$50,000 + in Damage is a HUGE Win!

$50,000 + in Damage is a HUGE Win!

Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Want to learn how 15 seconds could save you $50,000? (Man Doesn't that sound like Geico) Keep reading! 

So we bought a home in Lawrence Indiana that was tenant occupied at close. Now if you're buying direct to seller you're going to have property owners swear that their tenant has never been late in the past 300 years until it comes time to collect prorated rent at closing. 

"I've got to level with you Ryan, He hasn't paid in 2 months." 


When I buy a tenant occupied rental I pretty much just assume that we're going to have to do an eviction and budget for a full rehab. 



This is two months in with an eviction notice posted on the door. We worked with the tenant his first month to help him get prepared to pay on time going forward. He was in a home for $300 under fair market rent. (We will work with our residents once in a twelve month period if they've been a good resident.) 

Month two we heard everything from he was getting a sign on bonus, collecting a debt, to the check got lost in the mail. (Note: we set up 90% of our residents on online/direct pay. This gentleman was still on money orders.) 

Per our written policies a late fee is added on the 5th and if no payment is made by the 8th we post a 10 day notice. 

Our tenant actually showed up to court to fight the eviction and lost. 

The day he was supposed to be out he called our attorney and asked to go on a m2m lease. We declined. 

A "forced move out" was done but he had vacated the night before. 



This is where it gets fun. His water had been shut off for 30 days. We found out that they actually tried setting up water in a random name but the water company declined. 

I was traveling so we asked the water company to cut the water on at the meter but leave it off to the house. They informed us this was their policy and they wouldn't cut the water on to the house without us there. (Although we did give them a lock box code) We wanted to inspect for sabotage prior to cutting the water on. 

We got a call 4 days later (while out of town) from a neighbor that water was running out from our garage and front door. (What everyone wants to hear!) 

 When moving out the tenant had disconnected his washer on the 2nd floor and didn't shut off the water lines. Now in his defense I'm choosing to assume the best and view this as accidental vs intentional. I wouldn't think to shut off water lines that didn't have water coming out of them. 

The water company turned the water on into the house and didn't check the meter to see if it was running. This resulted in a $250+ water bill and effectively two garden houses wide open running for 4 days. 

Early estimates have damages exceeding $50,000 for insurance. Our crew has taken the property down to the studs and we've been drying it out for over 2 weeks now. (Checking via moisture readers) 

So why is this a win? 

1) I'm a HUGE believer in personal responsibility and this was an awesome learning experience. Had we taken the 15 seconds necessary to check this nothing would have happened. (So add this to your check lists folks!) I'm thankful that I got to learn this lesson on a SFR vs a larger property or a more high end one.

2) We're going to have an awesome renovation done on insurances dime. The property is going to have brand new bathrooms, carpet, paint flooring, drywall, and a new kitchen. 

When life gives you lemons.... 

It's our job as investors to show both sides of things. If all you post are wins and not the lessons you're giving people a rose colored view of REI. I'm sharing a lesson to save you the trouble of learning it on your own.

This is also a great reminder to make sure you have QUALITY insurance. 



We use private funding to pay cash for properties and then refi out (BRRRR) into bank financing.

The neat thing for our lender is that they will get paid like clockwork, their investment was protected, and we will have no problem refinancing. If anything, their 1st position mortgage (75% of ARV) will have even more equity due to the 5 star rehab this property will be receiving.

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Sycamore, IL · Member since 2017 · 26 posts · 9 votes
8y

Boy, I wish I had better insurance :/ I had a huge rainstorm back up the city sewer system into one of my units (also while I was on vacation) and didn't have sewer backup on the policy. Hello unexpected 15k renovation! But you can bet I'll never omit that coverage again and will be reviewing what other "optional" policies there are that my agent neglected to tell me. Way to keep it positive though, I'll bet that place will look fantastic after to renovation.

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  • Investor · Mitchell, SD · Member since 2016 · 86 posts · 21 votes
    8y

    Good lesson I'll have to keep that in mind when if I ever have the situation come up!

  • Sycamore, IL · Member since 2017 · 26 posts · 9 votes
    8y

    Boy, I wish I had better insurance :/ I had a huge rainstorm back up the city sewer system into one of my units (also while I was on vacation) and didn't have sewer backup on the policy. Hello unexpected 15k renovation! But you can bet I'll never omit that coverage again and will be reviewing what other "optional" policies there are that my agent neglected to tell me. Way to keep it positive though, I'll bet that place will look fantastic after to renovation.

  • Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    May not be the win you think it is! 

    Water claims are really held against you

    You can own 20 or 30 Rentals but if you have 2 water claims TOTAL it can make it difficult to get insurance

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    I've never had a claim in 10 years of buying property.  I get MINIMAL insurance.  Sure I could have done a few claims that I otherwise didn't but I save about $250k/year in my current insurance setup.   That's $2.5m in the last 10 years in my pocket (well, not really as 10 years ago I wasn't saving as much because I didn't have as much to insure --but you get the point).

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    You’ll want to see how that affects your insurance premiums and ability to get insurance because it can make it more difficult. I’m with Cody, I carry high deductible insurance whenever possible Cody L.
  • Rental Property Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 29 votes
    8y

    Hello Ryan,

    @Ryan Dossey

    This is a great learning story that shows all the problems we handled when Fix & Flipping properties. The TV shows do not show the true world that investors live in each and every day.  We have acquired hoarder homes with dead animals, infested properties, etc. We also had a water issue two years ago at one of our rehab properties caused by a contractor who was supposed to be installing floors and new kitchen.  The world of rehab is unique, exciting, and full of surprises. 

