Has anyone had any experience with Phil and Shenoah Grove?
Spring, TX · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 5 votes
Has anyone had any experience with Phil and Shenoah Grove?
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Real Estate Agent · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2016 · 81 posts · 112 votes
9yI just attended Phil and Shenoah Grove's "Big Live Event" this past weekend in Austin. I like going to these kinds of events and typically find a way in without paying out of my own pocket (in this instance, a friend of mine joined the REIA and had 2 tickets to the "Big Live Event", so I went for free.)
For those who don't know, the Big LIve Event is a 3 day workshop on real estate investing. It is touted as a weekend where you will learn 12 ways to invest in real estate, 65 marketing strategies, and 10 closes, all designed to maximize your deals. Of course this also comes with having to listen to "the pitch" about joining the "Big Dog" program at a cost of $20,000 to $50,000! I won't go into more about the "Big Dog" program as I did not join. For those who wish to pay that kind of money, I'm sure it's very motivating. God knows I would not want to spend that kind of money and do nothing.
Beyond listening to the "Big Dog" pitch, there were also two vendors, an insurance agent specializing in working with investors as he's an investor himself, and Quest self directed IRA. Both vendors offered good information about their services and how you can use their services to help your business. With all that being said, this leaves the question of "did they do what they said they would (teach the 12/65/10).
I listened very closely, and can say that of the 12 ways investing strategies (Wholesale, Short Sale, Wrap, Mortgage Assignment (Subject to), E Partner, Fix & Flip, Contract for Deed, Lease - Option, House Swap, Buy and Hold, Referrals), 7 were covered. You had to listen very closely for a couple of those as Phil lightly touched on them and moved on.
Of the 65 marketing strategies, only a few were covered, and lightly at that.
Of the 10 closes, 3 were covered.
The remainder of the time at the event was a lot of stories told by Phil Grove - "I made over $281,000 on this house", but when an attendee asked what strategies he used to make that kind of money the answer was "I don't remember, that was a long time ago"; "I live in a 3.9(?)Million Dollar Mansion and this is how I got it."; "Here's a picture of me" with this celebrity and that celebrity (yawn).
What I found glaring about the weekend was the pitch for the big dog program (as expected, so that's not really a criticism) , but as soon as the crew finished interviewing those who filled out the forms for more information on the big dog program, Phil was notified by a person in the back of the room that they were done with their interviews and within minutes the entire weekend was wrapped up and I have to say it wasn't done smoothly. Since I was attending with a person who paid $100 for her membership to the REIA at the basic level and can't afford the big dog program, I found this quite disrespectful to her and other attendees who don't have that kind of money. They paid their money to learn the 12/65/10, but didn't get all that they paid for.
My overall thoughts on the Dallas/Houston/Austin/San Antonio REIA meetings are good. I would recommend that you go as a visitor once, even pay the $100 to join the REIA (I feel it would be $100 well spent for the networking possibilities, chalk it up to marketing expense) so you can continue going to the monthly meetings. At the monthly meetings, go on time, but don't sit in the main hall listening to the pitch to join the REIA at $100 again, stay in the lobby area and look for name tags with a red dot on them. These are the Big Dog members. Talk to them, network with them, find a few good wholesale deals (and I do mean good deals, so you can build rapport), and after you have a rapport you may be able to ask one or two for coaching/mentoring opportunities. For those who don't have the extra $20K-$50K to spend on the big dog program, it's a good use of $100 worth of marketing and your time. Who knows, you may even make some friends or find a coach/mentor sooner than thought.
28 Replies
- Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 349 posts · 142 votes9y
@Jessica Valentin I have been to their program a couple of times and I agree with you. The only way to get into the "in crowd" is by paying for the exclusive weekend program and that is no small amount. They are really good about selling themselves. I would never spend money for that type of "education" when you could jump into any deal, even if you loose money, and learn more from the experience. If you have any questions or idea you want to discuss, feel free to reach out. I will help anyone I can and I don't charge.
- Real Estate Agent · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2016 · 81 posts · 112 votes9y
I just attended Phil and Shenoah Grove's "Big Live Event" this past weekend in Austin. I like going to these kinds of events and typically find a way in without paying out of my own pocket (in this instance, a friend of mine joined the REIA and had 2 tickets to the "Big Live Event", so I went for free.)
For those who don't know, the Big LIve Event is a 3 day workshop on real estate investing. It is touted as a weekend where you will learn 12 ways to invest in real estate, 65 marketing strategies, and 10 closes, all designed to maximize your deals. Of course this also comes with having to listen to "the pitch" about joining the "Big Dog" program at a cost of $20,000 to $50,000! I won't go into more about the "Big Dog" program as I did not join. For those who wish to pay that kind of money, I'm sure it's very motivating. God knows I would not want to spend that kind of money and do nothing.
