A commercial mortgage bites the dust!

A commercial mortgage bites the dust!

Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes

I never do this! A little nervous with the Just Stop thread going on - but had to share.

Freedom is more important to me than anything. It's why I do REI. My 3-word goal for 2017 (if you remember that thread) was 'satisfy commercial mortgages' and I aim to do it!

In case you don't know, commercial loans usually have 5 year calls.  Some will call automatically and make you get a whole new loan, and some will just make you submit docs to re-qualify.  

I would like to share a letter (a little embellished, but I'm proving a point) I just sent to one of my local commercial lenders today, a community bank.  Hasta la vista, baby! 

Dear Claudia,

Thank you for your recent letter, providing me the opportunity to re-qualify for our little loan of $114,000 that is secured by $700,000 of income-producing assets, the entire LLC, my wife and I's personal name and my management co that has rights to collect all rents in my portfolio.

I do hope you will find my past 3-years tax returns, personal financial statement and the entire completed 1003 mortgage application sufficient to extend my loan for 5 more years at whatever interest rate you choose. Will this require another $3500 appraisal as well? Oh please, please - bless me with your mercy and grace.  

Just kidding!  Please accept this letter as a formal request for the pay-off amount and full reconveyance of the deed of trust as of May 1, 2017.   Is 2pm in your office a good time? Would you prefer cash or fed funds wire?    Kind Regards,  Steve

ONE DOWN - 2 TO GO!

A private lender I have known and done business with since 2005 is giving us a 10-yr fixed rate mortgage at 5.5% (the current bank rate) to pay this off.  No appraisal, no points and none of the usual underwriting docs.  

Thank you for sharing an important milestone with me!  

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Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y

Sounds like a great strategy ... what zip codes are you investing in again? :)

Actually, I wouldn't be so worried about the Just Stop thread nearly as much as the barrage you are about to get on debt good, equity bad ... you won't get that from me, though. Congrats!

Your hunting gun is now racked, stacked, and fully loaded ... ready for the next recession, coming soon to a market near you ... or if you decide your hunting days are over and you'd rather just sit on the front porch drinking a beer, polishing your hunting rifle, telling tall tales of hunting seasons past, and laughing at the newbies gearing up ... hey, you probably now have that option or will real soon. It feels good to have lots of options, doesn't it?

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  • Investor · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 955 votes
    9y

    congratulations @Steve Vaughan ! 

  • Investor · Longwood, FL · Member since 2015 · 221 posts · 130 votes
    9y

    Thanks for posting, don't stop. Lol

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Sounds like a great strategy ... what zip codes are you investing in again? :)

    Actually, I wouldn't be so worried about the Just Stop thread nearly as much as the barrage you are about to get on debt good, equity bad ... you won't get that from me, though. Congrats!

    Your hunting gun is now racked, stacked, and fully loaded ... ready for the next recession, coming soon to a market near you ... or if you decide your hunting days are over and you'd rather just sit on the front porch drinking a beer, polishing your hunting rifle, telling tall tales of hunting seasons past, and laughing at the newbies gearing up ... hey, you probably now have that option or will real soon. It feels good to have lots of options, doesn't it?

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    Thanks @Scott Harper!  2 to go, bud.  It's amazing what focused intensity can accomplish!

    Granted I only moved the pea from under angry, demanding shell #1 over to relaxed don't bother me anymore with your rules shell #2, but it's the freedom I'm after.  

    @David Faulkner zip codes - LOL    How about 90210?  I think there's a high school there where 25 year-olds still go and provide drama for all of us.

    Yes, my 'gun' is at the ready, but the huntin' is tough out there.  Between naps, I'll peek over my drink in the deer blind.    

    Thanks for chiming in, guys!

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Grats, @Steve Vaughan!

    Now go paint all the doors red per the Scottish tradition.

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Thanks @Scott Harper!  2 to go, bud.  It's amazing what focused intensity can accomplish!

    Granted I only moved the pea from under angry, demanding shell #1 over to relaxed don't bother me anymore with your rules shell #2, but it's the freedom I'm after.  

    @David Faulkner zip codes - LOL    How about 90210?  I think there's a high school there where 25 year-olds still go and provide drama for all of us.

    Yes, my 'gun' is at the ready, but the huntin' is tough out there.  Between naps, I'll peek over my drink in the deer blind.    

    Thanks for chiming in, guys!

    LOL ... I actually owned a rental not too far from 90210, and it was a great property. I wonder what the CAP rate on Melrose Place would be? Probably pretty low but great appreciation potential what with all the bikini clad actresses lying around by the pool :)

  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Bad *** man!  You hit it baby it is all about freedom, Braveheart style.  You will never have to answer to another man for your security.  There is nothing more American telling anyone you want especially a bank to go to hell.  

