I bought a turnkey duplex with $0

I bought a turnkey duplex with $0

Investor · Northern Indiana · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 27 votes

Investment Info:

Duplex buy-and-hold investment.

Purchase price: $130,000
Cash invested: $0

Acquired from a motivated investor moving out of state in late 2022, this duplex was turnkey upon closing. The previous owner was starting a new business and was ready to be done with real estate. We negotiated a 75% bank finance, 25% seller finance deal that required no money down at closing and no work needed, given it was turnkey. The total monthly PITI, including seller finance, is $1,200 a month. Both sides rent equal $1,600. After maintenance and property management, it cash flows ~$200 a month.

Being the property manager on the backend does have its perks. The tenants have never missed a payment, but being on time has been another situation. Last year, the property averaged nearly $2,000 a month in rent when you include late fees. We have an aggressive $50 a day charge beyond the 3-day grace period. The late fees are not something to rely on by any means, but they increased the property performance in 2023.

The market value is $160,000.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

My current specialty is residential investing and managing the properties on the backend. Given this was a duplex in a developing area, my strategy was to buy and hold with cash flow. The fact that I could hit every box with $0 down and still have a good margin of safety made me jump all over it.

How did you find this deal, and how did you negotiate it?

This property was found on Zillow FSBO. He wanted the cash pop to help with his new business but liked the idea of monthly cash on the backend.

How did you finance this deal?

The bank loaned 75% on a 30-year fixed loan with a 15-year balloon. The remaining 25% was seller-financed on a 4% interest-only loan, ballooning at 10 years.

What was the outcome?

We now own a highly desirable duplex with instant equity, cash flow, and no money invested.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Adam DeShone:

Investment Info:

Duplex buy-and-hold investment.

Purchase price: $130,000
Cash invested: $0

Acquired from a motivated investor moving out of state in late 2022, this duplex was turnkey upon closing. The previous owner was starting a new business and was ready to be done with real estate. We negotiated a 75% bank finance, 25% seller finance deal that required no money down at closing and no work needed, given it was turnkey. The total monthly PITI, including seller finance, is $1,200 a month. Both sides rent equal $1,600. After maintenance and property management, it cash flows ~$200 a month.

Being the property manager on the backend does have its perks. The tenants have never missed a payment, but being on time has been another situation. Last year, the property averaged nearly $2,000 a month in rent when you include late fees. We have an aggressive $50 a day charge beyond the 3-day grace period. The late fees are not something to rely on by any means, but they increased the property performance in 2023.

The market value is $160,000.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

My current specialty is residential investing and managing the properties on the backend. Given this was a duplex in a developing area, my strategy was to buy and hold with cash flow. The fact that I could hit every box with $0 down and still have a good margin of safety made me jump all over it.

How did you find this deal, and how did you negotiate it?

This property was found on Zillow FSBO. He wanted the cash pop to help with his new business but liked the idea of monthly cash on the backend.

How did you finance this deal?

The bank loaned 75% on a 30-year fixed loan with a 15-year balloon. The remaining 25% was seller-financed on a 4% interest-only loan, ballooning at 10 years.

What was the outcome?

We now own a highly desirable duplex with instant equity, cash flow, and no money invested.


 Did the bank appraisal come in at $160k?


is 50.00 a day late fee even legal ???  And the bank approved a seller second behind them with no cash from you it appears ??  that's a pretty aggressive bank.
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  • Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tim P.:

    I feel like these type of deals overlook the value of your time time and energy.  $2,400 per year cash-flow... it's so little... even if you bought 20 of these you'd be at $48,000/year... just doesn't seem worth it.  Duplexes are not passive income, and one major repair will eat your entire year's cashflow.  More money would come from a raise at work or bartending on the weekends.  I don't mean to be cynical, if you love real estate, I'd just suggest you chase higher $$$ properties so that you get rewarded for your efforts.


     I agree that $2400 per year for a duplex is on the low side, but that wouldn't be critical to me. I manage and do my own repairs and it really isn't that much work. I like the cash flow I can get, but what my real objective is having my rentals appreciate at least as much as inflation and get paid off within 15-20 years. Then they will go to my kids free and clear. That's worth it to me.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    2y

    Man this thread got spicy.

  • Member since 2024 · 1 post · 0 votes
    2y

    Being that you bought this property as a turnkey will you consider cost segregate the sellers fixes using Receipts to confirm the work done

    You'r almost using the sellers own mistake to your own benefit=Tax saving/benefit 

    The rehabbers will let you know cost

    You can cost segregate because that property was a new purchase to you

  • Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 21 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Adam DeShone:

    Investment Info:

    Duplex buy-and-hold investment.

