Commercial Real Estate Agent · Boston, MA · Member since 2008 · 114 posts · 15 votes
I'm a free-market person, but if the autos go under, we'll have millions of more people without work. Do you guys think we need a bailout or maybe some of you have some other ideas?
Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2008 · 792 posts · 30 votes
17y
I don't think that there is a simple solution to this.
However, my belief structure tells me that our auto-workers are WAY over-paid compared to the global competition. Continuing this trend will only delay the inevitable collapse. I would rather collapse sooner, than later.
If I were an auto-worker, I would be looking to increase my skill set.
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
17y
I believe I read something from Pelosi about requiring a rigid set of requirements on the car makers if there was a bailout.
While I'm against a bailout, it is definitely a scary proposition having all of those people lose their jobs. Whole cities will become unemployed. The impact on the US and global economies would be devistating. Maybe it needs to happen . . . I just don't know.
If the people in power were to do a bailout, I'd certainly require a few things, including mandatory increased mileage standards as part of the deal. Additionally, since it is the American people who are financing these companies, we should ABSOLUTELY get a piece of the pie. The public should own a part of the company and be rewarded financially as profits return. Perhaps an Auto Czar should sit on the board of directors as well . . .
While I do not want government controlling any industry, we're already doing it. If we can't stop it from happening, at least we can do so sensibly.
Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2008 · 792 posts · 30 votes
17y
I agree Josh. Millions of lost jobs is a scary thought. Unfortunately, one of the only things that we seem to be worse at than producing cars that people want is providing governmental oversight.
Pelosi's rigid standards is a classic oxymoron. I fear the rigid standards of Fannie and Freddie is what we would get.
Real Estate Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2008 · 146 posts · 5 votes
17y
The problem is, who's next?
Right now it seems like everyone who's big enough and can impact the country is saying "oh look, let's just say we suck and can't run a business, the government will help us out"
It's obvious who will follow the motor industry, it would be the airlines (yet again)
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
I worked in the auto industry for 12 years and feel qualified to discuss this issue.
The politicians, oil companies, unions, and automakers are all bedfellows that have created their own demise. To blame this mess on the wages of the grunt workers on the floor is just too easy of a target.
Overpaid? Maybe, but the companies were making money hand over fist and I feel those wages were justified. How can the company ask for a pay cut from the worker when their executives were getting multi-million dollar bonuses?
Political Issue: There are certain tax breaks and incentives that companies like Toyota and Hyundai have been given that allowed them an advantage over the American companies.
Major Company Issue: The big issues is that other companies do not have the huge legacy costs of retired workers that the Big 3 have.
Major Union Issue: Protecting their existence. Union leaders are not as stupid as many folks think. They know that they are a dinosaur and are fighting to survive. While I believe that unions have their place and are much needed for the protection of the worker, they have become a bloated bureaucracy that creates an environment with no incentive for productivity.
The problem I have with the companies is that if I saw the writing on the wall in 2002, how did they miss it?
I'll tell you.......Greed......that's how.....
Not unlike the real estate business, they experienced their own bubble. The companies were riding high on the cash cow that is the SUV. Instead of planning ahead for the next cycle, they squeezed every dime out of their truck and SUV divisions.
The auto companies got lazy & greedy. The Unions remains inflexible, and the government continues to allow unfair import/export practices.
A bailout? Not really sure money is the real answer. While it would crush me emotionally to see many of my friends and family become a victim of this industry, I feel a bailout might just extend their pain and not solve the problem. Maybe we just need to get this over with.
We ALL need to understand that to enjoy Capitalism in good times, there is a price. That price is to live the brutality of Capitalism in the bad times. Americans always want to have their cake and eat it too, and this is just not possible,
It is very clear to me that these companies need a new business plan, the government needs to create an equal playing field, and the union needs to become more flexible.
Until that happens, throwing money at a sinking ship in order to pay the sailors who are not fixing the holes is a waste.
Real Estate Investor · Member since 2008 · 340 posts · 34 votes
17y
I consider Ted Turner a tool. However, I saw him the other night on Lou Dobbs and his quote was, "Let them fail!" He went on to say that he and most people saw this coming over a decade ago.
I have a hard time handing over 25 billion dollars to such an inept bunch of characters (executives, middle management and the UAW). I feel like a broken MP3 here, but once again this is a systemic (I am using that word a lot these days) failure. The entire big 3 have to be overhauled. From top to bottom. We should not hand over 25 billion bucks, if the big 3 are going to act as business as usual.