Beyond listening to the "Big Dog" pitch, there were also two vendors, an insurance agent specializing in working with investors as he's an investor himself, and Quest self directed IRA. Both vendors offered good information about their services and how you can use their services to help your business. With all that being said, this leaves the question of "did they do what they said they would (teach the 12/65/10).
I listened very closely, and can say that of the 12 ways investing strategies (Wholesale, Short Sale, Wrap, Mortgage Assignment (Subject to), E Partner, Fix & Flip, Contract for Deed, Lease - Option, House Swap, Buy and Hold, Referrals), 7 were covered. You had to listen very closely for a couple of those as Phil lightly touched on them and moved on.
Of the 65 marketing strategies, only a few were covered, and lightly at that.
Of the 10 closes, 3 were covered.
The remainder of the time at the event was a lot of stories told by Phil Grove - "I made over $281,000 on this house", but when an attendee asked what strategies he used to make that kind of money the answer was "I don't remember, that was a long time ago"; "I live in a 3.9(?)Million Dollar Mansion and this is how I got it."; "Here's a picture of me" with this celebrity and that celebrity (yawn).
What I found glaring about the weekend was the pitch for the big dog program (as expected, so that's not really a criticism) , but as soon as the crew finished interviewing those who filled out the forms for more information on the big dog program, Phil was notified by a person in the back of the room that they were done with their interviews and within minutes the entire weekend was wrapped up and I have to say it wasn't done smoothly. Since I was attending with a person who paid $100 for her membership to the REIA at the basic level and can't afford the big dog program, I found this quite disrespectful to her and other attendees who don't have that kind of money. They paid their money to learn the 12/65/10, but didn't get all that they paid for.
My overall thoughts on the Dallas/Houston/Austin/San Antonio REIA meetings are good. I would recommend that you go as a visitor once, even pay the $100 to join the REIA (I feel it would be $100 well spent for the networking possibilities, chalk it up to marketing expense) so you can continue going to the monthly meetings. At the monthly meetings, go on time, but don't sit in the main hall listening to the pitch to join the REIA at $100 again, stay in the lobby area and look for name tags with a red dot on them. These are the Big Dog members. Talk to them, network with them, find a few good wholesale deals (and I do mean good deals, so you can build rapport), and after you have a rapport you may be able to ask one or two for coaching/mentoring opportunities. For those who don't have the extra $20K-$50K to spend on the big dog program, it's a good use of $100 worth of marketing and your time. Who knows, you may even make some friends or find a coach/mentor sooner than thought.
- Real Estate Agent · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2016 · 81 posts · 112 votes9y
One final thought on the 3 day "Big Live Event". If you've already paid $100 for the membership to the REIA for the networking opportunities if you do it like I recommended above; you might as well go the 3 day weekend (it's included in your $100 membership). There's more networking opportunities there with people just going into the Big Dog program, You may learn a little about strategies, and if you are totally new to investing and haven't gotten your feet wet yet, it may help build your confidence. Remember, it all starts with the mindset "I am a real estate investor".
- Pearland, TX · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 12 votes9yDon Alder-LaRue that is an excellent summary of the Big Live Event. I went in Houston in January. I didn't try to add up all the things promised versus what they actually taught, but I did learn a lot while I was there. Sometimes he talked too fast for me to keep up with what he was saying though, and I'm sure I probably missed some of the strategies. Overall it was worth the $100 though.
- Real Estate Agent · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2016 · 81 posts · 112 votes9y
@Teresa DelaMater Thanks! Like I said, I like going to these kinds of events, and so I try to keep track and see if they fulfill their promises.
- Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 11 votes9y
I went to one and I hate to be negative but the event felt like a scam and I am saying this just based on Phils glorified wholesale story that made it sound like it was the easiest thing to do and that he can teach you and you can make $17K a pop. They went to talk about how it will be awesome to have breakfast with them that only a few people get a chance to do so you can pick their brain. The more I talk about it the more upset I get because people like me are trying to break into the Real Estate world and these people are trying to take advantage of your inexperience. It's great to network and that is probably the only value of attending this event.
- 9yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Asad Hashmi there simply is not free lunch.. and REAL estate is very very hard.. and vitually no one makes 17k on deals out of the gate without spending probably 30k on marketing to start.
your competing with a whole hoard of folks who have the get rich quick mind set.. these companies pery on that.. they make their dough selling the information to their students..