    Loving it dude nice work.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Chris Mason:

    Grats, @Steve Vaughan!

    Now go paint all the doors red per the Scottish tradition.

     I like it, Chris!  So when driving for dollars and looking for seller-finance opportunities, some free and clears may have red doors in the Scottish tradition.  

    Cool tradition, although here in the states it would probably just open more folks up to lawsuits lol.  Look at me!  I have a paid for house and lots of equity under my personal name!

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Eric Bilderback:

    Bad *** man!  You hit it baby it is all about freedom, Braveheart style.  You will never have to answer to another man for your security.  There is nothing more American telling anyone you want especially a bank to go to hell.  

    Loving it dude nice work.

     Amen, Eric!  Thanks.  Getting out from under the thumb of the man and lovin' it!

    Funny thing is - my private lender is refinancing me from a savings account he has at the same bank we are paying off.

    Claudia is losing double: a performing, overly secured commercial mortgage loan AND a savings account they are paying less than 1% on.   

    She's losing $228k in balance sheet capital at her little bank by waking me up and bothering me.  If she didn't request I go through these ridiculous hoops every 5 years, I would have happily paid on it through full amort. 10 more years!  

  • Investor · Arcata, CA · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    Congrats! I'd love to see the response to that letter.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Eli Kallison:

    Congrats! I'd love to see the response to that letter.

     Thanks, Eli! Will post the response. Most likely she will just state the payoff amount. May back-pedal and waive the re-qual requirements? That would be a win as well! Will let you know!

  • Investor · Arcata, CA · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    That's what I'd hope for! Who knows, she may even offer you a better rate. I love the satisfaction that comes from writing notes like yours.

  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    STOP THE MADNESS


    hahaha!!! I love that my post managed to bleed into yours ;)

    I forgot if you are more of a leverage or Ramsey kinda guy. or did you just hit the max number of loans you can have?

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Eli Kallison:

    That's what I'd hope for! Who knows, she may even offer you a better rate. I love the satisfaction that comes from writing notes like yours.

     Me, too!  So much so that this is my first 'success story'.  Property and deals come and go, but the opportunity to really stick it to a bank is special! 

    This site and a lot of us are here to stand up for the little guy.  Had to share a little guy win and I very much appreciate your shared enthusiasm!

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @David Zheng:

    STOP THE MADNESS


    hahaha!!! I love that my post managed to bleed into yours ;)

    I forgot if you are more of a leverage or Ramsey kinda guy. or did you just hit the max number of loans you can have?

     Why David, whatever do you mean?  Who are you again?

    LOL  Thanks for stopping by.  A celebrity you are these days!

    I'm more of a Ramsey/Kiyosaki evil stepchild or something.  I don't do consumer debt, but definitely use responsible levels of RE leverage.  

    I'm not at my max loans at all, just tired of these commercial lenders that make you answer to them every year or every 5 years.  I have a different and final answer for them these days -Option B: pay them off and be done with them.  Just a bonus the pay-off is coming from one of their clients' savings accounts!

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Chris Mason:

    Grats, @Steve Vaughan!

    Now go paint all the doors red per the Scottish tradition.

     I like it, Chris!  So when driving for dollars and looking for seller-finance opportunities, some free and clears may have red doors in the Scottish tradition.  

     Depends on the culture ... sometimes a red door means something MUCH different ;-)

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @David Faulkner:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Chris Mason:

    Grats, @Steve Vaughan!

    Now go paint all the doors red per the Scottish tradition.

     I like it, Chris!  So when driving for dollars and looking for seller-finance opportunities, some free and clears may have red doors in the Scottish tradition.  

     Depends on the culture ... sometimes a red door means something MUCH different ;-)

     Maybe a red light illuminating the red door? You're funny!

  • Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes
    9y
    Congrats Steve Vaughan ! Your letter to the bank was the same one I have wanted to send many times. Every time I payoff a loan I feel like I eliminated a "partner" I didn't want. A lot of investors would criticize my style of investing by paying them off as soon as I can. I know I sleep a whole lot better now owing low 6 figures instead of when it was well into 7 figures!
  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jim Shepard:

    Congrats Steve Vaughan ! Your letter to the bank was the same one I have wanted to send many times. Every time I payoff a loan I feel like I eliminated a "partner" I didn't want. A lot of investors would criticize my style of investing by paying them off as soon as I can. I know I sleep a whole lot better now owing low 6 figures instead of when it was well into 7 figures!

     Hey thanks, Jim!

    I get a lot of push-back being ok with high equity positions, too.  I would rather have 35 paid off than 100 leveraged.  Too much work.

    Because of the higher risk and higher PITA factor with the commercial loans, I chose to pay those off first.  Next one is a 10 unit, going bye-bye in 2019!

