthly rent $1,150
Note payment (30 yr) ($365)
Property taxes ($165)
Property insurance ($53)
Home Warranty ($29)
HOA monthly ($29)
Monthly cashflow $508What am I missing?
This is a bank owned property that was foreclosed on. They do not sell properties at market price. They sell quickly at what they can get at auction. The last one of these houses to sell owner to owner sold last month at $99,900. It was no different than my house once my house gets cleaned.
If I was a flipper, then this would not be a good deal, because you're right, it would be hard for someone to get a loan for 33% more than what the house last sold for less then 6 months prior. My focus is on the golden egg and not the goose. The $500 cash flow is the real prize, and when I do choose to sell in 5-10 years, then I will, barring too much negative government intervention, reap the benefits of $100K plus appreciation plus principal paid down.
What expenses am I missing?
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Originally posted by MikeOH:
I haven't closed yet. What am I missing. Help me out.
- Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes17y
What are you missing?
Vacancy - you're not going to collect the scheduled rent every month.
Maintenance - good luck getting anything out of the home warranty. Plus most of the maintenance will be caused by tenants.
Property management - maybe you do this yourself. If you pay someone, it will be at least 10% of collected rents, plus fees to fill vacancies
Advertising
Capital items - Eventually, this property WILL need a roof and a furnance. Maybe a sewer line or major plumbing repairs. If you own one property for three years, maybe you get to avoid these. If you own 20 properties, you'll be buying a roof or furnace (or several) EVERY year.
Eviction - legal and admin fees associated with doing the eviction. Figure a couple of months of a tenant in place and not paying before you get this completed.
Major tenant damage - If you have a bunch of rentals for a while, you will eventually get one trashed. That could happen with a single property after only a few months.
Utilities and property care while its vacant. The grass still has to be cut when its empty.
Termites and termite certifications.
I see you have an HOA. I though this was a SFH, but I'm familiar with (and loathe) Houston HOAs. I lived there from 1982 until 1995. HOAs have a way of having special assessments.Those are some of the things you're missing.
Cash flow = rent - PITI === A BIG LIE.
"What am I missing?"
Property management--even if you do it yourself it is a real cost. In fact it may "cost" you more to do it yourself.
Repairs
Maintenance
Capital improvements or repairs--I had an AC go out today. It's 103', I have to get it replaced today
Vacancies
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Vacancy - $50 below market rent = minimized vacancy. Other LU members that I have talked with are seeing rentals in less than 2 weeks.
Maintenance - Minor Maintenance is paid for, per the lease, by the tenant. Major maintenance is covered by the Home Warranty. In Houston, property owners have had good success with getting repairs done by the Home Warranty.
Property management - Do it myself
Advertising - $20 for a green sheet ad and $5 for a yard sign once a year at most. Craig's List is free.
Capital items - The house is three years old. I'll be out before any of this stuff is needed.
Eviction - Texas is very friendly to landlords and evictions happen in less than a month. However, proper tenant screening can minimize the need for eviction.
Major tenant damage - Covered by insurance. Again proper tenant screening can minimize this risk.
Utilities and property care while its vacant. - The yard is taken care of by the HOA. Minimal vacancy = minimal utilities.
Termites and termite certifications. - Never had an issue, but could happen some day.
I see you have an HOA. - Most SFH neighborhoods in Houston are governed by an HOA.
Cash flow = rent - PITI === A BIG LIE. True....
Cash flow = (rent * 50%) - PITI is an even bigger lie.Yes, I anticipate there will be some unforeseen expenses, but to think that they will be almost $600 a month seems a little excessive.
I think I have everything covered, but we'll see what happens.
- Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes17y
That's because you're a newbie with no experience and you don't have a clue about the real world expenses. I have dozens of rentals and I can tell you for a fact that all of the real world expenses add up to about 50% over time and/or a large number of units.
Operating expenses include taxes, insurance, vacancy, management (even if you do it yourself), maintenance (even if the building was just built yesterday), utilities (even if only during vacancies), legal fees, entity maintenance, evictions, advertising, damage done by tenants in excess of the security deposit (and NO, this is not covered by insurance), HOA fees, lawsuits, capital expenses (not technically an operating expense), office expenses, etc, etc, etc. I could go on and on and on. If you think that theses expenses don't apply to you, YOU'RE IN FANTASY LAND!
The big question is why you didn't learn this in that expensive training???
Mike Charles, you should be OK on this deal, but in June of 2009 you can do better. If you stay at this, you will get better and better buys with your growing experience and knowledge. And you do make your money on the buy side, but it is less important if you are going to hold long-term.
What is the single most valuable thing you've gotten out of LU?
- Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes17y
The correct formula is:
cash flow = rent * 50% - P&I
Read those sticky threads in the Rental Property forum. You're only about the 1000th person to say "expenses can't be that high". But EVERY time anyone has provided any real data, that figure has been verified. From thousands of properties (read the threads!) it has been shown to be true.
You may be lucky with a property and have much lower expenses. You may be unlucky and have much higher expenses. If you're looking for a "lifestyle change", you're not going have just a few properties for a few years.
Like I say, this is a good deal, and you should do fine.
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
Charles, you should be OK on this deal, but in June of 2009 you can do better.
Thanks Jon. What kind of a deal should I be looking for? Should there be more cash flow, more equity, more rehab? What numbers would you consider "good deals" in today's market?
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
What is the single most valuable thing you've gotten out of LU?Probably the most valuable thing I've gotten as a member at LU is the association with people who are doing this and making successful. Nothing can compare to surrounding yourself with people who are successful in doing what you want to do.
The most valuable thing to me as a Preferred Investor at LU has been access to their agents. To not have to spend my time cultivating relationships with and training many real estate agents has saved me a lot of time and trouble. Having someone who knows what I am looking for and is actively looking for opportunities has helped me tremendously.
So many variables and strategies, but what I'm trying to do in DFW (similar market to Houston), is buy low enough to get a minimum of 2.5% in monthly rent. So far this year, I've been able hit that goal.
I will break my 2.5% rule for special situations, such as great location or acreage lot.- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
The correct formula is:
cash flow = rent * 50% - P&I
The problem I have with this formula is that in Houston, most rents are in the neighborhood of $1000. If your formula holds that leaves $500 for P&I. Given no cash flow this means a financed amount of about $70K. Given a reasonable cash flow of $200 leaves only $300 for P&I which equates to a financed amount about $45K. Unless you have lots of cash to through at these deals for rehab and down payments, I don't see how in Houston you can get properties for this low cost. Yet, somehow people are making money everyday renting SFHs. There is a flaw somewhere. - Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2008 · 27 posts · 5 votes17y
Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
So many variables and strategies, but what I'm trying to do in DFW (similar market to Houston), is buy low enough to get a minimum of 2.5% in monthly rent. So far this year, I've been able hit that goal.
I will break my 2.5% rule for special situations, such as great location or acreage lot.
2.5% of price, financed amount, price + rehab, Total cost, or cash-out-of-pocket?
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