Its why I don't do REIAS and don't recommend them most are just fronts for these same guys
- Investor · Pearland, TX · Member since 2016 · 246 posts · 136 votes9y
if you don't do REIAS, then what would you suggest as a way to network and find partners in the real estate world?
It can't all be marketing and having people call you, can it?
- Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 11 votes9y
@William E. I believe the theme of this post has turned into attend REIAS for networking purpose only and don't get drawn into the Guru sales pitch. You are right, you can't sit on the sideline and expect the opportunities to flow to you, you must be active.
- Wholesaler, Rehabber and Landlord · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
In just about any group you will learn something. What you learn and how much you pay for it will vary greatly. I have been in several big REIAs here in San Antonio. I have stayed a member of 1. Even that one is still kinda pitchy. They always talk about a weekend seminar that only costs $399 or if its a national guru maybe its $999. You have to be able to get past the sales pitch. I go before the meetings and network with other investors. I try to talk to at least one new person every meeting. Half the time I am outside talking about deals with other members or bored in my chair. But I do listen to what they are saying and I try to get all the knowledge that I can.
ps I am NOT a member of that group anymore, nor have I even gone to the weekend deal, it sounded too pitchy to begin with.
- 9yBrad LarsenPro MemberProperty Manager · San Antonio and Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 377 posts · 380 votes
With ANY Real Estate Investment group - you are going to have to put up with the pitch from some sort of vendor. That is the deep rooted purpose. I will, however, point to all of their education could be found on Amazon for near the same price of a $100 ticket. Certainly NOT worth $25,000 unless they gave you a key to their un-limited low cost funding vault. But, without that happening - work on finding education at the readily available level.
Ok - Education is Great. BUT - BUT - BUT!!! You have to IMPLEMENT what you learn. Get out there and DO INVESTMENTS. Do not read about them and dabble. You have to get in, make your mistakes, and do it again. If you break even on a deal, it's an education making you a better and smarter business person.
If you decide to be a real estate investor, the conferences are only a tool.....you still have to use that ax and start chopping.
Good luck out there!
- 9yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@William E. there are many other REIA type orginazations.. LIke in LA there is FIBI
and up here in Oregon there is Rare bird...
I suspect you look a little deeper and you will see there are other places to network and of course the absolute best networking and way to get into real estate sales.. ( which is all wholesaling is ) is to get a license and work in a nice size brokerage and network with fellow agents go to all their events..
I get 99% of my 200 plus deals a year through broker networks and Auctions.. NOT wholesalers. Wholesalers generally are a time suck. Far too many newbies starters and I have zero interest in going through there learning curve.
- 9yGrace WiddicombePro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Eugene, OR · Member since 2010 · 177 posts · 55 votes
Eugene/Springfield Oregon started a new REIA, called OR REIA.net, because I'd been running th meetup group for close to 5 years here. And after my experience running the REIA in Portland, I learned first hand about some of the characters that poach on wide-eyed investors. I was one of them once. (Live and learn.) That's why I am committed to bring good education to people, by the best people in the real business.
You'd be surprised who we have here, in our neighborhood, running top-notch businesses. For example, we have Gorilla Capital in Eugene, who does more fix-n-flips in this country than anyone I know. The CEO, John Helmic will be speaking this Tues night. (Mar. 14th). And we are not selling anything. No package, no weekend seminar. No online training. Sorry, nada. Just come and make connections. But people coming better register, because the little hotel won't know what to do if a bunch of people show up.
It's like the story of the Three Bears: There are three kinds of REIAs, 1 - those which have "sold out", 2 - those which are ineffective, and 3 - those which are "just right". What does "Just Right" mean to you?
- Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 16 votes9y
@Grace Widdicombe - where is John Helmic speaking?
I tried googling it with no luck
- 9yGrace WiddicombePro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Eugene, OR · Member since 2010 · 177 posts · 55 votes
@Adolfo Cuellar - Re: John Helmick speaking, you can find It at www.ORREIA.net - Eugene/Springfield - next Tuesday evening, March 14th.
- Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 39 posts · 16 votes9y
Thanks @Grace Widdicombe
- Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 213 posts · 60 votes9y
You are there already, change your mindset and start networking your but off. You should be looking for the info you can actually take as value instead of looking for the "scam". Don't buy anything and network since you already there and paid.
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2010 · 1 post · 0 votes8y
In the BLE that I attended for $100 for the weekend of Jan 5/6/ 2018, they talked a lot but did not say anything. In the end, gave a sales pitch for another program for a fee: $20,000 (Yes, 20 thousand dollars) and $50,000 (Fifty thousand dollars).
I guess when I wasted my hard earned $100 on their BLE, stupid was written all over my face.
