1st BRRRR Success(ish)

1st BRRRR Success(ish)

Michael DohertyBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes

Here's a recount of my first BRRRR (Buy- Renovate-Rent-Refinance-Repeat) deal with specific details/numbers. This post is long and detailed, but for those who spend the time to read through it, I hope it helps.

How did I found the deal:

I found this deal on the MLS. It was a foreclosure and soon after submitting my offer, I found out another investor outbid me. It wasn't until 2 weeks later, my agent informed me the original investors financing fell through and my offer was accepted.

The Property and Location:

The property is an oversized two family house right next to a major Hospital and University in Middletown, Ct. Unit 1 has 3BR 1B and Unit 2 has 3BR 1B with 2 large rooms in the finished attic. From a location standpoint, I was pretty familiar with the area and believed it would be sought after in 3-5 years. I have already started to see many restaurants and breweries popping up in town.

Financing:

Listing: $130k 

Purchase Price: $118k

Financing: Hard Money Lender to fund 90% of the Purchase Price, 90% of the renovations for 3pts and 11.5% interest for 12 months no prepayment penalty. I had only done 2 prior deals (no flips) so the rate was slightly higher.

Rehab Budget: $30k

ARV (estimate): $215k

Rent (estimate): $2,800

  • Scope of work: 
    Convert Unit 2 from electric to gas heat. Unit 1 had already been converted so I knew gas lines were in place.
  • Install new on demand hot water system for 2nd floor unit. 
  • Install Luxury Vinyl Plank flooring (LVP) throughout both units (Home Decorators Collection Blue Cedar Grey from Home Depot)
  • Install new counter tops and cabinets in 2nd floor kitchen
  • New Vanity/shower for 2nd floor unit
  • Install 3 new windows
  • Install Sump pump in basement
  • Update washer dryer hooks (each unit)
  • Paint all ceilings/walls/ trim ( Agreeable Grey from Sherman Williams)
  • New appliances for 2nd floor kitchen (used from Facebook Market Place)

Holding Costs: $8,271

  • 4 months of $1,284 interest only payments
  • Taxes
  • Utilities
  • 6 months Builders Risk/General Liability Premium

After all said and done I spent $28,397 (not included holding costs) and was under budget!

Rent:

I was able to rent the top unit for $1,400 and the bottom unit for $1,375 totaling $2,775.

Refinance:

Because the renovation only took 3 months, I was looking for a lender who would refinance the deal without a seasoning period. After doing some research I came across a lender (found him here on Bigger Pockets) who would do a 75% cash out refi, 30 yr fixed @5.965% for 2.5pts, No seasoning.

When I originally financed the deal with the hard money lender I received two appraisals. The first was an as is appraisal for $120k. It also included a projected appraisal (including the scope of my work) for $220k (5k higher than my ARV!!)

Unfortunately my REFI appraisal came back at $201,500- 17k under the projected appraisal.

My lender then agreed to change the terms to 80% LTV to make this work. Two days before closing they changed their mind and could no longer do the 80% LTV, only 75% LTV. They would not budge and did not let me dispute the appraisal so I ended up dropping them and starting my search over. Moreover, I ended up finding another lender who would finance 75% cash out, 1.5pts, 30 yr fixed at 6.6% no seasoning. Their appraisal it came back @ $200,500- 1k less than the original!!!! At this point I figured I was sh** out of luck and should just eat the difference. However, I ended up writing a very detailed letter to the appraiser explaining why I think certain comps should be used vs others and he ended up increasing the value to $205,000!!!.

So after all said and done here is was the numbers look like:

Hard Money Loan

Hard Money Loan Payoff: $134k

Cash into the deal: $24k (includes 10% down on loan, 10% of rehab costs, closing costs)

Refi: 75% of $205,000= $153,750

Cash out: $153,750- $135k(hard money pay off)= $18,750

Closing costs: $9k (escrowed taxes and Insurance)

Cash left in the deal= $14,250

  • Math behind it: (18,750-9k)= $9,750 (24k-9,750) = $14,250
  • In other words, I was able to walk with a check for $9,750 even though I received $18,750 cash out from the bank. After my initial investment of $24,000- $9750 (check) leaves me with $14,250 left in deal as mentioned above.
  • The house could conservatively sell for $220,000 in its current state. If you were to put a traditional 20% down you would be $44,000 out of pocket w/o closing costs instead of $14,250. THAT is the power of the BRRRR.

