Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes
opps meant to put "FORTUNE Builders"
I just left the Fortune Builders Seminar in New Orleans, La. It was the free 2 hour seminar. I did some quick research before hand to find out how much the classes would be that they were going to offer at the end (no one does anything for free and you have to be naive to think something can be learned well in a couple hours.) so I was well aware that there was going to be an "up sell" involved. $197 seemed like a reasonable amount of money so I figured I would attend the free seminar and if I liked what they were saying and if it looked like there would be value in learning their system I would spend the $197 to do the 3 day class.
My background: I have very little experience in flipping houses. I was the investor side of a partnership with a contractor, building spec homes until about 4 years. After we stopped building I started buying properties at tax sales. The tax sales only happen once a year so I am looking for something else real estate related that I can do year round. While I have a general knowledge in real estate, I don't know much about REO's, foreclosures or wholesaling so I'm thinking their course would be a good foundation for me to build on. With 3 full days of classes I hope I learn a few things.
Has anyone else attended one of Than Merrill's 3 day classes? I hear the next up sell is the mentor program for $40,000.
Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
14y
I think its great when someone can recognize they need the expert advice from someone offering coaching. Coaching can be great but costly. If someone wants someone to take them by the hand and teach them that should come with a price, but how much is that time worth? There is no question that they ( Fortune Builders ) know what they are doing but personally, when you pay $25k-$40k for coaching to have a few 30 minute calls per week for x amount of months, that to me is not real coaching. I tell you what, here are 2 bits of free advice from me that a certain late night infomercial scammer is charging $3,500 for:
Investor · Statewide, MO · Member since 2011 · 814 posts · 425 votes
13y
I attended a local seminar for the 3 day theatrics. It was such a sucker fest for newbies. It was 95% sell, 5% content. Day 3 was "the advanced" day. I walked out after 2 hours, picking up 5-10 minutes of content, inbetween suttle and non suttle selling, over and over again. It was really creepy how they had schills sitting at the back of the room, eyeballing all of the attendees. I felt so bad for the poor newbies that were taking it all, hook, line and sinker.
Real Estate Investor · Whittier, CA · Member since 2012 · 92 posts · 19 votes
13y
If you're going to spend $25,000 so they can do all your mail outs and marketing and so on, you may as well use the money to buy an investment property from those companies that buy, rehab, rent and manage them for you. Both scenarios you get charged for everything you don't do yourself.
I know they pressure you with limited space available and time constraints but deals will always be there. Get your education at a slower much cheaper pace and then invest your $25,000 wisely.
Real Estate Professional · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2010 · 608 posts · 163 votes
13y
Originally posted by Joel Owens:
The SECRET is there is NO SECRET ! Getting going with anything in life is boring in the beginning because you are setting the foundation and basics for long term success.
This is so true. As soon as one stops looking for "the letter" or "the course" that will make you successful, you are on your way. Now there can be good letters, bad letters and everything in between but no secret letter or course. As soon as I stopped looking for the magic bullet, things became easier for me.
Honestly read the entire marketing topic and start to slowly spend some money on marketing. Have a plan. There is good marketing advice in the Wholesaling topic as well.
Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2012 · 12 posts · 7 votes
13y
Oh me oh my. Yes I dealt with fortune builders. Let me start out by saying I was someone's guest and was very disappointed for them to pay even $199 for foolish, sells hype. I'm sure if your have the money they may teach you something you can learn in a book and with a side by side mentor. You would probably get more from investing that 25k with an investor and divide profits.
I did learn new things about wholesaling, but the rest was selling their mastery program after the first day. Several people didn't return by the 3rd day. The thing I found even more interesting was how the moods and attitude changed toward those who wasn't interesting in shelling out 25k and the so called guru group became a rude crew.
My colleague actually called and got a refund because it was that bad and the sold it as an investor training course which was hardly that.