Why would I pay them $20,000 or $50,000 to teach me something that is readily available for lot less or even free all over the net.
- Austin, TX · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 1 vote8y
I just attended today and they had 100% money back guarantee for the big live event also. They said that you just need to "tap" on their shoulder for money back....i do not know if someone who is not satisfied have done that. This was my first time attending REIA Austin event. I live the material presentaed since I am still a newbie. I also did not mind the $100 for BLE (which was free if i join the REIA) and the 1K for 3 day weekend training. ....but I got so disappointed with the 20/30K "Big Dog" program.... I would pay 1K for 3 day training but with real education. Based on the reviews here it looks like it's another pitch for big dog program with less education. Good thing about is I met some newbies and other experiences investors in the Austin area. Is there any other REIA in Austin or a meetup which is more off a non-profit organization?
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8yI went to one of their free seminars about 2 years ago. It’s a giant sell fest and not worth it at all. Thankfully I didn’t fall for it. Make sure you don’t fall for it either
- Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes7y
Well said Don Alder-LaRue, I am just surprised that people end up thinking they're going to get the recipe of being a millionaire in $100 and just 3 days. Well like he said, if you absolutely don't have the cash to be a big dog, talk to them and try to figure out what you can do to get in.....once you're in, you'll never regret it, in your entire life I promise you that !!!
Look, there's a lot of motivation needed for people who have gained all the knowledge through google, thats what those pitches are for....its for "if they can do it, we can do it too".
Taking the first step is important !!! Phil is excellent, so is Shenoah !
Paradigm shift is important!!!
Change the way you think !!! Its Important !!
Go do a deal, learn from your mistakes!!! its ok to learn from your losses, that way as well, there no cost you can put on that loss, neither will that loss / time will be definite !!
If your doctor did not spend those 100s of 1000s of $ in becoming a doctor and get that degree and learn from the best teachers.....would you trust them with your life ?
AT least here they're not putting you through a rigorous 5 yrs program. I know a few Big Dogs...its worth it.
- Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 10 votes7y
Thanks for the detailed description. I actually never attended one of these, and now I am more amuse (more so about the entertainment seeing this more as a spectacle and show) and disappointed (was expecting it to be more educational-focus). Nonetheless, I plan to to go and have a good time. If for no other reason, I am looking forward to meeting any fellow BP members who may attend and hopefully network with others as you mention.
I was wondering if you or your friend have attended the commercial 3-day event. It sounds like it may be relatively new. This is the only reason why I decided to pay the $100 (I was one of the last persons filling out the application). I wanted to attend the 3-day commercial event because it is advertised that they include a field trip to one of their current commercial property (and actually go over the deal of how they acquired it and what they look for when finding a deal). Though, I will not hold my breath if they find some contingency or do not deliver on their promise. Also, I am hoping neither of the Groves host this event because neither one is actively investing in commercial real estate (Phill voluntarily admitted this in the initial meeting). I am hoping one of their members name, Steve, will be hosting this event because he is the active commercial real estate investor in the group. Or at the very least, I would like the host to be an active commercial real estate investor. Again, I will not be surprise if this does not happen (I have been reading so many posts about this event, any thing related, and the different opinions. At this point, anything that you may say I probably already read it).
- Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes7y
It’s hard for somebody like me to fathom spending 20-50k on a guru program . That seems like an incomprehensible waste of money to be mentored by an “ expert” . For that same amount I could buy a multifamily apartment building and make 1500-1800 in monthly rent fairly easily . Maybe I should be the one teaching classes and offering a platinum diamond program .
- Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 10 votes7y
I think paid mentorship is a personal choice. Many people learn in different ways. Some people feel like they will get more out of paying for someone who is perceived as more experience. Some people understand and value the time of a particular mentor and are willing to pay for it. Some people want to invest in real estate with the least involvement and are willing to pay a more experience person to do all the work, split the profits, and learn nothing more about real estate.
I have read some investors paid $10,000 for a mentor and were unhappy. I know an investor who paid $25,000 for her mentor and does not regret it. In fact, she still volunteers at his events whenever she can. The advice she gave me was that the amount of money you spend has to make financial sense. My interpretation is that it is the responsibility of both the investor and the mentor to compare whether the cost of mentorship makes financial sense for the investor. Also, she mentioned that she made her $25,000 back on her first deal.
I think there are many other factors involved with mentorship and that it should not be taken lightly. I feel that many people misunderstand and misinterpret what a mentor can do and what a mentor cannot do.
I would spend the $20,000-$50,000 to be in a deal or partnership or several deals and partnerships (being an optimist) where there is a real estate transaction(s) involved and go from there, but that is my personal opinion.
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