My first Yellow Letter potential deal - downtown Sacramento

My first Yellow Letter potential deal - downtown Sacramento

Sergey TkachevPro Member
Investor, Agent, CPA · West Sacramento, CA · Member since 2009 · 706 posts · 262 votes

I wanted to share my first yellow letter potential deal and get feedback from you guys on this scenario...

I received a call in regards to a yellow letter I sent about 3 months ago, the caller is a close friend of the owner, who is 70yo, has power of attorney and is trying to help him sell the house.  The house is an old 1900 Victorian'ish house in downtown Sacramento, had a partial fire, has been gutted on the inside, work was partially started but then stopped due to lack of funds.  

Current condition: inside is about 80% gutted, has an illegal addition attached to it that is probably cheaper to tear down (it's in really poor shape and not built well) and rebuild than make legal, has a finished basement unit with kitchen but it's illegal, city wants it returned to basement/storage.  Most of exterior and structure seem ok but it pretty much needs a full rehab, from roof, to electrical, plumbing and so on.  Built in 1900, 1300sqft, has high ceilings (10ft?), can be brought to it's original character.  Garage can be added in backyard.  Rehab is at a minimum $50-60k without any additions, if I manage it myself.

Coming up with an ARV has been somewhat tricky - the property is in the Mansion Flats area of downtown, which as far as I understand, is not the best and not the worst area, but more of an improving part of downtown Sac. There are rental fourplexes in the same area, as well as condos converted from 4plexes. The owner may consider owner financing. There is a current mortgage of around $200k and they are looking to catch the existing equity above that 200k. They haven't really stated what they are looking to get.

The options I see are: 1) Tear down illegal addition and add a new one to expand the current 1300 sq ft to 2000sqft or so, add a garage in the back (there is alley access) and return downstairs to basement.  This has potentially more profit but more risk than (2).  2) Remove illegal addition and restore the original 1300sq ft, return downstairs to original basement and possibly add a garage in the back. 3) Turn it into a multi-unit, and either rent or sell - selling units individually would seem to make most sense (as opposed to renting) but this is higher risk for me as I have not had that kind of experience before.  Exit strategy in all cases is to rehab and sell.

Because I'm not confident on the ARV, my thoughts are to potentially work with the owner on sharing equity after rehab, i.e. - offering a low price and an equity share of profits at sale. This way I can potentially purchase at lower cost initially and have less risk of putting up too much money. At the same time, owner has a potential of making more on final sale of ARV (hope that makes sense).

I'm open to any other ideas and input, maybe from someone who knows the Mansion Flats/Downtown area well.  Pretty much looking at all my options.  Apologize for the long post, I probably missed something so if something doesn't make sense, let me know - I tried to summarize as much as possible to keep it short. :)

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Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2012 · 289 posts · 151 votes
10y

I'm not super familiar with Mansion Flats, but based on my familiarity with Midtown and other surrounding neighborhoods, I'd think the most value in the property is going to be as a 2-3 plex (maybe 4). I don't think there's high demand for single families in that area, and the trend is going towards converting SFR into multis around downtown anyway.

With that in mind, it makes more sense to spend the money to jack it up to gain legal floor space on the bottom now, compared to later after the main floor has already had improvements. If you do a nice SFR improvements now, future investors won't want to pay a premium for your improvements if some of them need to get ripped out to convert the property to multifamily.

Jack it up, and put in two 1bds on the ground floor, ~100k.  Maybe another ~80k for the main floor.(That might be a little tight, since your talking a brand new kitchen, bathroom,  HVAC, roof....) You're probably going to be running new plumbing to the street anyway, so this way the entire house can be done right. Same with the electrical. Put in as wide a garage as the city will let you, with a 'workshop' on top, that could possibly get a variance for living space in the future. (~25k)

Rent it out, and sell it fully rented to someone from San Francisco with a bunch of 1031 money burning a hole  in their pocket. Now if you can still make money doing that...

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  • Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2012 · 289 posts · 151 votes
    10y

    I'm not super familiar with Mansion Flats, but based on my familiarity with Midtown and other surrounding neighborhoods, I'd think the most value in the property is going to be as a 2-3 plex (maybe 4). I don't think there's high demand for single families in that area, and the trend is going towards converting SFR into multis around downtown anyway.