    Purchase price: $130,000
    Cash invested: $0

    Acquired from a motivated investor moving out of state in late 2022, this duplex was turnkey upon closing. The previous owner was starting a new business and was ready to be done with real estate. We negotiated a 75% bank finance, 25% seller finance deal that required no money down at closing and no work needed, given it was turnkey. The total monthly PITI, including seller finance, is $1,200 a month. Both sides rent equal $1,600. After maintenance and property management, it cash flows ~$200 a month.

    Being the property manager on the backend does have its perks. The tenants have never missed a payment, but being on time has been another situation. Last year, the property averaged nearly $2,000 a month in rent when you include late fees. We have an aggressive $50 a day charge beyond the 3-day grace period. The late fees are not something to rely on by any means, but they increased the property performance in 2023.

    The market value is $160,000.

    What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

    My current specialty is residential investing and managing the properties on the backend. Given this was a duplex in a developing area, my strategy was to buy and hold with cash flow. The fact that I could hit every box with $0 down and still have a good margin of safety made me jump all over it.

    How did you find this deal, and how did you negotiate it?

    This property was found on Zillow FSBO. He wanted the cash pop to help with his new business but liked the idea of monthly cash on the backend.

    How did you finance this deal?

    The bank loaned 75% on a 30-year fixed loan with a 15-year balloon. The remaining 25% was seller-financed on a 4% interest-only loan, ballooning at 10 years.

    What was the outcome?

    We now own a highly desirable duplex with instant equity, cash flow, and no money invested.


     Hi Adam, I'm looking to purchase my first investment property.  Just curious, why the ballloon payments?  Did you prefer those for any particular reason?

  • Investor · Northern Indiana · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:

    Yeah we just didn’t tell the bank about the silent 2nd. 

    Why people post these “success stories” I don’t get it. What is possibly to gain?

    They were fully aware of the note. I’m honestly shocked people are finding it so hard to believe. 
  • Investor · Northern Indiana · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @David Cruice:

    Congratulations on the deal, Adam.  Ignore the naysayers slating your deal.  You might not have hit a home run on this one, it's at least a decent RBI.  Pat yourself on the back for moving the needle on your dreams.  The more deals you do the better you and your deals will become.  You've differentiated yourself from the other 95% of wannabe investors out there who never find the cojones walk the walk.  Keep crushin' it!  


     I appreciate it David and couldn’t agree more!

  • Investor · Northern Indiana · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Donnie Tucker:
    Quote from @Adam DeShone:

    Investment Info:

    Duplex buy-and-hold investment.

    Purchase price: $130,000
    Cash invested: $0

    Acquired from a motivated investor moving out of state in late 2022, this duplex was turnkey upon closing. The previous owner was starting a new business and was ready to be done with real estate. We negotiated a 75% bank finance, 25% seller finance deal that required no money down at closing and no work needed, given it was turnkey. The total monthly PITI, including seller finance, is $1,200 a month. Both sides rent equal $1,600. After maintenance and property management, it cash flows ~$200 a month.

    Being the property manager on the backend does have its perks. The tenants have never missed a payment, but being on time has been another situation. Last year, the property averaged nearly $2,000 a month in rent when you include late fees. We have an aggressive $50 a day charge beyond the 3-day grace period. The late fees are not something to rely on by any means, but they increased the property performance in 2023.

    The market value is $160,000.

    What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

    My current specialty is residential investing and managing the properties on the backend. Given this was a duplex in a developing area, my strategy was to buy and hold with cash flow. The fact that I could hit every box with $0 down and still have a good margin of safety made me jump all over it.

    How did you find this deal, and how did you negotiate it?

    This property was found on Zillow FSBO. He wanted the cash pop to help with his new business but liked the idea of monthly cash on the backend.

    How did you finance this deal?

    The bank loaned 75% on a 30-year fixed loan with a 15-year balloon. The remaining 25% was seller-financed on a 4% interest-only loan, ballooning at 10 years.

    What was the outcome?

    We now own a highly desirable duplex with instant equity, cash flow, and no money invested.


     Hi Adam, I'm looking to purchase my first investment property.  Just curious, why the ballloon payments?  Did you prefer those for any particular reason?


     The lender I used for this deal does a 30 year fixed, 15 year balloon for their investment loans. 30 year fixed with no balloon is most ideal!