I will say this. I did a three day for 199 with rich dad and got more than my money's worth. They trained every day as promised and even gave a bonus in asset protection. Of course they were selling their extra training and software as well but it was a much better offer than fortune builder, neverthess, I feel shadowing, networking, and stay current is the best teacher and didn't buy theirs either although I am a student and study their concepts with all the free material and training that Came with the $199. Their rss software is great tht my friend did purchase for like $1497.
Accountant · Spring, TX · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 0 votes
13y
I am going to this Seminar on Thurs 17th of Jan. in The Woodlands Tx.!! Looking forward to it but I am very Motivated and want to Succeed at Wholesale and Flipping maybe Investing later but I want to do it correctly and I'm really searching high and low for a Mentor who knows Wholesale and is an Investor because I've read lots of forums on how wholesalers don't do things right and it upsets the Investors, so I'm really wanting someone or some people to teach me the correct way so we both can benefit. I think more Investors should take the time to help Newbies and explain exactly what they want therefore there will be no reason for them to complain. So if you know of anyone in the Houston Tx area willing to Coach me please contact me ASAP Please !! Sincerely a very dedicated and Honest Newbie.
Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2010 · 9 posts · 0 votes
13y
It hasn't been often in my life that I've felt like a sucker and would say "they saw me coming", but after shellling out $7k for the FortuneBuilders JumpStart program, I can say "they saw me coming" and "I'm smarter than that." Went to the $200 3-day pitchfest ("Learn how to make billions of dollars working 20 minutes a week investing in real-estate right now in your own backyard!"). There were one or two nuggets given that I could of got off BP for free in 5 minutes. Declined the special semiar pricing of $25k for the "Mastery" program. Couple of weeks later, got the hard sell over the phone for the Jumpstart. When pressed for how much availble credit we had, and said about $7k, and the price was magically $7k. Basically to teach us how to "wholesale for fast cash" so we could then use that cash to pay the full $40k for the "mastery" program. A big box of materials arrived, chock full of information about how to be a very busy and successful wholesaler in New Haven, CT - circa 2008. Lots and lots of wasted time viewing webinars recorded in 08 or 09 that actually offered little to no additional info than what was in the printed material. I mean, 2 hours or more staring at a single power point slide while Than Merrill droned on about how busy he was making money in CT and now San Diego. Everything pretty much seems to indicate that to make any actual money you need to be re-habbing.
Also fell for the "you can do this on a shoe-string budget". We said, after paying the credit card bill, we have about $200 a month for to spend on this, it was "no problem". Step 1: Spend $400/month on bandit signs. Step 2: Spend up to $150 on a website. Step 3: Spend $500/month on other marketing. The coaching calls were kind of a joke, but the guy was so nice that I didn't have the heart to tell him I what I really thought. Way more current, way cheaper (and FREE) information out there. I might try and ebay that FB crap at some point, but unfortunately I just have to chalk it up to humbling mistake that I really knew better than to make at the time. The worst part is that the information, techniques, strategies are 5+ yrs old. Not even an attempt to update for today's market, and absolutely not even remotely concerned with any kind of local conditions. There's a big deal made about the Inc 500 award, but that is only recognition for revenue-growth, not value in what's being sold.
BTW: I meet someone at the local REI who paid for the 25k for the Mastery who was doing a couple of deals, but she hadn't actually made back her investment yet, and was offering up all the same things that the experienced wholesalers, re-habbers and flippers were already: "looking for private money partners, buyers, sellers, etc."
hmmm... I probably should have given it a great review and offered it up for $3500 and get something out of it, but I couldn't do that to someone else. It would almost be worth it to study their marketing and selling techniques, and then apply that to whatever it is you might want to sell.
Residential Real Estate Agent · Mc Keesport, PA · Member since 2012 · 449 posts · 154 votes
13y
Shawn Abadie Sorry to hear about your situation Shawn. We actually contemplated forking out the $25K at the 3-day seminar. We didn't, and we started to get the same calls you did... sales calls from salespeople fishing for money.
