1st BRRRR Success(ish)

1st BRRRR Success(ish)

Michael DohertyBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes

Here's a recount of my first BRRRR (Buy- Renovate-Rent-Refinance-Repeat) deal with specific details/numbers. This post is long and detailed, but for those who spend the time to read through it, I hope it helps.

How did I found the deal:

I found this deal on the MLS. It was a foreclosure and soon after submitting my offer, I found out another investor outbid me. It wasn't until 2 weeks later, my agent informed me the original investors financing fell through and my offer was accepted.

The Property and Location:

The property is an oversized two family house right next to a major Hospital and University in Middletown, Ct. Unit 1 has 3BR 1B and Unit 2 has 3BR 1B with 2 large rooms in the finished attic. From a location standpoint, I was pretty familiar with the area and believed it would be sought after in 3-5 years. I have already started to see many restaurants and breweries popping up in town.

Financing:

Listing: $130k 

Purchase Price: $118k

Financing: Hard Money Lender to fund 90% of the Purchase Price, 90% of the renovations for 3pts and 11.5% interest for 12 months no prepayment penalty. I had only done 2 prior deals (no flips) so the rate was slightly higher.

Rehab Budget: $30k

ARV (estimate): $215k

Rent (estimate): $2,800

  • Scope of work: 
    Convert Unit 2 from electric to gas heat. Unit 1 had already been converted so I knew gas lines were in place.
  • Install new on demand hot water system for 2nd floor unit. 
  • Install Luxury Vinyl Plank flooring (LVP) throughout both units (Home Decorators Collection Blue Cedar Grey from Home Depot)
  • Install new counter tops and cabinets in 2nd floor kitchen
  • New Vanity/shower for 2nd floor unit
  • Install 3 new windows
  • Install Sump pump in basement
  • Update washer dryer hooks (each unit)
  • Paint all ceilings/walls/ trim ( Agreeable Grey from Sherman Williams)
  • New appliances for 2nd floor kitchen (used from Facebook Market Place)

Holding Costs: $8,271

  • 4 months of $1,284 interest only payments
  • Taxes
  • Utilities
  • 6 months Builders Risk/General Liability Premium

After all said and done I spent $28,397 (not included holding costs) and was under budget!

Rent:

I was able to rent the top unit for $1,400 and the bottom unit for $1,375 totaling $2,775.

Refinance:

Because the renovation only took 3 months, I was looking for a lender who would refinance the deal without a seasoning period. After doing some research I came across a lender (found him here on Bigger Pockets) who would do a 75% cash out refi, 30 yr fixed @5.965% for 2.5pts, No seasoning.

When I originally financed the deal with the hard money lender I received two appraisals. The first was an as is appraisal for $120k. It also included a projected appraisal (including the scope of my work) for $220k (5k higher than my ARV!!)

Unfortunately my REFI appraisal came back at $201,500- 17k under the projected appraisal.

My lender then agreed to change the terms to 80% LTV to make this work. Two days before closing they changed their mind and could no longer do the 80% LTV, only 75% LTV. They would not budge and did not let me dispute the appraisal so I ended up dropping them and starting my search over. Moreover, I ended up finding another lender who would finance 75% cash out, 1.5pts, 30 yr fixed at 6.6% no seasoning. Their appraisal it came back @ $200,500- 1k less than the original!!!! At this point I figured I was sh** out of luck and should just eat the difference. However, I ended up writing a very detailed letter to the appraiser explaining why I think certain comps should be used vs others and he ended up increasing the value to $205,000!!!.

So after all said and done here is was the numbers look like:

Hard Money Loan

Hard Money Loan Payoff: $134k

Cash into the deal: $24k (includes 10% down on loan, 10% of rehab costs, closing costs)

Refi: 75% of $205,000= $153,750

Cash out: $153,750- $135k(hard money pay off)= $18,750

Closing costs: $9k (escrowed taxes and Insurance)

Cash left in the deal= $14,250

  • Math behind it: (18,750-9k)= $9,750 (24k-9,750) = $14,250
  • In other words, I was able to walk with a check for $9,750 even though I received $18,750 cash out from the bank. After my initial investment of $24,000- $9750 (check) leaves me with $14,250 left in deal as mentioned above.
  • The house could conservatively sell for $220,000 in its current state. If you were to put a traditional 20% down you would be $44,000 out of pocket w/o closing costs instead of $14,250. THAT is the power of the BRRRR.

Monthly Debt Service

PITI= $1,501

Income: $2,775

Monthly Cash flow before expenses: $774

What did I learn?

Always, Always, Always have a conservative ARV. The appraisal part of the process is the only part that is completely out of your control. Another human is determining your properties value and it is completely subjective. It still boggles my mind that we do not have a automatized system for appraisals yet.