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Adam DeShone:
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:

    Yeah we just didn’t tell the bank about the silent 2nd. 

    Why people post these “success stories” I don’t get it. What is possibly to gain?

    They were fully aware of the note. I’m honestly shocked people are finding it so hard to believe. 

    First, you’re not in at $ zero. That’s nonsense. You had closing costs. 

    Second there isn’t a chance a lender other than a clueless private fool gave the money for the junior 25% if they were fully informed. And nobody patting you on the back in this thread is going to disagree with me. 

    My point was why are you even posting the details of this transaction. What is to gain?  

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  • Investor · Northern Indiana · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:
    Quote from @Adam DeShone:
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:

    Yeah we just didn’t tell the bank about the silent 2nd. 

    Why people post these “success stories” I don’t get it. What is possibly to gain?

    They were fully aware of the note. I’m honestly shocked people are finding it so hard to believe. 

    First, you’re not in at $ zero. That’s nonsense. You had closing costs. 

    Second there isn’t a chance a lender other than a clueless private fool gave the money for the junior 25%. And nobody patting you on the back in this thread is going to disagree with me. 

    My point was why are you even posting the details of this transaction. What is to gain?  

    Why are you mad? It is a cool deal about creative financing; can I not post about it? Whether you believe it or not, the credit union did indeed loan exactly as I said, and I have nothing to gain from lying. You do realize some credit unions hold their own portfolios? They can adhere to slightly different loan terms because they aren't selling it. Keep worrying about other people; I'm sure it will pay off. Good luck with your investments.

  • Investor · Northern Indiana · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 27 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:

    Yeah we just didn’t tell the bank about the silent 2nd. 

    Why people post these “success stories” I don’t get it. What is possibly to gain?


    silent second is a trick us builders use LOL.   Most banks have rules of the road that loan committee sets out and generally one of the major rules after the GFC is NO 100% financing and investors MUST have a down payment in cash.. At least with all the banks I have used.  Although I have never used a credit union but the ones out this way follow the same rules.

     Credit unions often hold onto the mortgage they originate (also known as portfolio loans), whereas banks often sell the mortgages they originate on the secondary mortgage market. Therefore they can adhere to slightly different rules. Which is how I got this structure of loan. 

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Adam DeShone:
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:
    Quote from @Adam DeShone:
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:

    Yeah we just didn’t tell the bank about the silent 2nd. 

    Why people post these “success stories” I don’t get it. What is possibly to gain?

    They were fully aware of the note. I’m honestly shocked people are finding it so hard to believe. 

    First, you’re not in at $ zero. That’s nonsense. You had closing costs. 

    Second there isn’t a chance a lender other than a clueless private fool gave the money for the junior 25%. And nobody patting you on the back in this thread is going to disagree with me. 

    My point was why are you even posting the details of this transaction. What is to gain?  

    Why are you mad? It is a cool deal about creative financing; can I not post about it? Whether you believe it or not, the credit union did indeed loan exactly as I said, and I have nothing to gain from lying. You do realize some credit unions hold their own portfolios? They can adhere to slightly different loan terms because they aren't selling it. Keep worrying about other people; I'm sure it will pay off. Good luck with your investments.


    Not mad at all. These terms are not “slightly different” — they no longer exist for most and for good reason. But congrats.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Adam DeShone:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Tom Gimer:

    Yeah we just didn’t tell the bank about the silent 2nd. 

    Why people post these “success stories” I don’t get it. What is possibly to gain?


    silent second is a trick us builders use LOL.   Most banks have rules of the road that loan committee sets out and generally one of the major rules after the GFC is NO 100% financing and investors MUST have a down payment in cash.. At least with all the banks I have used.  Although I have never used a credit union but the ones out this way follow the same rules.

     Credit unions often hold onto the mortgage they originate (also known as portfolio loans), whereas banks often sell the mortgages they originate on the secondary mortgage market. Therefore they can adhere to slightly different rules. Which is how I got this structure of loan. 