    With that in mind, it makes more sense to spend the money to jack it up to gain legal floor space on the bottom now, compared to later after the main floor has already had improvements. If you do a nice SFR improvements now, future investors won't want to pay a premium for your improvements if some of them need to get ripped out to convert the property to multifamily.

    Jack it up, and put in two 1bds on the ground floor, ~100k.  Maybe another ~80k for the main floor.(That might be a little tight, since your talking a brand new kitchen, bathroom,  HVAC, roof....) You're probably going to be running new plumbing to the street anyway, so this way the entire house can be done right. Same with the electrical. Put in as wide a garage as the city will let you, with a 'workshop' on top, that could possibly get a variance for living space in the future. (~25k)

    Rent it out, and sell it fully rented to someone from San Francisco with a bunch of 1031 money burning a hole  in their pocket. Now if you can still make money doing that...

  • Real Estate Agent · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2012 · 111 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Sergey Tkachev I have a duplex in Mansion Flats and lived there for years.  If I remember right, the property you are talking about is on the same block as the coffee shop.  I remember watching the news from the apartment, while tons of smoke was billowing into the air only a block and a half away! Crazy...

    As @Derek Daun mentioned, midtown and Mansion Flats are predominately rentals. It's going to be pretty easy to comp these for rents and ARV. Is the 1300 sq ft a 3/1? If so, you should be looking at north of $1700/m easy so long as you are planning nice features.

    Parking is not easy and there is a decent-sized development proposed at 15th/I Street.  Garage would be a nice value add.  You could also explore a unit on top.

    Someone tried to split a duplex into condos (it's actually right across the street from your subject property).  Not sure if they were eventually successful, but I recall them putting one of the units on the market every year. haha.

    I can think of one non-multi family flip in the neighborhood.  You could take a look at that property and get an idea of where things might be today.  Send me a message for more info if interested.

  • Gordon CuffePro Member
    Investor · Roseville, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 583 votes
    10y

    @Sergey TkachevFirst you need to find out what the seller wants for the house. You can analyze it forever but that doesn't matter until you get a sales figure from the seller. If you have money and time and you can wait 4 to 6 months to get paid then try a rehab. You could also find an end buyer , make money fast and let them figure out what they want to do with the property. Contact me if you don't have a buyer as I have a bunch of them.

  • Sergey TkachevPro Member
    OP
    Investor, Agent, CPA · West Sacramento, CA · Member since 2009 · 706 posts · 262 votes
    10y

    Wow, thanks for the quick responses, I really appreciate it!

    @Derek Daun - thanks so much for that idea, going with the multi option is something that seemed more risky initially, but it does make sense, especially if that area is mostly a rental area.  That gives me something more to think about ...

    @Jake Weir - thanks for your input, lol, what a coincidence that you know which property I'm talking about :).  Yeah, the individual I talked to did mentioned the duplex to condo conversion across the street (although I think he said it was a 4plex initially, or maybe that they split into 4 condo units).  I'm definitely interested in learning any more info you have on the area, I will shoot you a message!

    @Gordon Cuffe - thanks for your input as well!  Yeah, I realized later that I did not press enough to find out what they wanted to for the property, I'm meeting them again and will try to find out.  And I've had the wholesale route as an option in the back of my mind, but looking to be more involved in the deal/project.  But that's still an option, I will keep it in mind and let you know :)

    Thanks again for all of your input!  Anyone else is welcome to add their thoughts/experience :)

  • Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2012 · 289 posts · 151 votes
    10y

    I personally wouldn't consider the condo option, however, I'll admit I've never investigated that market. I'd be interested in seeing if the market exists. My gut reaction is that there isn't much of a value proposition for potential buyers based on what you'd have to charge vs what their money gets them with other options. 

  • Sergey TkachevPro Member
    OP
    Investor, Agent, CPA · West Sacramento, CA · Member since 2009 · 706 posts · 262 votes
    10y

    @Derek Daun - do you mean that you wouldn't consider it because of the high cost of the conversion, and hence a high asking price that would not make sense to the end buyer (i.e. they can get something better for the same price)?  

    I'm curious as well, although I don't think that's something I'd want to do just yet.  But supposedly it might make some sense - if it's true that each unit sold for $250k and there are 4 of them, that's $1M total sales price.  And $250k per unit is not too bad of a price for something in downtown Sac ... although I might be missing something, then scratch all of that :)

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