Purchased two Section 8 duplexes, side by side in Indianapolis, IN 1yr ago.

Purchased two Section 8 duplexes, side by side in Indianapolis, IN 1yr ago.

Homeowner · El Paso, TX · Member since 2012 · 81 posts · 22 votes

And to be honest, it was probably the worst financial mistake I've ever made in my life. I used one of the BP local sales people, and after everything was said and done, I realized, I did not do enough on my own end to minimize my own risk. In the end, this is all my own fault, but at the same time, I can't help but feel like I was taken advantage of by this company. I was the sucker on this deal.

My first mistake was trusting the inspection reports without hiring my own.

My second, was purchasing the property sight unseen. 

My third mistake, was purchasing the property only using online reports and not speaking to local RE agents, PMs and sellers.

My history thus far:

I closed on two section 8 properties late 2012, and right off the bat, I got a notice from the county that there was trash on the premise and if they weren't cleared out, I would be fined. Alright I figured, the properties were recently renovated, so I guess some left over trash is not a big deal. A few months later, tenant was complaining about a hole in her ceiling and water damage. I had to replace a roof on one of the duplexes. The original inspection report said it had roughly half life left in it, and did not mention a hole or water damage. I expected regular upkeep and maintenance, but honestly, after going through the accounting for tax season this year. Even without the roof replacement bill, I lost money all year. If it weren't for my other financial backings, these two section 8 properties (both of which cost 55k a piece), would of ruined me financially. 

The property manager stated later on in the year some choice words regarding my original seller, and how they over-priced me on the properties I purchased. And the kicker: not to expect a profit on properties like these for at least 2yrs, after I have personally taken care of all the renovations that the orignal seller supposedly took care of. 

Again, in the end, this is all on me, but I sure do feel a bit salty about it, and will no longer be using said companies services, and recommend against them whenever someone asks for an opinion.

So, let this be a lesson to those of you using online RE sellers. Do your own due diligence, see the property first hand, and check with local PMs/RE agents to see if you are receiving a fair deal to begin with.

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Realtor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2014 · 935 posts · 467 votes
11y

If you bought from a Turn Key operator there is a new website whereby you may leave your evaluation for others to benefit from. It is  www.turnkey-reviews.com

Persevere!

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  • Ben G.Pro Member
    Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 196 votes
    11y

    For the greater good of the BP community I think that it is appropriate for you to share the name of the company so that other investors don't get burnt.  

    Sorry to hear about your experience. 

  • Realtor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2014 · 935 posts · 467 votes
    11y

    If you bought from a Turn Key operator there is a new website whereby you may leave your evaluation for others to benefit from. It is  www.turnkey-reviews.com

    Persevere!

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Elliot Mendoza 

    I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I hope it doesn't sour you on investing. Indianapolis is a great cash flow market but you really have to know the area and you have to trust your "boots on the ground". Anyone who knows me can tell you that I often discourage people (especially new investors) from buying duplexes in Indy. Most of the duplexes are old and in rough areas so you have to be very careful. There's no excuse though for the property not being renovated to the standards that you were led to believe. One suggestion is to always get a contactors scope of work for what was done in the renovation and then compare it with the inspection report. In this case, even that might not have helped since the inspection report didn't call out things that should have been identified. Unless you really know and trust the turn key company that you're working with, it's not a bad idea to get an independent inspection. Technically, you should have to do that since all inspectors are required to be licensed in the state of IN, but that doesn't stop some from being dishonest. I wrote a report on how to buy properties out of state and I'm happy to share it with anyone that would like a copy. Hopefully it might help others to avoid a bad experience.

  • Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2014 · 303 posts · 101 votes
    11y

    @Mike D'Arrigo 

    Can you send me a copy of your report? I'm interested!

  • Real Estate Broker & Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2012 · 218 posts · 83 votes
    11y

    Sorry to hear about your experience. Sadly not the first of these stories I've heard. Indy is a great market for cash flow....but as others have said....you really have to know what you are doing here....we have a lot of variation within the matter of sometimes as little as 5 or 6 blocks.

    Also, for others reading....I don't buy duplexes in Indy, and I live here and know the area. They look great on paper, and typically that's about all they look great on. There are some areas in town where they make sense....but these are higher priced areas where you are attracting young professionals. Sadly that's not the area where you will fin most of these.

    There are a ton of SFHs people can rent...for not much more than a double...so the only applicants you'll get in a double are those that have no other options. Multi families only make sense to me when prices are so high that SFHs are priced beyond affordability. Outside of a few niche markets...that doesn't exist in Indy.

    Best of luck to you and hopefully this doesn't dissuade you from Indy entirely. 

    I'll be happy to help any way I can, even if it's just some free advice.

  • Investor · Eureka, CA · Member since 2014 · 233 posts · 222 votes
    11y

    @Elliot Mendoza Thank you for sharing your struggles. I know a lot here on the boards focus on all the good that can come from REI (and there is a ton!), but its always a sobering reminder that its by no means a foolproof way to financial success. The farther away from home you invest, the more diligence and outside help you will need to succeed. Hopefully this will remind others who might get overly excited about investing in another state that its not easy. I hope that after these tough first couple years your properties start cash flowing well and get you out of the woods on them.