    I understand banking I am a mortgage banker personally.. And have 40 year track record borrowing from Commercial banks on both sides of the country and they all HOLD their own notes.. they only sell the notes that are owner occ if they even do owner occ. Or Commercial banks if your loan is above their lending limit say their limit is 5 million and you have a 7 million dollar loan they will partner with another commercial bank to fund it for you this happened to us many times in the past I was not aware of it at the time but when the GFC hit we became aware of it on a few of our larger HML credit facilities ( 10 mil plus loans). . Most of the smaller commercial banks ONLY do portfolio lending the larger ones will also have a owner occ retail arm.. Just like many credit unions will have retail loans that are also sold in the secondary market.  My point is you got a unicorn I believe you set up your transaction as you described. However as you can see now others want  the name of your lender ( which I am not sure why you don't mention them). And want to duplicate what you have done.. I just dont think this is standard practice for credit unions or any portfolio state chartered lenders.. PML  HML sure.. We do all sorts  of things banks and credit unions wont do its why we exist.  However while it sounds like your CU has an appetite for helping you do 100% levered financing you should do as many as you can before they come to their senses :).. One of the reasons lenders don't like seconds behind them is in the event of a default they cant just get a Deed in Lu from you.. they have to prosecute a full foreclosure to remove the second from title so they can resell.. You the borrower still owe the money on the note of course.. And so many 100% levered deals failed in the GFC it was one of the main causes of the GFC that's why lenders no longer will entertain them.  Its just not a main stream product that many people are going to be able to use that's my point.  
  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    Alright, well others have politely called BS on the "$0 down" deal structure. But so far the "$200/month positive cashflow" magic spreadsheet claim has avoided critique, so let's address that. This is a public forum that a lot of beginners read and learn from so I think it's important to be honest with the numbers.

    Before I dig in, please don't get me wrong as I've bought negative cashflow properties before and they've done really great over time for me. I'm in a high price appreciation market with great rent appreciation also, so cashflow comes in time with rent increases. I spend money keeping up with maintenance, repairs and capex but get wealth from forced appreciation and gained equity, then eventually some cashflow as I'm able to increase rents, and that suits my purposes. In fact the properties in my portfolio that had the most negative cashflow for the first few years have actually done much better overall than the ones that cash-flowed positive day one. This is thanks to being in better locations with higher appreciation, steeper rent increases, less tenant issues, and less turnover/churn. 

    So this could still be a good deal if it's in a good location. But I'm unconvinced there will be any positive cashflow. By my underwriting you'll be coming out of pocket on this one by a lot, so let's take an honest look at these numbers for posterity sake:

    With PITI being $1,200/mo and gross rents being $1,600. That's only $400 left over for everything else. I don't think there's a single experienced landlord on here who believes you'll be cashflow positive on this in the real world. For starters, what about your other expenses like landscaping/lawn and tree care, snow removal, vacancy loss, water, sewer, trash, gas, electric? What about next year when taxes and insurance go up (which they will, probably by more than $200/month). What about when you have your first turnover and you have vacancy loss until you get it re-rented, and make-ready costs like cleaning, painting, flooring and fixing stuff that the last tenant broke, new appliances, etc.? Make-ready costs will be several thousand minimum, in my experience they range from $3-10k so there goes several years of your projected cash flow right there. These are just normal operating costs, not even getting into when things go sideways (which they tend to you when dealing with the human element combined with physical property that is constantly deteriorating). If you have a non-paying tenant and have to evict, or any minor mechanical issue that requires a plumber or an electrician, or a capex issue like a driveway, sewer line, roof, windows, doors, siding, appliances, etc... you're in the hole big time on this property. Sure, it's turnkey but even new construction has issues, it's a rental property and upkeep costs real money, so let's be real.

     It could still be a good deal mind you. I'm not dogging the deal, just taking an honest look at the underwriting. If the area is improving you may have positive cash flow in a few years due to rent increases. Hopefully you'll have appreciation along with principle pay-down and tax benefits. This is not a cash flow positive deal as we usually define cashflow on here, not even with the late fees factored in lol. 

    A beginner who doesn't have significant reserves to cover things that come up, or needs actual positive cashflow, should not touch a deal like this IMO. But if works for you, I'm all for it. It would work for me if in a great location, although the price-point and rent amount doesn't scream great location...  

  • Investor · Northern Indiana · Member since 2024 · 25 posts · 27 votes
    2y

    Landscaping, snow, and all utilities are covered by the tenants. Taxes and insurance have not gone up, but if they do, rent would reflect that. This one specifically is already slightly undermarket. Lastly, for your turnover costs, we would need to consider that different areas and sizes have different costs. For example, an 800-square-foot unit in Indiana will have a different turnover cost than a 1,200-square-foot unit in Colorado. Using the example "My experience is 3k-10k" is not the same as my experience. It is definitely not a cash flow-heavy duplex right now, but it is in a gentrification area with a lot of upside. I could get it with no money invested and get some cash flow in an area where rents will keep going up. Too much upside to pass up on. 

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