1031 from 1 property to buying 3, generating cashflow

1031 from 1 property to buying 3, generating cashflow

Rental Property Investor · San Diego CA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 51 votes

Hi BP Community,

Inspired by seeing other people’s posts on their success, I figured I would do a post as well and write a summary report on it.

Background:

I live in California and own out-of-state rental properties. I’ve been investing in out of state rental properties in Arizona since 2011. With Arizona housing market going up, the low rent to value ratio made me decide it was time to invest elsewhere. After reading through many posts on BP, and through a local meetup where I met many like-minded investors, I started investing in Huntsville, Alabama mid 2019.

In Nov’19, I sold a rental property in Arizona for $380,000. The property was purchased for $240,000. The property appreciated $140,000 since purchase and the cashflow was close to break even. I decided to do a 1031 exchange, and purchased 3 properties with that money. Below is the story on 1 out of the 3 properties I purchased.

The Deal:

My realtor found the listing on MLS. It was in the Madison school district, a well desired location. The property was a 3/2.5 single family home (with bonus room in attic that could be used as a bedroom) 2400 sq ft. Comparables were around $240,000. The property was being sold AS IS for $195,000.

My realtor walked through and we reviewed the itemized repair list. Based on list price, repair cost and ARV. We made the full list price offer for the property, and offer was accepted.

During the grace period, I had my general contractor, and my home inspector conduct the walk through, so repair cost was as accurate as can be.

I contacted my property management to pull rental comps and the house can rent for $1.895. To no surprise, Zillow rental estimates were way off.

In summary, walking into the deal:

$195,000 (Sell Price) + $20,000 (Repair Price) = $215,000.

Expected Rent $1,895/month. (Zillow estimated $1500/month)

The property did not meet the 1% rule (i.e. $1895 x 100 was less than $195k), but it was close enough in my books, and the CoCROI met my criteria, which will be shared later.

The Financing:

Proceeds from 1031 exchange were used as the down payment, and I used cash for repairs and holding cost.

It was my first time doing a 1031 exchange and thanks to all the knowledge from BP members, this was a very smooth process. Initially, I was really worried about the 45 day period on finding the 3 properties I wanted to purchase, but I was able to find this property within the first week of the 45 days.

The Rehab and Renting:

The property closed the week before Thanksgiving, I called my GC to get started. Unfortunately, there were some delays with his previous project, and in addition to Thanksgiving, Christmas, and the New Year holidays, work did not start until January 2nd. So the property sat idle for the entire month of December.

I have never met my GC, but was highly recommended by one of my team members in AL. I was able to communicate with him through many text messages every few days or so, to track progress, and had a total of 1 phone call since work started to discuss additional things I wanted done after work started.

The rehab took 5 weeks, as we had agreed on from the start, and everything came out great.

Keys were passed over to my property manager and the property was listed for rent at $1,895. Getting it rented out was a struggle. The property was not listed on Zillow as Zillow started charging for rental listings, and my property management firm did not want to pay for that. After a few back and forths with my property management, it was finally listed on Zillow. Shortly after, Covid19 happened, then my property manager left the property management firm during the stay-at-home order. The series of issues translated to the property being listed for 40 days with minimal showings. Once AL started re-opening from Covid19, we reduced the rent price to $1,850, with a first month $500 move in incentive discount. Within 3 days, we found a renter.

The Result

Purchase price: $195,000

Rehab: $21,000

Rent: $1,850

Cashflow: $499/month (with assumptions baked in, mgmt. fee, expenditure etc)

CoCROI: 8.59% (Based on downpayment and rehab cost)

CoCROI:28.4% (Excluding downpayment since that was proceeds from 1031)

Rental Property Calculator Report

Lessons Learned

  • 1. Don’t trust Zillow rental or sale comps. I’ve known that for years, but I always look at it still. I can’t help it, but it’s just so convenient to look at and make assumptions that it’s somewhat accurate, but it just never is. Go with your team that you trust, and can get you the info fast so you can make decisions.
  1. 2. Avoid buying during the end of year holiday season or agree with the GC prior to starting when it needs to be done by, I just didn’t like having the property sit idle for whole month of December.
  2. 3. Analyze rental properties regularly, if a housing market is hot and the rent to value is no longer attractive, figure out how to move that money elsewhere to have better cash flow.
  3. 4. 1031 exchange can be stressful, but 45 days is longer than I thought. i.e. I started looking before the start of the 45 day period, and having a good realtor really helps smooth things out.
  4. 5. Have cash reserve for holding cost due to unforeseen issues, such as GC delayed due to other projects, Covid 19, etc.

Pictures of Before and After

6Reply
98 views

Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 11 votes
6y

Good job!  I havent 1031 exchanged as of yet, but plan to in my next sale.

See this reply in the discussion

25 Replies

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  • Rental Property Investor · Fremont, CA · Member since 2016 · 299 posts · 222 votes
    6y

    Hi @Marcus B Hsu!

