Yearly Update - My TURNKEY portfolio 2017

Yearly Update - My TURNKEY portfolio 2017

Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 102 votes

Hey all - I did an update on my Turnkey Portfolio for 2016 here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/40...

and it was a big hit so I figured I'd do it again for 2017! NOTE: I own OTHER properties that are NOT Turnkey including everything from SFR to Commercial, BUT this is JUST to discuss my Turnkey portfolio specifically. I do this because there are so many questions about TKs for beginning investors so I thought it would be good to go through this and answer any TK specific Qs that anyone has.

I own Tks in 2 markets, Indy and KC. One of the ones in KC I sold so I am leaving that one out altogether.

All of them were purchased with 70-75% LTV.

Indianapolis properties - I bought ALL of these properties in mid - 2015, at the end of 2017 I did a cash out refi and the property values had gone up about 25% across the board in appreciation. That roughly equates to what I had down + closing costs in to buy these properties! I hear a lot about turnkey and appreciation - BUY IN A NEIGHBORHOODS that are close to the median house price!

Cash on Cash returns

Property A - 5% (Had a turn that cost one month rent, one month in lease up fees, and then almost another month rent in the turn as this tenant lived there for almost 3 years.)

Property B - 27%

Property C - 18%

Property D - 17%

Blended CoC - 16%

IRR (For the sake of this, just cash on cash + principal paydown (before the cash-out refi's) went into this calculation)

Property A - 10%

Property B - 33%

Property C - 22%

Property D - 21%

Blended IRR - 21%

Factoring a cash out is always tough where to place it when looking at returns, yearly the returns would come out to 41%, 73%, 105%, and 100%, but really, with the money I've made and taken out I've already made back all of the money down into my pocket and then some so over 100% cash on cash overall.

The crazy thing about the refi was that not only did I take money out, but the amount my payment increased over 30 years is LESS than what I took out due to lower interest rates now.

Kansas City Property - 

Cash on Cash - 3%, IRR with above metrics - 7% - This property is the most expensive TK I've ever bought, it's a nice property with low issues, but once a turn hit, the property just took a while to rent back out.

Turnkey isn't exactly TURNKEY and PASSIVE like everyone thinks. Due diligence is really important and it still takes some tracking and staying on the PM to make sure everything is done properly. There is NOTHING more important than your feet in the street when buying turnkey and the PM you use. For that reason alone, my investing strategy for 2018 includes only buying more in Indianapolis at this point with most or all of it being turnkey (that of course could change.)

And please, don't try to get rich quick, slow and steady is the best way to do it, don't get burned on a D grade property from across the US that you bought for $40K and rents for $700/month and think you won't have issues and will become a millionare over night.

If any property or TK specific questions, please ask away!

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y

@Lance Robinson  thanks Lance  now if I could just get my wife to listen to me  LOL>..

anyway congrats and will let others jump on here so you can pay it forward and help others make the right decision and ensure their invest do well like yours have..   !!!

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Rental Property Investor · Plainview, NY · Member since 2015 · 123 posts · 28 votes
    8y

    Thank you both @Lance Robinson and @Jay Hinrichs,

    Everywhere I look in Indianapolis - those are all rentals :)

    I just revisited both my properties locations and actually feeling better. One that I got for 96K - all comps are higher, closer to 120k and the one I got for 67K, the median is about 75k.

    So, my other big puzzle is how and when will I ever be able to refinance them to get all or most of my money back? I don't like speculating that the market will keep appreciating...

    There are lots of very honest and good TK providers out there but my problem with the approach is that I have to buy at the top price and the chance of getting my cash back out is very slim.

    Has anyone had luck buying directly from TK and then refinancing?

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 102 votes
    8y

    @Jay Hinrichs Thanks for jumping in!

    @David K. True value is what to look for, definitely not all rentals. The median is about $130-140K, so $96K is a good bit below the median, on the low range of what I'd buy. You have to look at actual comps, not just Zillow. You also need to look at the MSA median (metro statistical area) $67K is way low, I would never buy a property at that price point, you're asking for trouble. If you buy in the ghetto, the median of that neighborhood doesn't matter, you need to be more macro. Make sense?

    You don't need to speculate anything, if there is no appreciation you will only ever refinance and get the money back out after it is paid down, there is no secret formula to it. You can try and buy lower and put money into it and fix it up yourself. You have to trust the quotes you get and the contractors doing the work, and factor in a miss on pricing quoted, interest on holding, extended period of vacancy, then the tenant being placed. If you want to manage that all from afar, it sounds like you want a business, not an investment.

    All of my properties in this thread that I refinanced were bought directly from TK and ultimately refinanced. There really is no value on the buy with turnkey. I've tried to manage value-adds and BRRRR from afar and I'll tell you that it really doesn't work, it's just a headache. You're feet on the street are SO important. Good luck.

  • Sylmar, CA · Member since 2017 · 47 posts · 28 votes
    8y

    @Lance Robinson I am glad I saw this post! I am looking at purchasing property and I have been wondering how I can get started. I was looking at the Indy market but I have been racking my brain on where to buy. I did have a great comversation with a few people there about naighborhoods but I am still not sure about areas to look for and what price range I should be focusing on.

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 102 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ruddy Anthony Salazar:

    @Lance Robinson I am glad I saw this post! I am looking at purchasing property and I have been wondering how I can get started. I was looking at the Indy market but I have been racking my brain on where to buy. I did have a great comversation with a few people there about naighborhoods but I am still not sure about areas to look for and what price range I should be focusing on.