Monthly Debt Service

PITI= $1,501

Income: $2,775

Monthly Cash flow before expenses: $774

What did I learn?

Always, Always, Always have a conservative ARV. The appraisal part of the process is the only part that is completely out of your control. Another human is determining your properties value and it is completely subjective. It still boggles my mind that we do not have a automatized system for appraisals yet.

Don’t be scared to fire your contractor at any point in the process. I would personally rather pay a higher rate for a contractor that does not eat up my time/money and can execute the job correctly.

I will most likely use the delayed financing technique described in the forums on my next BRRRR.

Trying to find a lender who does not require seasoning and still has a competitive rate proved to be a challenge

DO NOT let you emotions get the best of you. It's a business, treat it like one. If I didn't get so angry with my REFI lender who changed his terms from 80% LTV to 75% at the last minute- I would be left with a 30 yr fixed rate @5.96% instead of 6.6%.

It still costs money to complete the BRRRR. You need working capital and should have reserves for the unexpected.

What’s next?

I plan on holding onto this asset. Since completely the BRRRR process, I honestly think it is one of the best methods in REI to scale and build wealth. It is NOT a get reach quick scheme, but a way to have a cash flowing asset with all the deferred maintenance complete without having to put the traditional 20% down. I have since partnered with someone and purchased a 3 family. Our intention was to BRRRR but the lack of comps in the area have steered us towards a flip.

Please comment with your thoughts, tips, advice and stories.

150Reply
698 views

Most Popular Reply

Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

@Michael Doherty, GREAT job! Also an excellent write-up.

I agree with you about appraisals. For 1-4 units comparable sales will be the method they rely on and it is very difficult to compare small multi-family homes. Many times there is insufficient info about the condition of these comparable sales. Tenants don't like pictures taken when a house is being sold so appraisers are sort of left to guess.

For a 5+ unit the income approach would be the method used. So, it should in theory be more precise to predict the appraisal value up front.

When I do a cash-out refi now, I always walk the property with the appraiser myself. I bring printouts of what I think are good comparable sales and I just tell the appraiser what value I am looking for and why. So, I give the appraiser good info and tell them what I think and why. Since I have started doing this my appraisals have gone well. 

See this reply in the discussion

180 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor · Grand Blanc, MI · Member since 2019 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty what is the actual cash flow after accounting for vacancy, capex, mgmt and utilities?

  • Member since 2019 · 38 posts · 32 votes
    6y

    Great detailed post and description of the whole process! I think some of the smaller, yet still very important details, are often overlooked when talking about the BRRRR process.

  • Investor · NY · Member since 2019 · 171 posts · 80 votes
    6y

    Thank you for sharing your experience, it seems like a success to me! I guess the only thing you would change is waiting for the seasoning period to end.

  • Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    I’d love to hear who would finance on the appraised value without seasoning. I’ve call about 10 lenders and keep getting 7-12 month seasoning.

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Brian Brusich $765 after accounting for 3% for repairs, 3% for Cap ex, 3% for vacancy $100 a month for water, 7% for management. I do all my own management, I estimated high for water, and all the deferred maintenance/cap ex is complete which is why i factored 3% instead of 5%. 

    @Brandon Rouer I sent you a dm with the lender who could finance my property w/o seasoning. 

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Brian Brusich my math was wrong in my original post- just realizing this. My income is $2775 a month. My debt service is $1501. So Cash flow before expenses is $1274. Leaving Cash flow after expenses $765. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Awesome write up and congrats! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 107 posts · 129 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty I love this. Exactly what I want to be doing. Great, detailed post. Thank you. I read it several times and am going to print it out for inspiration.

    When you approached the HML, how much did they require you to have in reserves? I know you needed 10% of the purchase & 10% of the rehab, plus closing. I'm assuming they paid the rehab out on a draw schedule.

    Who did you find to GC the rehab? Or did you do that yourself?

  • Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    Nice! I am currently working in my first one as well, expecting similar numbers. I am also looking for a lender that can cash-out without 6 month seasoning. Could you share the contact of the lenders you spoke with? I am in South Florida and wonder if they could be potential lenders. Thanks.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2013 · 162 posts · 127 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    This is very informative and insightful. I'm still searching for a great deals to do BRRRR project. It been a while we still searching. Have you read the book by David Greene on BRRRR? What has been instrumental in you starting BRRRR investing?