    Thanks for sharing your experience! And congrats on this deal! Madison schools are one of the best in the area. Thats what I love about huntsville is that its a perfect blend of cash flow and appreciation.

    I am pretty confident that you will get good appreciation in the coming years!

    The rehab looks really good specially the kitchen! I would love to also see the other 2 properties!

  • Property Manager · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2019 · 131 posts · 237 votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu Thanks for sharing this! The rehab looks really good! Were you able to find tenants strictly off Zillow or were you able to use other listing sites via listing syndication or manual creation? How are you managing your properties while being located out of state? What have been your biggest challenges so far? 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego CA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    Thanks!! @Gorden Lopes, yes Huntsville does have great potential upside in appreciation and good cash flow. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego CA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    Hi @Luke Marsh, we found the renter through Zillow. The property is managed by property management (but i helped with getting it advertised on zillow). I do manage out of state rentals but not this one. Biggest challenges with  managing out of state rentals yourself is when lease ends, and when renters who are late on rent. For most other things, it can be done pretty easily over the phone/email. I will have to write about managing out of state rentals on a future post.

  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2019 · 956 posts · 600 votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu I've seen a few investors here utilize some sort of online program for self-managing from afar. I wonder if others have had any experience with that? I've seen a bad property manager REALLY miss manage properties and cause way more headache than was necessary vs what a great PM would have done, so I feel nervous to advise someone to self manage from so far! 

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu, You worked hard and that allowed you to maximize your 45 days.  You handled that 1031 exchange like a champ - Congrats!!!

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
  • Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Good job!  I havent 1031 exchanged as of yet, but plan to in my next sale.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego CA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 51 votes
    6y
  • Rental Property Investor · Fremont, CA · Member since 2016 · 299 posts · 222 votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu

    If you need references on good PM companies in Huntsville then please let me know.

    I have few rental properties in Huntsville and got a pm who works with out of state investors.

  • Rental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu great overview and solid lessons learned. Thanks for sharing! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Havre de Grace, MD · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Hi just curious what the rent would have been had you left it in its previous condition? It looked like things were in good shape just not updated. Wondering what your return on the rehab is?

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu I did two 1031s in 2014 for 9 our of state properties. I regret it.

    Today I invest in syndications where they do cost segs and gets me bonus depreciation. It totally makes 1031s obsolete... I don't know why people do them.

  • Rental Property Investor · Allentown PA, United States · Member since 2016 · 567 posts · 442 votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu awesome job, before pictures honestly don’t look bad. How much rent could you have gotten for it if you didn’t bother doing any rehab?

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego CA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Bill Goodland, @Alison Evans,

    It's a fair point, the rent difference would be small relative to the rehab cost.

  • Rental Property Investor · Allentown PA, United States · Member since 2016 · 567 posts · 442 votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu not a criticism, just wondering. Obviously it looks great now, just wondering what your thoughts were on the ROI of the rehab given the cash, holding costs and opportunity costs of not renting it sooner

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego CA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Bill Goodland, The holding/opportunity cost was worse than I anticipated, with property sitting idle in December, followed by Covid19 and property mgmt changes. Had i known all these, i definitely would have just rented it out and worry about rehab at a later date. 

    If none of those delays had happened, i think we are basically comparing:

    1. No rehab- ~$200 less/month in rent. so difference of $2400/year in less revenue.

    2. Rehab- 5-7 weeks difference (i.e. holding + rehab (~$22k)). 

    So from purely rent, rehab would not make financial sense. But from ARV standpoint and future cashout refi potential, it would. My view (and i could be wrong) of it was to have the rehab done so it improves my future exit strategies.

    Still learning the real estate game so definitely appreciate your question, it did make me think on why i did what i did :).

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    @Lane Kawaoka, Just curious - What happens to all of that bonus depreciation when the syndication sells?  

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
  • Roni E.Pro Member
    Specialist · Earth 2.0 · Member since 2019 · 598 posts · 271 votes
    6y
    Have to recapture all that depreciation.

    Originally posted by @Dave Foster:

    @Lane Kawaoka, Just curious - What happens to all of that bonus depreciation when the syndication sells?  

  • Dave FosterBusiness Member
    Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    @Roni E., Exactly! 

    The 1031 Investor5137 Reviews
  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    6y

    You mean paying 25% In extra tax to borrow money for a couple years? Who would do that? Why? Are they just trying to goose the numbers? They shoulda done a 1031 exchange instead and saved all the extra taxes. Or are they screwed because they bought in a syndication?

  • Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marcus B Hsu:

    Hi BP Community,

    Inspired by seeing other people’s posts on their success, I figured I would do a post as well and write a summary report on it.

    Background:

    I live in California and own out-of-state rental properties. I’ve been investing in out of state rental properties in Arizona since 2011. With Arizona housing market going up, the low rent to value ratio made me decide it was time to invest elsewhere. After reading through many posts on BP, and through a local meetup where I met many like-minded investors, I started investing in Huntsville, Alabama mid 2019.