  • Investor · Andover, MA · Member since 2015 · 269 posts · 67 votes
    11y

    @Elliot Mendoza - terribly sorry to hear about your experience...

    Rule of thumb I got from a mentor earlier in the day... It's much better to have a PM company you trust than to have a great location house without one.

    Long story short, never bought a property sight unseen... Never negotiated with a PM company I never met the people face-to-face... it's just too much risk for my humble abilities to handle.

  • Investor · Meridian, ID · Member since 2013 · 133 posts · 50 votes
    11y
    Elliot Mendoza You are in good company as we've all made mistakes whether in the stock market or real estate or commodity investments, etc. I have enough trouble with local deals and people trying to pump them up. Thanks for being brave enough to share as I don't know if I would have done the same.
  • Homeowner · El Paso, TX · Member since 2012 · 81 posts · 22 votes
    11y

    Yeah, harsh lessons, but you've got to learn them somehow. 

    I've never had a mentor sadly, and being military at the time coming home from a deployment, long distance is something I'm used to. I just got lazy and didn't do my own due diligence and thats a lesson you'll never forget.

    My PM though is outstanding in my book. So he's helped me out over the year and if nothing else, has ensured my property has met the repairs i've ended up paying for and taken care of all the issues that have come up since purchasing said property. I have no complaints, except maybe that plumbers cost too much. 

    So is life though, this doesn't mean I will stop, but it does mean I will be more cautious in the future. 

  • Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    11y

    I have one duplex in the indy area. Kinda bought it on a whim.

    The numbers look fine on paper, and I am just going on a year of owning it.

    However the type of tenant you attract in a lower/mid level duplex in indy, causes the issues. You are most likely to have higher turnover cost, more frequent vacancies, and higher overall expenses on a duplex. The farther out of the inner city the duplex is, the better, as you have a shot at getting a slightly higher level of tenant. When I bought mine, most on here, warned me of indy duplex's but i bought anyways. While it has not been a complete disaster, I don't foresee me buying another duplex in the near future. While most quote on here the 2 percent rule with single families as something to shoot for, I would say 2 percent is lowest acceptable purchase/rent, you want to accept on a duplex, especially if you are paying water/sewer. So if you paid 55k, Hopefully you are getting at least 550 a side in rents, or 1100 total. If you are, and can keep it filled, with "ok" tenants, then you probably won't get hurt too bad. However, if these duplexes, are closer to the middle of the city, in some real shoddy areas, and are 2 bed/1 bath units. Market rent, may only be 450 a month. And you may be lucky to break even.

  • Real Estate Broker · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 427 votes
    11y

    Sorry to hear about this situation.  Thanks for sharing your experiences with BP.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    11y

    Yep,....out of state, sight inseen, "turn key", C-D class....the perfect storm.

  • Lake Orion, MI · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    @Mike D'Arrigo  great info - can you share the report below - thanks " I wrote a report on how to buy properties out of state and I'm happy to share it with anyone that would like a copy. Hopefully it might help others to avoid a bad experience."
  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    have you since sold those properties?  @geoNakis

  • Real Estate Broker · Carmel, CA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    @Mike D'Arrigo

    Hey Mike, would you mind sending me your report on buying out-of-state properties?  While I am not looking to buy in Indiana, I am looking at properties in Pennsylvania and any information you have would be appreciated.

    While I am a beginner in investing, I am a Realtor down in the Carmel area, not too far from you.  Let me know if I can ever return the favor somehow.

    Thank you,

    Jonathan

  • Developer · Nashville, TN · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 406 votes
    9y

    @Elliot Mendoza Sorry to hear about your troubles, but thanks for sharing.  We operate a turnkey company here in Indy, and some of our properties are the kind that people in this thread are warning about.   That said, we've never had an issue.  I think it all boils down to WHO you are doing business with.  We don't have a problem keeping duplexes rented in B-/C+ neighborhoods, but our mgmt company also has 20 years of renters in a database, and do a great job of vetting.  We also put these tenants into properties that are in good shape, as they've been fully rehabbed.  There's a lot more to tell, but you get the idea.  When you do things right through the entire process, you can get the results you are looking for.  I'm happy to act as a resource to show you ALL of the things you need to look for on your next deal, whether it's in Indy or not. 

    And although I haven't yet read @Mike D'Arrigo's report (I would like to), there are probably some great gems in there that would keep you from making the same mistakes again.  

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Balog:

    @Mike D'Arrigo

    Hey Mike, would you mind sending me your report on buying out-of-state properties?  While I am not looking to buy in Indiana, I am looking at properties in Pennsylvania and any information you have would be appreciated.

    While I am a beginner in investing, I am a Realtor down in the Carmel area, not too far from you.  Let me know if I can ever return the favor somehow.

    Thank you,

    Jonathan

    Hi Jonathan, here's a link to the report

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/6558fb_75ee0a128cd74f8aa56dc8c58b382a65.pdf

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