Completed Long Distance BRRR of Turnkey Purchase

Completed Long Distance BRRR of Turnkey Purchase

Rental Property Investor · Batavia, IL · Member since 2018 · 452 posts · 672 votes

I always see so many questions about turnkey properties, long-distance investing, and BRRR'ing properties so I thought I'd share my first investment experience since it consists of all these things.

Details:

Purchased this property in March of 2019 for $107,500 from a turnkey provider using traditional financing and 20% down payment at 5.875%. It is located in a Plainfield, IN which is a suburb of Indianapolis with a great school district, growing population, quick access to the airport and downtown, and is located near large shopping plaza. The plan was always to convert the den into a 3rd bedroom once the renters moved out, which I’d hoped wouldn’t be for a long time, but ended up being 9 months after purchase due to an unexpected death of my tenant’s father. The quality of work performed by the turnkey provider was questionable (at best), and I knew there was work to be done. After getting a contractor out to take a look at the den for adding a closet and converting it to an additional bedroom I learned the full extent of the cover up work done by the turnkey provider’s contractors.

Rehab:

Despite having new vinyl flooring installed upon purchase, the flooring was installed so poorly that it had to be completely replaced again less than 1 year later throughout all 1200+ sq. ft of the house. The house had several floor joists and trusses in the attic that were cut through in order to run venting and pipes that needed to be shored up, some rotted subflooring that was discovered in the bathroom, some drywall needed to be replaced, the whole house was repainted, added a water softener due to the hard water from the well leading to discoloration of the tub, and upgraded the fixtures to make it look nicer. All in, the renovation cost 12k and gave me some additional peace of mind because I knew there was some things that needed to be addressed following the poor work done by the turnkey company.

Refinance:

Last month I wrapped up my refinance of the property and was pleasantly surprised to see that it appraised for 152k which allowed me to refinance at a better rate of 4.75% and get much of my money back out of the property. I really struggled with the decision of whether or not to pull out as much as I could with an 80%LTV or to stay a little more conservative to improve the cash flow and give me more flexibility with my equity. I ended up staying more conservative and refinancing at 70% LTV which allowed me to pull-out about 19k and thus recouped my cost of rehab + 7k of my down payment back. This was initiated pre-COVID 19 and the refinance was a long process with a lot of setbacks and issues that came up. I have to thank @Michael Facchini for getting the loan to close and showing what a stand up job he and his team can do in a chaotic environment.

Financial details:

Pre-Rehab the property rented for $1225/month with a mortgage (PITI) of $732/month which after budgeting 10% for PM, 8% for cap ex, 8% for repairs, and 8% for vacancy left me with ~$75/mo cash flow. Post-Rehab the rent was only able to increase to $1250/mo, but I also had the vacancy in January and early February which made it more challenging to find tenants since it literally went on the market the first week of January after the holidays. So the numbers work out to $1250/mo rent and a new mortgage of $790 leaving me with a projected cash flow of $40/month. This is part of why I chose a lower LTV was to keep positive cash flow while still enabling me to pull out 19k to keep as reserves for the property which has proven especially important with the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Doing this project from out of state presented a lot of challenges for me and I relied heavily on the contractors and my PM to provide me with updates, pictures, lots of phone conversations, and a great deal of learning for how to navigate a long-distance rehab. I found the contractors from a recommendation from another BP member (@Mike D'Arrigoand they did a great job and were fantastic to work with. I relied a lot on the advice and recommendations from fellow BP members in the Indianapolis area to help get this project to completion so I appreciate all the help. While I know that BRRR'ing a turnkey investment from out of state will likely go south more often than not, this one has worked out for me and I look forward to growing my portfolio.

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Most Popular Reply

Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 102 posts · 48 votes
6y

How is down payment of 20% on a 100K property 7K?

Also all this effort for 40$/month cash flow is not worth it.Maybe for the forced appreciation..

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 34 posts · 22 votes
    6y

    Hi Scott. Thank you for posting about your success. I am considering doing a long distance BRRR (I invest in rentals about 6 hours from where I live), and so I value hearing from others about their experiences. I am curious what your investing goals are? Are you investing more for long term appreciation? What were your short and long term goals with this property?