    In Nov’19, I sold a rental property in Arizona for $380,000. The property was purchased for $240,000. The property appreciated $140,000 since purchase and the cashflow was close to break even. I decided to do a 1031 exchange, and purchased 3 properties with that money. Below is the story on 1 out of the 3 properties I purchased.

    The Deal:

    My realtor found the listing on MLS. It was in the Madison school district, a well desired location. The property was a 3/2.5 single family home (with bonus room in attic that could be used as a bedroom) 2400 sq ft. Comparables were around $240,000. The property was being sold AS IS for $195,000.

    My realtor walked through and we reviewed the itemized repair list. Based on list price, repair cost and ARV. We made the full list price offer for the property, and offer was accepted.

    During the grace period, I had my general contractor, and my home inspector conduct the walk through, so repair cost was as accurate as can be.

    I contacted my property management to pull rental comps and the house can rent for $1.895. To no surprise, Zillow rental estimates were way off.

    In summary, walking into the deal:

    $195,000 (Sell Price) + $20,000 (Repair Price) = $215,000.

    Expected Rent $1,895/month. (Zillow estimated $1500/month)

    The property did not meet the 1% rule (i.e. $1895 x 100 was less than $195k), but it was close enough in my books, and the CoCROI met my criteria, which will be shared later.

    The Financing:

    Proceeds from 1031 exchange were used as the down payment, and I used cash for repairs and holding cost.

    It was my first time doing a 1031 exchange and thanks to all the knowledge from BP members, this was a very smooth process. Initially, I was really worried about the 45 day period on finding the 3 properties I wanted to purchase, but I was able to find this property within the first week of the 45 days.

    The Rehab and Renting:

    The property closed the week before Thanksgiving, I called my GC to get started. Unfortunately, there were some delays with his previous project, and in addition to Thanksgiving, Christmas, and the New Year holidays, work did not start until January 2nd. So the property sat idle for the entire month of December.

    I have never met my GC, but was highly recommended by one of my team members in AL. I was able to communicate with him through many text messages every few days or so, to track progress, and had a total of 1 phone call since work started to discuss additional things I wanted done after work started.

    The rehab took 5 weeks, as we had agreed on from the start, and everything came out great.

    Keys were passed over to my property manager and the property was listed for rent at $1,895. Getting it rented out was a struggle. The property was not listed on Zillow as Zillow started charging for rental listings, and my property management firm did not want to pay for that. After a few back and forths with my property management, it was finally listed on Zillow. Shortly after, Covid19 happened, then my property manager left the property management firm during the stay-at-home order. The series of issues translated to the property being listed for 40 days with minimal showings. Once AL started re-opening from Covid19, we reduced the rent price to $1,850, with a first month $500 move in incentive discount. Within 3 days, we found a renter.

    The Result

    Purchase price: $195,000

    Rehab: $21,000

    Rent: $1,850

    Cashflow: $499/month (with assumptions baked in, mgmt. fee, expenditure etc)

    CoCROI: 8.59% (Based on downpayment and rehab cost)

    CoCROI:28.4% (Excluding downpayment since that was proceeds from 1031)

    Rental Property Calculator Report

    Lessons Learned

    • 1. Don’t trust Zillow rental or sale comps. I’ve known that for years, but I always look at it still. I can’t help it, but it’s just so convenient to look at and make assumptions that it’s somewhat accurate, but it just never is. Go with your team that you trust, and can get you the info fast so you can make decisions.
    1. 2. Avoid buying during the end of year holiday season or agree with the GC prior to starting when it needs to be done by, I just didn’t like having the property sit idle for whole month of December.
    2. 3. Analyze rental properties regularly, if a housing market is hot and the rent to value is no longer attractive, figure out how to move that money elsewhere to have better cash flow.
    3. 4. 1031 exchange can be stressful, but 45 days is longer than I thought. i.e. I started looking before the start of the 45 day period, and having a good realtor really helps smooth things out.
    4. 5. Have cash reserve for holding cost due to unforeseen issues, such as GC delayed due to other projects, Covid 19, etc.

    Pictures of Before and After

     1031s are not easy! Good job! 

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 66 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    Congrats on a solid deal out in Madison! Rehab looks great with 20k into it. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Accredited investors go into dozens of deals. So the other projects will be getting depreciations. Its like being drug addict going from the next high to the next... without the drugs. But in this case without the costly 1031 fees.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Decatur, AL · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    @Marcus B Hsu sounds like a nice deal! Thanks for sharing. Reading the real numbers and hearing this kind of story is super encouraging. Keep it up!

  • Investor · Atlanta · Member since 2016 · 58 posts · 54 votes
    6y

    Congrats @Marcus B Hsu. Thanks for the detail explanation of your deal. It helps us all. 

    I've dealt with @Dave Foster before (my transaction was a bit more complex and didn't work out) but he does indeed guide you with your 1031 and helps you every step of the way. Will definitely work with him again on another transaction.

    Cheers.

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