real or fake josh cantwell,cody sperber scott yancey
Junction City, KS · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 1 vote
real or fake josh cantwell,cody sperber scott yancey
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Originally posted by @Ronald Barthelus:
It's amazing that if you were to google the complaints on Apple , Honda , McDonald's some of the major company's in their market, thousands of customers have their complaints unresolved or very unsatisfied.
I don't know anyone who buys an Apple iPhone, but doesn't figure out how to use it. I don't know anyone who buys a Honda, but can't drive it. I don't know anyone who buys McDonald's, but then doesn't eat it.
But, I do know plenty of people who pay for high-priced education and then never do a deal. Why I'm not saying they don't have the right to pay the high prices (and the educators most certainly have the right to charge high prices), the issue is that these novice investors don't realize that the likelihood of them never doing a deal -- because many of these students never do a deal -- is very high.
Do these gurus offer a guarantee that their students will be able to use their product (i.e., do a deal)? Do they offer a money-back guarantee? If not, why not?
If you're an educator promising to help your students do deals, why wouldn't you give them a guarantee they'll do deals and make money? I'm sure you're thinking, "It takes work on the part of the student, and the teacher can't make the student work!" In that case, the teacher needs to do a better job of weeding out the students who are unlikely to put in the time and effort it takes to be successful.
I've mentored (for free) about a half-dozen people -- every single one of them has done deals. Most of them have done 10+ deals, and the rest will likely get there at some point soon. It's not because I'm an amazing teacher -- it's because I'm very selective about the people I mentor, and I know they're going to be successful, even if I don't do a great job teaching them.
If I can weed out those who are unlikely to ever to a deal, why can't the so-called gurus? I'll tell you why -- because they care more about taking their student's money than they do about having their students be successful. They'll happily take money from someone who has nearly 0% chance of doing deals.
I've heard of one or two gurus who offer an unconditional money-back guarantee -- they recognize that if the students don't do deals, it's the teacher's fault as much as the student's fault. Do the gurus being discussed in this thread offer that?
44 Replies
- Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
All the guys started out real but grew to a big marketing machine fueled by the promise of magic documents or systems that make you believe you can do something in real estate that has not been done before. It starts with an infomercial then a book then a seminar then a big expensive new next level
- Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
First off... No need to SHOUT.
Secondly... You're better off finding a local mentor. Or really just hanging out around here and asking questions. Some people like paying 15k and the hype/excitement. I prefer to just close deals!
- Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Alfred Swindell:
BEFORE I FORK OVER MY HARD MONEY I WANT TO KNOW IF THESE PEOPLE ARE REAL OR ARE THEY JUST TRYING TO GET MONEY FROM US SOMEBODY TELL ME WHO IS REAL AND SHOULD I INVEST IN HOUSE FLIPPING
1 all caps is "shouting"
2. Buy the books by
Best money spent for learning wholesaling
- Superintendent · Gainesville, GA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 35 votes10y
If you want to flip save your money for actually doing flips not taking guru courses. Buy J. Scotts book on flipping houses right here on BP, listen to all the podcast on flipping right here on BP for free. Tons of information here for free "without all the hype"
- Junction City, KS · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 1 vote10y
I than you all for your answers and will use the info i got about j scott money is very hard to come by these days and i cant see myself ripping off other folks like us its not fair to promise the unreal and steal form folks so thank you and will take baby steps with new adventure into house flipping.
- Sales Consultant · Durham, NC · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 2 votes10y
I love Bigger Pockets. I got hold of the best advise right here on BP and that is it's better to use your hard earned cash on a deal and learn from it than to invest in someone else's material. I have met some investors who spent thousands of dollars on programs that did not bring deals. I suggest you ask your questions for free on BP and also go to local REIA s and network there and ask questions. This is an industry where investors are willing to help others.