     Like I mentioned above - stay near the median house value per the MSA (It's about $130-$140) I like around $100-$130K in general

    Just outside the loop to the west, east, and south seem to be good (North too expensive) just inside can be OK, Beech Grove a bit spot, my best property is in BG though, and stay away from anything near 38th st, even near Butler it's bad. Neighborhood wise, you really need a feet on the street person to understand it.

  • Sylmar, CA · Member since 2017 · 47 posts · 28 votes
    8y

    @Lance Robinson Sorry, I must have missed your previous posting while I was writing mine. I have talked with a few PM's and I have heard that the south is a good spot. I talked with one who really seemed to know the area and it has helped me out quite a bit.

    Still learning.

  • Sylmar, CA · Member since 2017 · 47 posts · 28 votes
    8y

    @Lance Robinson Would you mind showing the numbers you have for the properties? 

    I would love to take a closer look so that when I am crunching the numbers I have a better idea.

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Lance Robinson:

    Hey all - I did an update on my Turnkey Portfolio for 2016 here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/40...

    and it was a big hit so I figured I'd do it again for 2017! NOTE: I own OTHER properties that are NOT Turnkey including everything from SFR to Commercial, BUT this is JUST to discuss my Turnkey portfolio specifically. I do this because there are so many questions about TKs for beginning investors so I thought it would be good to go through this and answer any TK specific Qs that anyone has.

    I own Tks in 2 markets, Indy and KC. One of the ones in KC I sold so I am leaving that one out altogether.

    All of them were purchased with 70-75% LTV.

    Indianapolis properties - I bought ALL of these properties in mid - 2015, at the end of 2017 I did a cash out refi and the property values had gone up about 25% across the board in appreciation. That roughly equates to what I had down + closing costs in to buy these properties! I hear a lot about turnkey and appreciation - BUY IN A NEIGHBORHOODS that are close to the median house price!

    Cash on Cash returns

    Property A - 5% (Had a turn that cost one month rent, one month in lease up fees, and then almost another month rent in the turn as this tenant lived there for almost 3 years.)

    Property B - 27%

    Property C - 18%

    Property D - 17%

    Blended CoC - 16%

    IRR (For the sake of this, just cash on cash + principal paydown (before the cash-out refi's) went into this calculation)

    Property A - 10%

    Property B - 33%

    Property C - 22%

    Property D - 21%

    Blended IRR - 21%

    Factoring a cash out is always tough where to place it when looking at returns, yearly the returns would come out to 41%, 73%, 105%, and 100%, but really, with the money I've made and taken out I've already made back all of the money down into my pocket and then some so over 100% cash on cash overall.

    The crazy thing about the refi was that not only did I take money out, but the amount my payment increased over 30 years is LESS than what I took out due to lower interest rates now.

    Kansas City Property - 

    Cash on Cash - 3%, IRR with above metrics - 7% - This property is the most expensive TK I've ever bought, it's a nice property with low issues, but once a turn hit, the property just took a while to rent back out.

    Turnkey isn't exactly TURNKEY and PASSIVE like everyone thinks. Due diligence is really important and it still takes some tracking and staying on the PM to make sure everything is done properly. There is NOTHING more important than your feet in the street when buying turnkey and the PM you use. For that reason alone, my investing strategy for 2018 includes only buying more in Indianapolis at this point with most or all of it being turnkey (that of course could change.)

    And please, don't try to get rich quick, slow and steady is the best way to do it, don't get burned on a D grade property from across the US that you bought for $40K and rents for $700/month and think you won't have issues and will become a millionare over night.

    If any property or TK specific questions, please ask away!

    Congrats, great points, nice returns!

    You got it, no get rich quick here, slow and steady - you will get it - No $40k property!

    Key to TK is vetting the operator

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 102 votes
    8y

    @Ruddy Anthony Salazar Glad we could connect offline, I'll walk you through it.

    @Steven Gesis Thanks. Yup! The get rich quick is the best way to not get rich : ) Feet on the street are everything.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    8y

    @Lance Robinson Hi Lance - I tried to connect with you on BP as I had a few offline questions. Could we connect?

    Thanks!

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    8y

    @Jay Hinrichs Looks like your TK reviews site has been hacked. 

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 102 votes
    8y

    @Alex K. I'll reach out to you in the next couple of days, I was out of the country.

    Lance

  • Investor · Show Low, AZ · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    @Lance Robinson

    I know I am a little late to this party, but I would also like to know both your recommendations for turnkey companies you have used as well as how you went about vetting the providers?

    Would it be OK to contact you directly?

    Thanks,

    Geoff Cornelsen

  • Mc Gregor, TX · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 35 votes
    8y

    @Lance Robinson thanks so much!  This was so helpful!

  • Real Estate Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2013 · 39 posts · 4 votes
    8y
    Lance Robinson Thank you for the great post and congrats! Can I PM you to discuss more about the TK providers you used? Thanks
  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 102 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Geoffrey Cornelsen:

    @Lance Robinson

    I know I am a little late to this party, but I would also like to know both your recommendations for turnkey companies you have used as well as how you went about vetting the providers?

    Would it be OK to contact you directly?

    Thanks,

    Geoff Cornelsen

     Of course! Shoot me an add and message and we can sync.

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 102 votes
    8y
    David T. Of course! Shoot me a message!
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