Don’t be scared to fire your contractor at any point in the process. I would personally rather pay a higher rate for a contractor that does not eat up my time/money and can execute the job correctly.

I will most likely use the delayed financing technique described in the forums on my next BRRRR.

Trying to find a lender who does not require seasoning and still has a competitive rate proved to be a challenge

DO NOT let you emotions get the best of you. It's a business, treat it like one. If I didn't get so angry with my REFI lender who changed his terms from 80% LTV to 75% at the last minute- I would be left with a 30 yr fixed rate @5.96% instead of 6.6%.

It still costs money to complete the BRRRR. You need working capital and should have reserves for the unexpected.

What’s next?

I plan on holding onto this asset. Since completely the BRRRR process, I honestly think it is one of the best methods in REI to scale and build wealth. It is NOT a get reach quick scheme, but a way to have a cash flowing asset with all the deferred maintenance complete without having to put the traditional 20% down. I have since partnered with someone and purchased a 3 family. Our intention was to BRRRR but the lack of comps in the area have steered us towards a flip.

Please comment with your thoughts, tips, advice and stories.

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Most Popular Reply

Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

@Michael Doherty, GREAT job! Also an excellent write-up.

I agree with you about appraisals. For 1-4 units comparable sales will be the method they rely on and it is very difficult to compare small multi-family homes. Many times there is insufficient info about the condition of these comparable sales. Tenants don't like pictures taken when a house is being sold so appraisers are sort of left to guess.

For a 5+ unit the income approach would be the method used. So, it should in theory be more precise to predict the appraisal value up front.

When I do a cash-out refi now, I always walk the property with the appraiser myself. I bring printouts of what I think are good comparable sales and I just tell the appraiser what value I am looking for and why. So, I give the appraiser good info and tell them what I think and why. Since I have started doing this my appraisals have gone well. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Levittown, PA · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    Good job on rehab. This is one of the best posts that really give you an insight into all the small details it takes to make it work.. As I'm getting my feet wet, your write up answered alot of my questions. Much appreciated!! Good luck with the next one

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Seth Robbins on the original hard money note or on the Refi into a 30yr fixed? 

    @Alex Sabio @Daniel Rivera thank you!

    @Gabriela Zhang glad you found it useful, thank you!

    @Jason Rosenfeld @Tim Daly @Damon Phillips thank you, I appreciate it. 

    @Andrew W. thank you, good luck on finding your BRRRR

  • Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    I assume that a personal guaranty is required for the hard money loan but not the 30 year fixed.  Is that correct? 

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Dwight Harmon that would be a really great product if it's everything you described. Ironically- Lima One Capitol was the lender that I used to fund the deal. I originally used a local broker here in Ct, but when he didn't have the right product he sourced the deal to Lima One who ended up closing it for me. Let me know what you end up finding out!

    @Eric Williams I messaged you. 

    @Jeff Gagnon your absolutely right- the cash flow before expenses is $1274, I made note of the correction afterwards on this thread. 

    @Laura Verderber couldn't agree more, timeless and goes well with white trim and other finishes. 

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Villota thank you! @Dennis Askey appreciate it, good luck on your search!

    @Seth Robbins my LLC was the buying entity on the hard money note and I am guarantor of the LLC so yes, I believe your correct. My understanding is on longer term debt, those 30 yr loans are non recourse loans meaning: if you fail to pay your mortgage they will take the house but not come after you personally if there is still money owed. I would love for someone to explain that further though.

  • Investor · Central Arkansas · Member since 2018 · 109 posts · 58 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michael Doherty:

    @Brian Brusich my math was wrong in my original post- just realizing this. My income is $2775 a month. My debt service is $1501. So Cash flow before expenses is $1274. Leaving Cash flow after expenses $765. 

    That makes much more sense, thanks for clearing that up. I was about to ask, but decided I would scroll through all the replies first. Thanks for sharing and congrats on what looks like a great BRRRR!

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Great Job Michael.  I appreciate your understanding of need for speed in the remodel by hiring a contractor and not wanting to 'save' money by doing much yourself.  Get pros with crews and tools that can work 8-10 hrs per day on your project.  Spend your time selecting the SOW, selecting finishes and finding money and your next deal.  Also very smart not to fall in love with the property and want to make it perfect as if you were going to live in it (i.e. forgo the granite, but add the gas heat).  It is an investment vehicle, not your retirement home.  I have had friends loose their shirt in a flip because they wanted to do much of the work, did not select finishes timely, and spent way too much on things that added no value.  Exceeded the hard money timetable and had to get an extension - which includes new set of points and closing costs - Ouch.

    If you are going to flip on the next one, don't forget to calculate your short term capital gains tax or at least keep the property for more than a year.  Most folks forget and the bill comes in months after you have forgotten about your deal and are working on the next one.