- Superintendent · Gainesville, GA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 35 votes10y
That @Alfred Swindell is the right attitude, congratulations. Read everything you can on j. scott's journey in REI and check out his website 123flip.com. He has succeeded in REI through flipping (and other aspects of REI) while practicing high moral standards. Woe pack up the bread basket, that sounds like a man crush or something, it's not hahaha
Really not just him, he's just the one I have read the most on, but there are thousands of successful people on this site in any facet of REI you would like to do. Really great individuals here giving back to REI and the funny thing is they really don't have too. But they are and for free, I for one am very grateful. You originally asked about which guru's were legit, well you found a whole lot of them here for free. Good Luck
- Morrisville, NC · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote10y
It's amazing that if you were to google the complaints on Apple , Honda , McDonald's some of the major company's in their market, thousands of customers have their complaints unresolved or very unsatisfied. I realize that they're not asking for thousands of dollars for a perceived system but if you count the number of times that we've ever gone through fast food (if you do, i know plenty who don't) we spend the money and it only seems okay cuz it's cheap and we perceive it to have the value we want to make a purchase. Apple phones are $800 and $900 and we fork over the money for that and we kind of dont think about it at all. You have to be able to invest in yourself... Full disclosure, I have paid and used Josh's system, not cause I have drunk the kool aid, I believe in mentorship's. I realize until you've actually use them you might not know unless someone who has used them will tell you otherwise, but Josh Cantwell is for real and so is his product and I've done others. Honestly one of the things that I find is that even if you spend the money a lot of times people don't take the actions that are recommended in order to make things happen and have the system work for them. I will say emphatically there are no magic potions and no silver bullet you do the system, you work the system it does have results but everything is not for everyone and some take more time than others. Totally agree with you doing your due diligence, it's a must, there is a lot of junk out there. You definitely have to find what works for you and your budget.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Davie, FL · Member since 2015 · 18 posts · 6 votes10y
Originally posted by @Alfred Swindell:
I than you all for your answers and will use the info i got about j scott money is very hard to come by these days and i cant see myself ripping off other folks like us its not fair to promise the unreal and steal form folks so thank you and will take baby steps with new adventure into house flipping.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Davie, FL · Member since 2015 · 18 posts · 6 votes10y
I bought Cody Speaker the ever Investor system and added the 99.00/ month fast trac trial. I cancelled the trial and never heard from them again. Before that they were calling me every week checkingredients on me. Most of these programs are driven by up-selling. The best thing to do is find a menter at a REI meeting.
Originally posted by @Ronald Barthelus:
It's amazing that if you were to google the complaints on Apple , Honda , McDonald's some of the major company's in their market, thousands of customers have their complaints unresolved or very unsatisfied.
I don't know anyone who buys an Apple iPhone, but doesn't figure out how to use it. I don't know anyone who buys a Honda, but can't drive it. I don't know anyone who buys McDonald's, but then doesn't eat it.
But, I do know plenty of people who pay for high-priced education and then never do a deal. Why I'm not saying they don't have the right to pay the high prices (and the educators most certainly have the right to charge high prices), the issue is that these novice investors don't realize that the likelihood of them never doing a deal -- because many of these students never do a deal -- is very high.
Do these gurus offer a guarantee that their students will be able to use their product (i.e., do a deal)? Do they offer a money-back guarantee? If not, why not?
If you're an educator promising to help your students do deals, why wouldn't you give them a guarantee they'll do deals and make money? I'm sure you're thinking, "It takes work on the part of the student, and the teacher can't make the student work!" In that case, the teacher needs to do a better job of weeding out the students who are unlikely to put in the time and effort it takes to be successful.
I've mentored (for free) about a half-dozen people -- every single one of them has done deals. Most of them have done 10+ deals, and the rest will likely get there at some point soon. It's not because I'm an amazing teacher -- it's because I'm very selective about the people I mentor, and I know they're going to be successful, even if I don't do a great job teaching them.
If I can weed out those who are unlikely to ever to a deal, why can't the so-called gurus? I'll tell you why -- because they care more about taking their student's money than they do about having their students be successful. They'll happily take money from someone who has nearly 0% chance of doing deals.
I've heard of one or two gurus who offer an unconditional money-back guarantee -- they recognize that if the students don't do deals, it's the teacher's fault as much as the student's fault. Do the gurus being discussed in this thread offer that?
- Morrisville, NC · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote10y
I applaud your business model and it's success, keep doing what you do. You observed a need in the market to help novices that provides mentorship at no cost, I'm with that. As I mentioned there is alot of junk out there and one should do their due diligence to determine what works for them, if they can get advice from individuals like yourself, that's a great benefit. I can't comment on anything specific about your methods and what you offer since I have not utilized it.
Full disclosure was my statement about the product I have used and the value it provided. I was satisfied with their guarantees and what they offered. Some people do require guarantees to invest in these programs. They're only as good as the company and the character of the people offering them. It goes both ways though, there are many free products and books that offer only but so much but they don't fill in the gaps. Which leave novices guessing making mistakes or losing lots of money. I can't determine the premium that should be paid to walk through that process for a novice who doesn't want to fail in their transactions going it alone.
Although we may not agree with the cost one "guru" charges, others may be fine with it. Don't like it, then we educate others of the alternatives (which you have done, I certainly know I have).