That's really what turned me off to Fortune Builders. [b]They vehemently preach the importance of taking action but in reality all of their new members could save themselves around $21,000 by procrastinating. I could say more about that point but I don't think any person with the faculty of reason would need elaboration.
Investor · The Bronx, NY · Member since 2012 · 226 posts · 44 votes
13y
I'm a FortuneBuilders mastery Student and I'm here to tell you that it's a great program. I can't imagine there being any other program better. Yes' it's expensive but worth every penny and then some. I've been to 2 of there boot camps already and they're awesome.
Rental Property Investor · Tucker, GA · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 1 vote
11y
I've been to a few training seminars with some of the gurus like Robert Kiyosaki, Robert Allen, and recently Than Merrill. I have to say that the modules are all the same. First they never show up, they have trainers. Second, the only information they give is the information they offer in their training programs that's way too expensive. Third, the training program sucks itself. I received great information that could be outdated next year with no support to go out and take action. All I received was a 1800 number and an email address. I really gave up on these gurus. But I have to let you guys know that I did find and investing mentorship training company that I think no one knows about yet. Man these guys are awesome. Its an entire community built around the training. My coaches and mentors actually held my hand with my very first deal. They also have a mastermind group were they go out and do different deals together. Fix and flip isn't the only strategy they teach. They teach wholesaling, lease/option, tax liens, deeds, and notes, short sales, and even credit repair. The program cost but it is a great investment. You could finance the training which is great. [SOLICITATION REMOVED BY MOD - J SCOTT]
But I have to let you guys know that I did find and investing mentorship training company that I think no one knows about yet. Man these guys are awesome. Its an entire community built around the training. My coaches and mentors actually held my hand with my very first deal. They also have a mastermind group were they go out and do different deals together. Fix and flip isn't the only strategy they teach. They teach wholesaling, lease/option, tax liens, deeds, and notes, short sales, and even credit repair. The program cost but it is a great investment.
Given that this is your first and only post here, I'm going to assume that you're hyping your own program (or one owned by a friend of yours). But, if you truly believe in it, why not provide the name, website and cost of the program here so that others who are familiar with it can provide their experiences and feedback (and so that others can ask questions publicly)?
Rental Property Investor · Tucker, GA · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 1 vote
11y
Well you know what they say about assuming! ;)
I would love to share the company info but it's a private company and only way for someone to get involved is through association. I've been through the training and seminars and gain nothing from them. I'm only sharing what worked for me, reaching out to people who could relate. No hype at all. But thanks though.
I would love to share the company info but it's a private company and only way for someone to get involved is through association. I've been through the training and seminars and gain nothing from them. I'm only sharing what worked for me, reaching out to people who could relate. No hype at all. But thanks though.
There are no secrets on BP! Get with the program, myself like others can smell this has bad news wrote all over it
I would love to share the company info but it's a private company and only way for someone to get involved is through association. I've been through the training and seminars and gain nothing from them. I'm only sharing what worked for me, reaching out to people who could relate. No hype at all. But thanks though.
So, to summarize:
You came here to BiggerPockets for the sole purpose of bashing another training program and telling us about a new, secret nationwide program you're part of with a huge community, but that doesn't like to be publicized and the only way in is through you, someone who gains nothing from making these referrals.
Typically, as a moderator, I'd remove these types of ridiculous posts, but I think leaving this here will prove valuable to others in the future that happen to be researching you and your program. And perhaps those who run the program will see this and realize that they've put their grass roots marketing efforts in the wrong hands.
Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2014 · 105 posts · 34 votes
11y
I've taken the 3 day class. Either the second or third day, they're going to introduce their Mastery program that'll run about $25k. Next they'll create a sense of urgency saying there are only a few slots available and just because you apply, doesn't mean you will be selected. I submitted an application for kicks, was interviewed and chosen for Mastery. There are three programs introduced, I believe one is for $9k, the second is for $14k and Mastery is for $25k. The software they've developed is phenomenal. I asked if I could just go with the $14k plan and was denied!!!! LOL!!!! I was told I was wasn't a candidate for the $14k program only the Mastery Level program for $25k! I declined and they called called called!. They've hired some of the best sales people you will ever meet! So good, I almost took the bait. I asked them to never call me again. If I were a high producing investor and if $25k was a drop in the bucket I would consider it because they have some of the best systems I've seen marketed. Starting out, don't waste your money.
Rental Property Investor · Tucker, GA · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 1 vote
11y
So, to summarize:
You came here to BiggerPockets for the sole purpose of bashing another training program and telling us about a new, secret nationwide program you're part of with a huge community, but that doesn't like to be publicized and the only way in is through you, someone who gains nothing from making these referrals.
Typically, as a moderator, I'd remove these types of ridiculous posts, but I think leaving this here will prove valuable to others in the future that happen to be researching you and your program. And perhaps those who run the program will see this and realize that they've put their grass roots marketing efforts in the wrong hands.
Says the big shot investor! I've dealt
with your kind lol. Listen, if I offended you my apology. Maybe there were some exposure of your own intentions. I didn't bash anyone, those were just my experiences. I "assumed" that this forum was for the public and maybe there's someone that I could help who's been through what I've been through. For you to bash someone's perception shows that clearly the "moderator" has his own agenda.
Real Estate Investor · Florissant, MO · Member since 2014 · 53 posts · 23 votes
11y
There was a free Than Merrill 2-hour seminar here in St. Louis and it opened the door for me to believe that I could be successful in Real Estate Flipping Houses. I didn't pay the $200 for the 3-day seminar they were offering but I still went forward with my research into the industry.
It's not in my budget to put a bunch of money into training but there sure is a lot of free education here and on the internet.
If it was in my budget I would go to all the training I could in my first 12 months.
One little piece at a time and I will finish that elephant off.
Says the big shot investor! I've dealt with your kind lol. Listen, if I offended you my apology. Maybe there were some exposure of your own intentions. I didn't bash anyone, those were just my experiences. I "assumed" that this forum was for the public and maybe there's someone that I could help who's been through what I've been through. For you to bash someone's perception shows that clearly the "moderator" has his own agenda.
I admit it, I most certainly have my own agenda. My agenda (as both the Moderator here and long before I was a Moderator here) is to provide information, education and to help new investors figure out the most beneficial and efficient ways to learn to be successful in this industry.
In the nearly 14,000 posts I've made on this forum, I've never once said, "I can't tell you that information...it's secret and you have to contact me in order to get it." You did it in your very first post.
That tells me that it's YOUR agenda that's questionable.