    When you finish your rehab, please re-post new after work pictures.  

    Thank you. 

    From Nancy E. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Caleb Heimsoth and @Cody L.

    We're not worried at all we have over 400+ doors with these guys and they're not worried either. I could see the issue with a large claim if that wasn't the case. Ultimately they will likely pursue the water company who was extremely negligent. Our legal counsel advised we take the pay off and let insurance worry about chasing it. 

    @Nancy E. I have made it my mission (especially on my personal profile) to show the wins AND the losses. The entire point of this post is to give folks one more thing to add to their checklist that could save them tons of money. We will totally post after pictures. The property has been drying for two weeks. Should be able to start here within the next week or so! 

  • Ray DipasupilPro Member
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 149 posts · 51 votes
    8y

    Enjoyed reading & learning from your experience. I like the perspective you have in approaching the situation. Well done!

  • Versailles, KY · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    Great lesson, thanks for sharing!

  • New to Real Estate · Central Coast, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 8 votes
    8y

    Thanks for sharing, I love your positive attitude. Will be looking out for those post-rehab pics.

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 317 posts · 257 votes
    8y

    WOW - Just emailed my insurance agent this post with "am I covered for this?" subject heading. Thank you so much for sharing!

  • Rental Property Investor · Mountlake Terrace, WA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    Maybe I'm not understanding correctly but why is insurance covering this ? Would they not just assume you were negligent when having the water turned back on? i havent dealt with insurance much but I do know they're usually a hassle haha

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    8y

    Emailing my agent now! Thanks for this post. One more thing to add to my mental list of things that could happen... 

  • Investor · brentwood, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 730 votes
    8y

    I had a very similar experience, mine was 25k in damage and the insurance company fixed it up so well we got another 250 a month upon the turnover + all lost rent for the rehab period.

    Would really prefer not to go through it again however, because you never know for sure how these things will work out in the end. But at least in this particular case we came out way ahead.

  • Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    I'm glad insurance came through! 

    Did the previous tenant damage the walls and ceilings, or where those pictures from during the tear down?

    I am also curious to how your private funding terms typically look like.  I'm looking at approaching some friends and family, but want to get a good base when approaching them.   I can't seem to find a post that describes a general process for private lending.  Do you get a private loan, pay them back after a few years through a refinancing from a bank?  I'd imagine it'll be difficult to get them to agree to a 20 or 30 year loan.

    Thanks in advance, and glad things worked out for you on this property!

    Kai

  • Real Estate Broker · Salem, OR · Member since 2017 · 101 posts · 43 votes
    8y

    Thank you for this post. When I first started reading it, I thought it was just going to be another success story, but it's a great lesson learned and thank you for sharing this with everyone! Also, if this happened to me, I think I would be absolutely devastated so I really admire your positive attitude.

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y

    Good thread! This is precisely why I leave the water off at the meter in unoccupied homes. 

    Skyline Properties
    View Page
  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @JD Martin That's exactly what we instructed. So not only did they cut the water on to the meter. They cut it on into the house without checking to see if it was moving. (Despite explicit instruction not to) 

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Kai Xu That's from the water damage. The washer/dryer were on the 2nd floor. 

    We provide our private lenders with a 2 yr term on a 1st position lien. We approach a bank to refinance around the 6-12 month mark. We're doing cash out refinances with local community banks. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Christopher Smith Absolutely. I'd much rather have had it not happen. However, I'm always thankful to learn these types of lessons. 

  • Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Dossey:

    @Kai Xu That's from the water damage. The washer/dryer were on the 2nd floor. 

    We provide our private lenders with a 2 yr term on a 1st position lien. We approach a bank to refinance around the 6-12 month mark. We're doing cash out refinances with local community banks. 

    Ah, thanks!  I'll start looking into putting together proposals similar to that.  Makes more sense than asking for a 20 year loan. haha.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 8 votes
    8y

    Any way you can let us know which insurance company you used?  My current home owner insurance did not do jackshit when my roof broke down due to hail (which is covered under their policy).  I need to find a better insurance company for next year. 

  • Jose LinaresPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 82 posts · 50 votes
    8y

    @Ryan Dossey Great post and attitude in turning a negative experience into a positive experience!  This was very helpful to read about your process when purchasing tenant occupied property.  In addition, I am sure the fact that you are so detailed with your process made it easy for the insurance carrier to find coverage & identify subrogation against the water company.  

    Be sure to keep all that documentation throughout the repair process to ensure the insurance carrier reimburses you for loss of rents, unforeseen issues, & code upgrades.  Once all the repairs have been completed and all invoices have been submitted, the insurance carrier will finalize their subrogation demand to recover their settlement & your deductible.

    While there are a few comments discussing the issues with insurance coverage & premium surcharge, the size of this loss warrants filing an insurance claim and illustrates the benefits of insurance.  I look forward to seeing the completed renovations. Thanks for sharing!  

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    We had a break in to the property. Damages were minimal. Someone spray painted their name on the floor and they stole about $800 worth of fans. We are currently working with insurance on starting the renovation. 

    They initially asked for one bid including everything (but itemized).

    They have no asked us to separate remediation from renovation. 

    We should have the "all clear" to start remodeling shortly. 

    Someone in my Facebook group shared an awesome resource for remotely monitoring properties. 

    https://www.wyzecam.com

    Obviously you would still need wifi but these are way cheaper than Nest Cams and get great reviews. 

    *We also now add the security plate/screws to every project/rental we do. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Plainfield, IL · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    8y

    Thanks for sharing the story - its great to see losses turned to wins.  This is why we pay for insurance!

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