I recommended research, which only goes but so far besides a recommendation from others who have used them (experienced social proof). Websites, webinars, marketing, SEO can make company's look credible. Again I could only speak for the ones I used.
- Augusta, GA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes10y
I personally am not a veteran investor nor have i closed on my first deal yet. I will soon without a doubt! I seen the posted debate an read the comments an figured my response was needed or should be heard due to my recent inquiries an valuable information i have recieved from two of the so called "gurus" which i would believe to be an understatement definitely.For one it has been my goal an dream to become an active an successfull real estate investor for several years. I have been putting it off for the "right time"certain things have held me back from persuing my dream. I have said i would be a millionaire oneday and i will. Over the last decade i have been to several seminars ordered a few packages an requested information from different gurus an have been dissapointed. Some people arent able to aquire the capital required or needed for there sought after investment. Cody Sperber offers to teach technique called wholesaling which i knew nothing about until recently which is a good way to get your foot in the door an i have heard that technique from a few different wholesale investers and i must say he lays it out much easier an understandable than anyone else in my oponion a good educator on the subject. Josh Cantwell i just recently stumbled across as his approach to gaining wealth in real estate is much different involving fix an flip deals. Very knowledgeable an from what i see a good educator as well. Depending on the type of time an effort you apply an the knowledge you seek an take in to put in to action will determine your success. The motivation determination an drive you personally have will be the key.As for myself i like to learn from several different successfull people not just one an finally decided there is never a perfect time taking action now.Ill follow up with a success story soon.Determined failure is not an option. Have a blessed sunday!
Originally posted by @Ronald Barthelus:
I was satisfied with their guarantees...
Can you provide more detail on what guarantees they offered?
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Is Northwestern Chicago a good university? I'd say it is.
Do they give you a guarantee that with your Graduate Degree in Finance, you'll be successful? No.
Is there any guarantee you'll get a job in finance....or any job for that matter? No.
Any guarantee that you can only learn finance at their school? Again, no.
Do they give you your money back if you fail a class? I don't think, but I never failed.
When Johnny turns 18 and the high school kicks him out in the 10th grade, does the school system cut him a check for what he and his parents spent saying, sorry, you're too dumb to learn? No again, I'm sure of it.
Does any real estate school give your money back if you can't pass the test, no, but they may give more instruction, have you keep taking the test and they might beat a dead horse if they have to, but I don't know of one that gives you all of your money back.
Now, if we have a mentor/coach type with some guarantee, they usually have other conditions, bring in leads, go out with them, do deals together until they do get a deal to split, that's just another angle, you're going to pay for it.
Can you actually be in a business and turn an applicant away without discrimination? If you're truly a school oriented entity, you can based on academics, but not from a lack of experience. Can you pick who you go into business with together? Absolutely!
I believe the Chinese tell parents what their child will be doing as a vocation, we don't do that here, everyone gets a shot at it. If your teacher won't take you and denies the opportunity, are they giving the student a fair shot? No, I don't think so.
Does Josh return your pro account membership on BP if you fail to learn something, make a deal or BP doesn't help you find a deal? Don't know, ask him, but I really doubt it!
People shouldn't buy things they don't need, the more expensive it is for them the more they need to understand if they really need it or not, at least be prudent. :)
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes10y
The reality is deals are hard to find for any investor. After so many deals these types of companies know 2 things.
1. It's easier to sell on PAST SUCCESS with education and training materials.
2. By leveraging people spread out all over the U.S. they increase their chances of working less and partnering with newbies who put in the hard work to find a deal.
The education business is what they are in. If everyone was told how hard something was they would not go for the up sell. I am talking in generalities and not a specific company.
- Professional · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 119 posts · 37 votes10y
"but Josh Cantwell is for real"......
Ask his old business partner, Jeff Watson, if he feels this way. They all cross promote each others programs. It is a numbers game for them (Gurus/Mentors/Coaches) and I have yet to see one of the them "teach/instruct" on to how to properly conduct a real estate transaction, whether it is a wholesale or a purchase.
@J Scott seems to have lot of integrity and appears to understand the problems with the "Gurus/Mentors/Coaches" programs marketed to the newbies and those wanting to enter into REI. Beg, plead and/or bribe him to mentor you!
- Appraiser · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 9 votes10y
If you buy a Ferrari and it just sets in your garage will they pay you because you choose not to drive it? Bottom line is these guys got were they are for a reason, and if you want to get there you have to buy in and not only that but have the determination to succeed. And thats on no one but yourself. Do your homework and find one who fits your needs or wants and study up. That being said also use bp and try to link up with educated mentors in your area. If you want it bad enough you will get it you just have to be willing to put in the work. Good luck!