Rental Property Investor · Annapolis, MD · Member since 2014 · 214 posts · 140 votes
11y
I just Googled on "Renatus Scam" this is what came up:
ComplaintCompany has misleading information on their website as well as with their employees.On April 26 I agreed to become an affiliate with Renatus after responding to an ad to learn how to become a real estate investor. After replying to the ad I was instructed to attend a 15 minute webinar about the company. The webinar was about being an affiliate, a marketer, or real estate investor. Before you can become a part of the company you have to pay $125 for the affiliate program. According to the company which is stated on their website:You share the education with others and get paid when they purchase an Essentials or A.I.T. Course.* Get paid $1,000 to $6,850 per qualified sale. * Get paid twice a week. * Checks are mailed directly to you. * To become an Affiliate and market the Renatus education courses, sign up as an Independent Marketing Affiliate (IMA) today! No purchase of any product is required for participation in the marketing opportunity.Once I become an affiliate there were weekly and daily webinars on how to make money with the company. Whenever an affiliate markets the Renatus education they only get paid $125. In order to received commissions of $1000 to $6850 the affiliate will have to purchase an education course. The education courses range from $1997 to $14997. If an affiliate purchase the $1997 they can only obtain commission of $1000 and in order to obtain commission over $1000- $6850 an affiliate would have to purchase course from $4997 to $14997. This information and compensation plan was misleading and not explained thoroughly in the beginning. On May 6 I ordered the Essentials course for $1997 only paid $399 and financed the remaining balance. When I reviewed the on-demand course I was not satisfied with the quality and up to date information provided. At this time I wish to obtain a refund of $125 for the affiliate program since the provided information is false. An affiliate can only obtain commission of $1000-6850 when they do purchase the Renatus product. Also, I wish to obtain a refund of $399 for the Essentials course.Desired SettlementI wish to obtain a refund of $125 for the affiliate program since the provided information is false. An affiliate can only obtain commission of $1000-6850 when they do purchase the Renatus product. Also, I wish to obtain a refund of $399 for the Essentials course.Business' Initial Response Contact Name and Title: *** ****** CEOContact Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXXContact Email: ***@myrenatus.comTo whom it may concern,******* ******* enrolled to become an Independent Marketing Affiliate with Renatus on 4-26-13. She attended our National Conference in Layton, Utah on 5-3-13 and spent two full days in training learning about our products and compensation plan. At this event we explained in detail what it takes to earn income with our company as an affiliate. We explained that there is no product purchase required to participate in our income opportunity. The only requirement is to pay $125 application fee which gives each affiliate the right to earn income from marketing our products. It also gives them an online business center with marketing training, commission reports, order entry tools, FAQs, Compensation plan videos and written comp plan explanations, etc. To earn income individuals must market and sell our educational products. Their first 3 sales are passed ** their trainer as compensation for training them. Once they have completed 3 sales they will earn $1,000 on each personal sale that they make there after. It doesn't matter whether they purchase a product or not. ******* has incorrectly explained how our affiliate plan works. She has attended follow up training's and webinars where it was explained in detail. I do not believe that she was mislead or confused on the matter. When I met her at our National Conference she tearfully expressed appreciation for the opportunity we have created. She lined up for a video testimonial so that she could express her excitement and share her thoughts on the company web site, she shared a room with one of our leaders at the event and expressed again how excited she was to be involved. Following the National Conference she went home to North Carolina and decided to purchase our Essentials Course. She placed the order on 5-6-13 and began to view her classes. She studied Creative acquisitions, Real Estate Red Flags, Real Estate 101 and The Deal of the Decade. All of these classes are current and up to date in content. The instructors are seasoned real estate investors. ***** ***** teaches 3 of the classes she viewed. ***** has used the techniques he teaches to acquire over 300 properties for himself. Obviously, the content is valid and applicable when acted upon. I do not believe that her complaint is accurate and that her justification for a refund has merit. She signed the IMA agreement, purchased the product a couple of weeks later, attended our National Conference, attended training's, interfaced with our marketing team and never once expressed dissatisfaction or confusion to anyone. Not once did she attempt to contact the company to voice a complaint through an email, a phone call or communicate through our online customer support system. Instead, she chose to blindside the company by filing a complaint through the Better Business Bureau. Had she been willing to contact the company we would have worked diligently to work with her. As protocal when an issue of this nature arrises I personally contact those who were involved with the