  • Financial Advisor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 294 posts · 165 votes
    6y

    @Scott Passman

    Bravo! Plainfield is often overlooked by so many focusing only on the near east, south sides. Glad you found one that you could make work.

    Danny McNulty

    Financial Advisor

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 36 posts · 29 votes
    6y

    Nice Job. How many extra hours per week do you think you put into the BRRR method rather than doing straight turnkey?

  • Nick GiulioniPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Carmel, IN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 615 votes
    6y

    Great work - love to see this!

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 102 posts · 48 votes
    6y

    How is down payment of 20% on a 100K property 7K?

    Also all this effort for 40$/month cash flow is not worth it.Maybe for the forced appreciation..

  • Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 34 posts · 22 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Deniz Eker:

    How is down payment of 20% on a 100K property 7K?

    Also all this effort for 40$/month cash flow is not worth it.Maybe for the forced appreciation..

    This is why I asked him to clarify to us what his investing goals are.  I am wondering if he invested in this property because he is confident in a strong appreciation in this market over the next few years? It does seem like an awful lot of work for $40 cash flow  

  • Rental Property Investor · Batavia, IL · Member since 2018 · 452 posts · 672 votes
    6y

    @Deniz Eker @Gina Cook  To answer your first question, the 19k that I pulled out after leaving 30% equity in the property meant that I recouped the cost of the rehab (12k) and then the rest (7k) could be considered as getting part of my down payment back on the property.  So I still have 19k left in the property from my original down payment.  

    You are right that it has been a lot of work for what is currently cash flowing at about $40/month, but this was a bit of an unplanned BRRR. I purchased the property because it had solid intangibles: in a great town with 9/10 and 10/10 school district, 20 minutes from downtown Indianapolis, 6 minutes from the airport, large shopping plaza with stores and big chain restaurants at the end of the street, and it is inside an opportunity zone with strong potential to see some good development over the next 10 years. It is the last street in the town before it changes to the west side of Indy. The property was in solid condition and I knew it had the den that could be easily converted into a bedroom which would add equity by changing it from a 2bd/1.5 bath to a 3bd/1.5 bath, but definitely knew it needed some work in what I'd hoped would be 3-5 years. That ended up being less than 1 year due to the unexpected vacancy and some issues that were discovered when the contractor got inside. I fully expected it to rent for $1300/month post rehab which would have boosted the cash flow, however, being in the dead of winter right after Christmas limited the tenant pool and I decided to bring the rents down to help fill the vacancy rather than try to wait it out another possible 1-2 months.

    My goals are to hold for the long-term with no intent to sell as long is it cash flows and makes sense financially over the long haul.  This has provided some good learning experiences for my first rental and I'm in a position now to acquire my next so I'm looking for small multifamily next (2-4 units) to work on scaling up.  I definitely made some mistakes over the past year, but that comes with the territory and I have learned some valuable lessons as a result.  I know this wasn't a home run by any stretch, but I think it has been a pretty solid start and am pleased that I was able to increase the appraisal by 45k in a year with 12k of work. 

    @Nick Giulioni @Daniel McNulty  Thanks guys, I appreciate it

    @Chad Stark I didn't intend to turn this into a BRRR, however, for the 6 weeks the renovation was going on I definitely spent about 3-5 hours/week on the phone with the contractors, looking up different information, talking with people about some of the situations that arose etc. It was a stressful period for sure, but things have worked out well so far and I'm thankful to have some of the underlying issues I knew were there fixed up.

  • Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 34 posts · 22 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Scott Passman:

    @Deniz Eker   To answer your first question, the 19k that I pulled out after leaving 30% equity in the property meant that I recouped the cost of the rehab (12k) and then the rest (7k) could be considered as getting part of my down payment back on the property.  So I still have 19k left in the property from my original down payment.  