    Alex

  • Norfolk, VA · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    6y


    @Michael Doherty

    That's awesome man - congrats! I appreciate the detailed write up.

    I'm currently working on BRRRRing a 4-plex and would love to know who you used for your refinance. Holding costs are so expensive with hard money, so no seasoning would help a ton.

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    Wow, great information and congratulations on your BRRRR!

  • Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 42 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty Thank you very much for taking the time to post this. My husband and I are new and trying to educate ourselves as much as we can. I don’t yet understand all this number crunching but this gives me a real world example to research until I do!

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Stephen Predmore my lender didn't say a specific amount. Reserves are going depend greatly on your own personal DTI. In my case, I have been house hacking since 2016- so not having to pay rent or cover a mortgage really helped my DTI.

    The draw itself is relatively straight forward. Once you complete the work you request the funds to be drawn. It usually took 3-4 days from the time you request the draw until someone is sent out to verify the work. Once the inspector verifies the work is done at the cost of $200 they release the funds. The funds are wired to your account within 1-2 days. 

    Where I found issues is that: my contractor wanted some money upfront so I had to put a lot on my credit card and wait to reimburse myself, so I would recommend having working capital. I would also time the work/draw so that once my contractor was 80-90% done I would request it. Reason being is because, again it takes 3-4 days once you request the funds for someone to actually inspect it. So instead of waiting for the work to be 100% complete.... and then requesting money... I timed it so there was only a day or so in between. 

    Lastly, because it costs $200 (with my lender) every time you request a draw, I clumped a lot of line items together. For example- instead of requesting a draw for 10 new windows for $2,000. I waited for 10 windows, a new furnace and new flooring to be done: for a draw of $15,000 vs $2,000. I only did 3 draws throughout the rehab.

    I had a GC and his team do the rehab- I did minor things (exterior yard work) in my free time. 

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y
  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Alex Bello I sent you a DM
    @Alex Jones I have not read that book yet (although I heard it's awesome). I listened to A LOT of podcasts, read posts like this and asked a lot of questions. I'm more of a visual learner so by writing out the numbers on a piece of paper helped it CLICK.... 

    I would start running your BRRRR numbers as if you were to do a flip. Start with the ARV x .7= X (x-rehab costs=max offer).

    So in my case I knew the house was worth 220k and it needed 30k of rehab. So $220,000 x .7= $154,000. 154k-30k= 124k (max offer). 

    You could use 75% instead of 70% but I'm glad I did 70% because the ARV was slightly off. There's a difference between what something could SELL for... vs what an appraiser will value the property at.

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Thomas Capstick I sent you a DM

    @Alex Lade thank you!

    @Kristie S. feel free to ask any specific questions that are tripping you up, glad to help! 

  • Bar Harbor, ME · Member since 2019 · 1 post · 1 vote
    6y

    Fantastic level of detail and very helpful for a newbie just starting to get my head around BRRRR!

  • Rental Property Investor · American Fork, UT · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    The biggest win here is you actually did something! Even if you walked away with a lot left in the deal the experience of the whole thing is going to set you up for life! Congrats, Michael!

  • Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty Under budget on your first deal?!!! Now, that is a WIN! Clearly, you were adequately informed.

    Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉

  • Rental Property Investor · Lubbock, TX · Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty thanks for sharing ... I’m in the research phase right now!

  • Jamaica, NY · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty thank you for sharing great break done. I’m in the middle of the same problem refi lender just pulled the same thing with us regarding the appraisal can you share the lender info that you ended up using. Thank you

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Andrew Baker thank you- couldn't agree more! 

    @Ola Dantis thank you!

    @Shaune Faust sent you a DM

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 160 posts · 58 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty Congratulations. Very well explained. Am also thinking of doing buy and hold investment. This was a good insight to it. I want to brrrr with a duplex.

  • Rental Property Investor · Springfield, MA · Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    Thank you Michael for your experience and sharing it with us. I’m very new to all of this , I have not started my first deal, but this is very helpful for me , when I start my process. Thanks again and good luck with all your deals going forward.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.