Originally posted by @Jerry Houk:
If you buy a Ferrari and it just sets in your garage will they pay you because you choose not to drive it?
Sorry, but that's a bad analogy. Ferrari makes a product, not an educational service.
A better analogy would be if Ferrari advertised that anyone who bought a car would learn to become a successful race car driver.
- Appraiser · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 9 votes10y
If you buy the system and don't use it its the same analogy. Im not talking about learning im talking using the system like driving the car. But understand were your coming from.
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Alfred Swindell education is education... you can get it any way you want.... if you want to pay for it pay for it.. if you want it for free your at the right place..
there is nothing new in Real estate basics there are new laws for sure.. on line or a place like BP is not the place to learn the laws.. just look at any wholesaling thread :)
But one needs to have a reality check... for whatever reason and its promulgated here and with guru's there is this fascination that our industry is a no money no credit get rich industry.. and well that may be true in some rare instance's its not reality. Its how the guru's lead with their pitchs and their are books on this site that say the exact same thing the info is ALL the SAME....because that dream sells... Other wise BP would have no members if there was not the dream of real estate rich's.
Most that have succeeded in the industry has to put in some apprenticeship and or had good paying jobs and the discipline to not trash their credit and save some money so they can operate..
The success be it here or paid training is about the same... 90% or more who try fail that's just the stats. and 50% of RE agents that get licensed and want to sell real estate can't make it either... its a very tough business.. And those that succeed at it could and do succeed at virtually any business they put their mind to...
And this is all about being self employed not all can do that many folks can only succeed as a paid employee.
If by your first post you say money is tight then for sure you should not go into debt you should save money...
One of my clients came from a foreign land... but he was educated hired on at a top firm to do CPA work his wife as well they were classic DINK'S... but saved and saved and starting buying rentals for cash in the down market .. and learned it form the ground up.. But did not go into debt.. so 5 years later they own some 50 homes ALL FREE AND CLEAR.. but make no mistake they had high paying jobs of the professional level .. kept their spending as low as possible sacrificed.. great credit if they need it...
Of course a lot of this was the opportunity that was 2009 to 2012 and taking action.
@J Scott when we talk about getting started in a career with guru's in the early 60s in aviation magazines it was the same way selling the dream of becoming an airline pilot.. Many tried many failed.. but I have good friend who became a United caption and he got into it by responding to that add.. with as little as 300 hours he was right seat in a 727 :) but that was the day... And you look at pilot training now it cost 30 to 60k at LEAST to them hire on with a regional to make 18 dollars an hour.. yet the kids line up for it.. And better than half the young pilots cycle out after spending all that money... because the lifestyle and dream was not what they envision it.. same thing with RE.
Originally posted by :
@J Scott seems to have lot of integrity and appears to understand the problems with the "Gurus/Mentors/Coaches" programs marketed to the newbies and those wanting to enter into REI. Beg, plead and/or bribe him to mentor you!
I just wrote a long explanation of why the numbers for being an ethical guru don't work...but I hit the wrong button and lost my post before I finished...
I'll write it up again at some point, but the takeaway is that the numbers in the guru business just don't work, unless:
1. You're churning out a lot of unsuccessful investors; or
2. You're not a successful investor yourself
And based on my experience with the high-priced gurus, they all fit into one (or both) of these categories...
Originally posted by @Jerry Houk:
If you buy the system and don't use it its the same analogy. Im not talking about learning im talking using the system like driving the car. But understand were your coming from.
For the most part, these high-priced gurus are selling coaching/mentoring, not a one-sized-fits-all system that you purchase and use at your own pace.
I have no issue with a fixed-priced system that doesn't attempt to upsell to more expensive coaching services, but most of these guys are making the bulk of their money in the coaching/mentoring space, not the product space.
Originally posted by :
@J Scott when we talk about getting started in a career with guru's in the early 60s in aviation magazines it was the same way selling the dream of becoming an airline pilot.. Many tried many failed.. but I have good friend who became a United caption and he got into it by responding to that add.. with as little as 300 hours he was right seat in a 727 :) but that was the day... And you look at pilot training now it cost 30 to 60k at LEAST to them hire on with a regional to make 18 dollars an hour.. yet the kids line up for it.. And better than half the young pilots cycle out after spending all that money... because the lifestyle and dream was not what they envision it.. same thing with RE.
Hey, I've spent a ridiculous amount of money on getting my pilot's license...that was money well spent!!! :-)
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