    You are right that it has been a lot of work for what is currently cash flowing at about $40/month, but this was a bit of an unplanned BRRR. I purchased the property because it had solid intangibles: in a great town with 9/10 and 10/10 school district, 20 minutes from downtown Indianapolis, 6 minutes from the airport, large shopping plaza with stores and big chain restaurants at the end of the street, and it is inside an opportunity zone with strong potential to see some good development over the next 10 years. It is the last street in the town before it changes to the west side of Indy. The property was in solid condition and I knew it had the den that could be easily converted into a bedroom which would add equity by changing it from a 2bd/1.5 bath to a 3bd/1.5 bath, but definitely knew it needed some work in what I'd hoped would be 3-5 years. That ended up being less than 1 year due to the unexpected vacancy and some issues that were discovered when the contractor got inside. I fully expected it to rent for $1300/month post rehab which would have boosted the cash flow, however, being in the dead of winter right after Christmas limited the tenant pool and I decided to bring the rents down to help fill the vacancy rather than try to wait it out another possible 1-2 months.

    My goals are to hold for the long-term with no intent to sell as long is it cash flows and makes sense financially over the long haul.  This has provided some good learning experiences for my first rental and I'm in a position now to acquire my next so I'm looking for small multifamily next (2-4 units) to work on scaling up.  I definitely made some mistakes over the past year, but that comes with the territory and I have learned some valuable lessons as a result.  I know this wasn't a home run by any stretch, but I think it has been a pretty solid start and am pleased that I was able to increase the appraisal by 45k in a year with 12k of work. 

    This is fantastic! I love this so much, particularly your pride in your success.  Thank you so much for elaborating on the details of what your goals were here! I think you may have inspired me to actually post my own recent success story    Thanks and good luck in your future projects! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Scott Passman is this considered a success to you? You had to spend more money on a property that wasn’t turnkey at all, and your rent barely moved?

    I’m glad you had some equity upside but this risk vs the reward doesn’t seem there at all.

  • Rental Property Investor · Batavia, IL · Member since 2018 · 452 posts · 672 votes
    6y

    @Caleb Heimsoth Absolutely.  Like I mentioned above, I'm well aware this wasn't a home run deal, but it was my first deal and I was able to acquire a solid property in a great area that should steadily produce income for a long time.  As you know turnkey can mean many things and this property was rent ready, but I knew it had some things I would need to upgrade in the near future.  I could easily reduce my budgeted cap ex and repairs to 5% each, which are numbers many investors on BP and locally use, to "improve" my cash flow to ~$115/month and make it look much better. But the truth is I budget conservatively and would rather have excess reserves than be scrambling to come with cash when expenses come up.  

    The equity gain through forced appreciation has also allowed me to have very strong cash reserves that could help me cover the monthly expenses for a couple years should I get no rents with all the COVID-19 stuff going on.  So that security of this asset is a huge piece of mind.  First deals are rarely a slam dunk, so to get a quality asset which can produce cash flow even with conservative budgeting and allow me to draw out enough equity to give me a lot of financial flexibility is a win in my book.  I know this wouldn't be considered a great success for many others who've been doing this for a while, but I'm in it for the long haul and my wins will get better as I learn and do more.  

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 102 posts · 48 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Scott Passman:

    @Caleb Heimsoth Absolutely.  Like I mentioned above, I'm well aware this wasn't a home run deal, but it was my first deal and I was able to acquire a solid property in a great area that should steadily produce income for a long time.  As you know turnkey can mean many things and this property was rent ready, but I knew it had some things I would need to upgrade in the near future.  I could easily reduce my budgeted cap ex and repairs to 5% each, which are numbers many investors on BP and locally use, to "improve" my cash flow to ~$115/month and make it look much better. But the truth is I budget conservatively and would rather have excess reserves than be scrambling to come with cash when expenses come up.  

    The equity gain through forced appreciation has also allowed me to have very strong cash reserves that could help me cover the monthly expenses for a couple years should I get no rents with all the COVID-19 stuff going on.  So that security of this asset is a huge piece of mind.  First deals are rarely a slam dunk, so to get a quality asset which can produce cash flow even with conservative budgeting and allow me to draw out enough equity to give me a lot of financial flexibility is a win in my book.  I know this wouldn't be considered a great success for many others who've been doing this for a while, but I'm in it for the long haul and my wins will get better as I learn and do more.  

    Even though I mainly like cash flow and appreciation as a bonus I congratulate you on your first business .Good luck on many more to come!

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 537 votes
    6y

    @Scott Passman, who is the “turnkey” provider you used?

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