    And thanks for sharing and responding to all the questions. - Cheers. 

  • Michael DohertyBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · West Hartford, CT · Member since 2016 · 449 posts · 476 votes
    6y

    @Stefan Knieling thank you for the response and the tips! Is it fair to say... as it relates to cap gains, your profit (all proceeds after closing) would be taxed as 'long term gains' based off your personal tax bracket if it's under 12 months?

  • Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Whether the loan is a recourse or non-recourse loan is largely dependent on state law.  According to credissesame.com: "Non-recourse states include Alaska, Arizona, Washington, Utah, Idaho, Minnesota, California, North Carolina, Connecticut, North Dakota, Texas and Oregon. These states only allow non-recourse loans." 
    https://www.creditsesame.com/blog/loans/guide-recourse-non-recourse-loans/  Note: This restriction may not apply investment properties.  

    Whether the loan is recourse/non-recourse depends on where the property is located and the terms of the actual loan. Of course, recourse against an LLC or corporation may not be worth much (if the property is all that is owned by the entity). As such, a personal guaranty offers significant protection to a lender. Further, I suspect that lenders in the noted non-recourse states are permitted to require a personal guaranty despite the restriction on recourse debt.

    To revise my prior statement and generally answer my own question, I'd be surprised if a personal guaranty is not required for any of these investment loans unless there is significant equity.  

  • Realtor · Corona, CA · Member since 2015 · 28 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    Very informative! Thank you! 👏 I'm the opposite, I flipped before I came across my first BRRRR- currently in the process of Refinancing from hard money lender. I'm crossing my finger with the appraisal 🤞🏻

  • Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    This is valuable information especially for us that are new and looking to learn and even mold after others success to lower the risk in the plying field! Thank you.

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @michael doherty Thanks for clearing that up, actually makes the deal look that much better!

  • Charles HolderPro Member
    Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 27 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    Why go from electric to gas?

  • Real Estate Agent · Gulfport, MS · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 15 votes
    6y
    Awesome job! I like how you included the hiccups in the process. Most of the time people's stories make it sound so easy but reality always has some obstacles in he way
  • Charles HolderPro Member
    Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2019 · 141 posts · 27 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    Also how do you decide what workbwill be performed I'm new to RE.. do you have your contractor help you figure this out?

  • Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty thanks for sharing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2019 · 38 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    Thank you for sharing this awesome story with us bro..! 👏

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Washington DC, Washington DC · Member since 2017 · 13 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty thank you for sharing and congratulations.

  • Rental Property Investor · Fairfield, CT · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    Michael Doherty - Great job in sharing info, including challenges and successes. Congrats on your BRRR - well done. If you were closer to the Fairfield mkt, I'd invite you to attend a small private group on like-minded investors.

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty nice job! I wish someone can hook me up with MLS listing. Can I ask if the $2775 includes utilities, or that's just rent for both units? Thanks

  • Rental Property Investor · Dededo, GU · Member since 2017 · 20 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty

    So you found a person to loan you majority of the money initially and refinance that loan with an actual institution?

    How does that transition work?

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    To clarify your tax liability on a flip:

    Long-term capital gains are derived from investments held for more than one year and are taxed according to graduated thresholds for taxable income at 0%, 15%, or 20%. A short-term capital gain results from an asset owned for a year or less and is taxed as though it were ordinary income.

    If you flip a home and sell it before you have owned it 12 months, your gains may be taxed as regular income which is typically higher than long term rates.  In your state I believe you have both federal and state income tax.  You could do a 1031 Exchange, but that gets more complicated, options are taken away from you as funds are transferred to a third party escrow and you have to pick 3 possible purchased that are of equal or higher value within 18 months.  Deals can fall though and this may not work.

    Any home flippers out there - please advise Michael how you deal/budget for the Grim Reaper...er...tax man. 

  • Realtor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    When you said "I funded my most recent project with the same lender for 9.99% And 2.5 points so it does get cheaper with experience and relationship."

    What is the difference between the rates AND the points?  Are you referring to paying points to buy down the rate?

  • Investor · Southern California · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    @Michael Doherty Thank you for sharing all the details. It is of great value to me as I just made my first offer on a BRRRR and the biggest unknown is the ARV. All other numbers for this deal are right for my goals except a differentiation in comps.

  • Member since 2018 · 31 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Hey man awesome thread! I currently own 3 duplexes in Middletown. Renovated them all and they cashflow great. Struggling to get a good appraisal value for them hasn't prevented my BRRRR. I have a house on high street, Grove Street and Erin Street. I would love to know where your place is. I have been in this area for the last 4 years and have seen the change. Dm me with your lenders please!!!

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