Lakebay, WA · Member since 2008 · 48 posts · 0 votes
17y
American Airlines course of action would be my preferred action. The government did not bail out AA but let them file bankruptcy and reorganize their opporations under BK protection. The auto maker's as well as the unions are at fault for a lot of their problems. Let them ride as they are and be forced to make a new working game plan. No more CEO million dollar parachutes and bonuses, pay for performance is how it should work. Also, when has the government ever paid back the public for money they have more or less taken from us without our permission, social security is a great example of government borrrowing money without paying it back. I think Boeing in Washington state is next big company that will fail if the company and the unions can not build a better mouse trap to operate in.
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
YES, YES, YES! We need to bailout the auto industry. Why, because I bought some Ford stock betting that the taxpayers WILL bail Ford out! So, c'mon guys - let's all get on board with the bailout! Give your tax dollars generously so that I can make some money on my stock! It's the right thing to do (for me)!!!
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
17y
I did that wrong. I agree with Tony. We're on a slippery slope with all these bailouts. Not too long ago, our national debt amounted to $437,000 for every man , woman and child in the US. Some can afford it, but not very many. It seems we're choosing socialistic policies and will have govt involved in all facets. Currently in banks, insurance, autos soon and it will never end. American Express is my guess for the next handout.
Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2008 · 553 posts · 20 votes
17y
Myself being from MI near FLINT the "Auto city" I can tell you first hand what kind of a cracked out poverty ridden community will resault from lost automotive manufacturing jobs.
I got the Hell out of there! It be bad
Last time I was thier I saw a guy casually walking down the street branishing an AK-47 like it was just anouther day in the life of. Cop rode by on a bike did not say **** guy did not look twice just said fu** da police!
The few people I stay in touch with tell me it is worse now!
You can not give houses away!
I've had that post up in bulk REO for a week not one person even inquired on it other than Chris & that was just to see if I really had a contact.
Lender · California and Florida · Member since 2008 · 319 posts · 194 votes
17y
Green sure is sexy until oil is under $50. I suspect all those green initiatives will be much less a priority. I have a few friends in the utility and solar business and they fully expect a green backlash.
The auto industry is definitely in need of some sort of reform. Where does this bailout end?!
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
No, no stop on Ford. I'm not the least bit concerned at this point. I'm only in for $1.62. Stocks in bankruptcy become extremely volatile based on news. It could be $1.29 now; $4.00 an hour later; then back to $1.00 the hour after that. Once it becomes apparent that YOU and I are going to bail out the big 3, it should pop!
Real Estate Investor · Wyoming, MI · Member since 2008 · 195 posts · 10 votes
17y
I worked in the auto industry for years..
Harrison's post nailed it.
With regards to the big 3.. a bailout will only Prolong their death. Bailouts do not Fix their issues that got them to where they are at now. A bailout will not improve management, make better cars and increase sales. AND the bailout Loan is suppose to an 'investment' that the gov't(us taxpayers) get paid back with interest... Is it a smart investment? too risky for me.
You reap what you sow...what REALLY bothers me is the people at the top who are responsible for people at the middle an the bottom losing THEIR jobs- get RICH no matter what.
Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
17y
This is probably going to get pretty ugly if the bailout isn’t revived. I’m glad it fell apart, at some point we need to let the free-market system do what it does best. The Big 3 will either adapt or die. We can’t keep bailing everyone out.
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Certainly we can...provided the printing presses in Washington doesn't run out of ink and we don't run out of trees with which to make paper.
The real question is what your money will be worth when they're done. In 1781, after a similar wreckless printing of continental dollars, a pair of shoes in Virginia cost $5,000!
Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2008 · 792 posts · 30 votes
17y
Overpaid? Maybe, but the companies were making money hand over fist and I feel those wages were justified.
Harrison,
I hear you. I'm sure greed was a factor. I don't think anyone is blaming the worker. It's just a matter of competition. I worked in the auto industry for a couple of years (component parts manufacturing). I remember briefings that the plant manager would do that showed what other countries paid their auto employees for the work they did.
It was a very effective at stamping out "union talk".
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
Mike, you bring up a good point...
What is the far left going to do about this quandry?
Continued Bailouts > Social Security Bankrupt > Seniors Broke and Starving > Print more Money > Cut Down more Trees > Lose More Rain Forest > Increase Global Warming > Polar Bear Population Extinct!
Where does this madness end!
New Bumper Sticker Needed:
Save the Polar Bears - No More Bailouts!