customer. ****** ***** is the affiliate who worked personally with *******. The following is her email reply to my inquiry, "Good afternoon ***,I hope all is well with you and your family. ******* ******* first exposure trough *****'s online system the week of March 25th. I tried to reach out to her to follow up with her and I never received a response. As a result, I sent a recording of the follow up session where ***** details the compensation plan for her review. April 25th she sent an email expressing she was recently laid off and she wanted to pursue the opportunity available with Renatus. She joined myself and ***** *** on a three-way call to go over any additional questions she may of have at that time. Over the same weekend, i sent her the IMA and educational links and she signed up. Afterwards, she signed up and attended the national conference where she also attended ******* ******** opportunity meeting and stayed after to talk with ******* ***** regarding financing her education. The week after the conference she called and said she placed her order for her essentials. I called her a week later to make sure her classes turned on and she said they have and she begin viewing the classes. I reached out to her again on May 31st to remind her to sign up for RAIS and her response was she already did last week. To my knowledge she told me she was talking a break from Renatus because she was becoming overwhelmed with the various systems, emails and other life stressers. I do recall her mentioning that someone got a hold of her credit card information in Utah and charged purchases in California. I'm not sure if they had anything to do with her recent actions or not. Please let me know if you need anything."Best regards,****** *****I have attached the purchase agreements ******* signed. Both agreements require a signed acknowledgment of our refund policy. *******'s rescission period has passed *** she failed to follow Renatus Policy when requesting a refund. This coupled together with her failure to contact the company directly, the inaccurate statements about being misled and her reference to outdated course content, lead me to believe that this is more about financial hardship than anything else.I will not grant a refund based on her complaint, but if she will contact me personally to discuss the real issue at hand I will consider a refund if she can demonstrate financial hardship. I can be reached through our customer care number at XXX-XXX-XXXX. Ask for me and they will transfer her to my office.Sincerely,*** ******Renatus CEO - See more at: http://www.bbb.org/utah/business-reviews/real-esta...
The company is called RENATUS. I gave you the company because I like your approach. lol.
J Scott has no people skills.
Perhaps no people skills, but I know BS when I hear it...
Some of us have been around long enough to remember Renatus when it was Nouveau Riche and before that, Nouveau Riche University -- the companies have many of the same high-level people involved, including Jim Piccolo and Bob Snyder...
And regarding Nouveau Riche executives, this is from Wikipedia:
Lastly, Renatus is a network marketing company, so your claim of not being compensated by the company for your referrals is suspect, at best.
Not to mention that your LinkedIn profile indicates that you do "real estate marketing."
Says the big shot investor! I've dealt with your kind lol. Listen, if I offended you my apology. Maybe there were some exposure of your own intentions. I didn't bash anyone, those were just my experiences. I "assumed" that this forum was for the public and maybe there's someone that I could help who's been through what I've been through. For you to bash someone's perception shows that clearly the "moderator" has his own agenda.
I admit it, I most certainly have my own agenda. My agenda (as both the Moderator here and long before I was a Moderator here) is to provide information, education and to help new investors figure out the most beneficial and efficient ways to learn to be successful in this industry.
In the nearly 14,000 posts I've made on this forum, I've never once said, "I can't tell you that information...it's secret and you have to contact me in order to get it." You did it in your very first post.
That tells me that it's YOUR agenda that's questionable.
Hey I'm glad that you had some success. Tell me how many people you've "helped", you actually done deals with? And the fact that you have people from across the nation joining your forum is excellent! But how are helping people in each state? States have different rules and regulations. Unless you have some extensive knowledge on the law in each state. Ok, you use the old book, audio, and webinar/seminar modules like the other gurus. Look dude I thought this forum was for the public, I didn't know you used this forum to generate leads. If I interfered, forgive me. But don't insult my perspective! Good Luck
The company is called RENATUS. I gave you the company because I like your approach. lol.
J Scott has no people skills.
Perhaps no people skills, but I know BS when I hear it...
Some of us have been around long enough to remember Renatus when it was Nouveau Riche and before that, Nouveau Riche University -- the companies have many of the same high-level people involved, including Jim Piccolo and Bob Snyder...
And regarding Nouveau Riche executives, this is from Wikipedia:
Lastly, Renatus is a network marketing company, so your claim of not being compensated by the company for your referrals is suspect, at best.
Not to mention that your LinkedIn profile indicates that you do "real estate marketing."
Wikipedia? Are you serious? That's your research? And you call yourself an investor