  • Real Estate Agent · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 52 posts · 37 votes
    9y

    I think you treated her poorly. Keep in mind, her institution took a shot on you and trusted you in the first place. Now that you have some bankroll take the better opportunity - but stay humble and kind to those that have helped you build your bridges. Congrats on your new fixed line. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Patrick Ryan:

    I think you treated her poorly. Keep in mind, her institution took a shot on you and trusted you in the first place. Now that you have some bankroll take the better opportunity - but stay humble and kind to those that have helped you build your bridges. Congrats on your new fixed line. 

     I certainly can appreciate your view on this Patrick. I appreciate it more because you had the guts to 'go against the flow' here and you bring up a valid point.

    The loan was originated as a simple refi out of a 5yr seller-financed loan.  It had lots of equity and was a no brainer for her and her bank, but I see your point. No reason to burn a bridge just because I'm butt hurt over terms I agreed to.  They are only doing what they were scheduled to do.

    But... she is the queen bee there and if she wanted to, she could have just left well enough alone.  She chose to nit-pick me and make me re-qual anyway is why I wrote it this way.  For the most part, barking at a bank like a little dog gets us nowhere, that's for sure.  Thanks for chiming in!   

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Steve Vaughan  I hope you were being factious with your letter to your local community bank.

    you have to remember these folks have a board and the board Is regulated by state and federal regulators..

    she being the queen Bee cannot go against bank regs and policies its the same for every one of them.. its not here its the FEDs.. :)

    I see this very often on BP were borrowers simply do not know how the back end of banking really works and who really controls the rules etc etc.

    you got the one in a million private loans.. and I am sure you know that.

    although I could have given you the 107k at 9% for 5 years interest only with only a drive by appraisal required..

    But the other pearl to glean from this is all those who have rushed out and gotten then commercial loans with 5 year calls... they can come back to roost.. in 09 to 2011 you could not refi them no matter how strong you were the bank was sold.. Rialto owned your paper and they wanted their dough..

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    Thanks @Jay Hinrichs  You are right - I and most of us don't know all that's involved with banking at the back end - the committees and regs.   Thought the committee review was a farce lol.  I've used that line before.  'The tenant selection committee has deemed your application to be...' :)  

    With it being a commercial loan they hold in portfolio I would think they have some room on things, but maybe not,

    When I got this loan in 2012 I was pretty happy I will confess.  Until I got to the closing table and realized all the commercial guarantees. Every business I own + personal guarantee.  If I didn't know and trust her, no way I would have done it.  Wasn't aware of any of that (except the personal guarantee) until at the closing table.  Too late to ask for mods. Seller I was paying off was in escrow to buy something else.  Commercial appraisal was 2 weeks late, etc. So I had my little fit in the cereal aisle 5 years later...

    I heard back from her via e-mail on Monday.  I was hoping she would back-pedal and just let the loan ride, but she did not.  She said she has set her calendar and will provide me with the payoff amount after the April payment. Then she said 'thanks' and signed off. 

    You are right about the 1 in a million opportunity with my private lender.  We have been friends and business 'colleagues' for almost 12 years and I appreciate him for sure.  When I have a question or need to share a win or struggle I call old Gary.  Just wish he wasn't 78!  A mentor of sorts and friend for sure.

    Next time I need a no-brainer, I'll call on my buddy Jay. Bet he won't ask for my first born along with a less than 50% LTV. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom here my friend!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Steve Vaughan  yes... the bankers really don't have the right to unilaterally make decisions.. that was the savings and loan days and you know where that ended up.

    also you have to realize unless you have a LOT of deposits with them  500k in cash or more or a lot of loans into the multi millions.

    one 107k they simply do not make any money on that.. they get their funds from the fed at about 3% lend it to you for say 5.5 or 6  they make a whopping 2500 or 3000 a year GROSS then they have their over head and expenses of setting the loan up doing all the paper work..

    ERGO banks cannot afford a loss.. if they take a default it kills them.. they have to off set your bad loan and put money aside etc etc.

    so yes two sides of the coin.

    and I fully understand how us as borrowers just think in our minds its a no brainer etc etc.

    ALL commercial loans of that size have those types of guarantee's its industry standards and common knowledge.. so now its known to you as well.

    what was the alternative.. HML at 4 points at 14% ?

    but great thread and its nice to talk both sides of the transaction for others to understand how this all works behind the scenes.

    LIke @Chris Mason who does loans.. he does not write policy he can't make a wink and a nod an give you a loan because of super duper LTV.. he has to go by guidelines.. all cheap money does.

    now you go private or Hard and we make the rules.. LOL  and I like making the rules.

  • Bulawayo, Zimbabwe · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 253 votes
    9y
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