Commercial Real Estate Agent · Boston, MA · Member since 2008 · 114 posts · 15 votes
I'm a free-market person, but if the autos go under, we'll have millions of more people without work. Do you guys think we need a bailout or maybe some of you have some other ideas?
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
17y
My answer to whether an auto bailout is,,,,,,yes,,,,, and no. From taxpayers $$, no. Reduce the taxes on their properties, sales etc to cut them some slack. Make the politicians spend less if they have less. Just like real world.
Lakebay, WA · Member since 2008 · 48 posts · 0 votes
17y
I'm for letting the auto industry giants merge. The industry will survive without the bailout and there will be jobs either with the newly created company or one of the foreign competitors that builds their cars here in the states when demand for cars increases. Unfortunately many will fill the pain as many are now.
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
Who would have ever thought you could buy a share of Ford Stock & a share of GM stock for less than a Grande, no-fat, sugar-free Cinnamon Dolce Latte, no whip at Starbucks?
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
I'm honestly not sure that politics will matter much longer. Who is going to care whether someone is a Republican or a Democrat or a Socialist or a Marxist or even a Fascist when they don't have a job and their retirement and health insurance is gone? At that point, they'll be looking for a savior, and any dictator will do. That is the history of these types of financial collapses.
It ends when we EAT the polar bear and then we wear our new polar bear suit!
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
17y
The trouble with the big three is their cost structure is so out of whack with the other producers. Not just union wages vs. the non-union wages, but the huge retiree costs. And the huge dealship costs. GM has something like 8000 dealships and 8? brands while Toyota has 1500 dealships and three brands. Their market share is about the same. Bankruptcy is about the only way these companies can reset into something more like they need to be to survive.
The "too big to collapse" concept is the bigger problem. Lots of smaller compaies are hurting these days. But because they're small, they can be allowed to fail. Once a company gets to a certain size, it can no longer be allowed to fail, freeing its executives from any semblance of responsibility for their decisions.
Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
17y
The problem with bankruptcy of the Big 3 is the ripple effect that it will have. When they stop paying the suppliers that will cause many of the already shaky suppliers to fail as well. Unfortunately that is the only way that things can be fixed long-term.
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
17y
Lets' have them do a reorganization BK. Not tax payers $$. Smaller companies that get hurt can also do a reorganization BK. No more taxpayer blank checks.
Real Estate Investor · Beijing, CA · Member since 2008 · 32 posts · 0 votes
17y
I would be a lot more sympathetic to the corporate executive if they told me what sacrifices they were going to make to turn themselves around. During the last Auto bailout, way back when, we had Iacocca who actually knew the right way to ask for gov't assistance. He asked for a handout like these guys but first he cut his salary to $1 a year and cut all of his executives salaries 10%. That way he could look everyone in his company in the face as he told them what needed to be done to fix things. I don't read anything in the news about AIG, various Banks, or the Big Three Automakers voluntarily making these offers. Maybe that's what we need to convince people to loan them some of our tax money.
Certified Public Accountant · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2008 · 279 posts · 151 votes
17y
I like this quote from the Congressman from New York at the Big 3 Bailout hearing yesterday. It at least made for entertaining TV.
"There's a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hands," Rep. Gary L. Ackerman (D-N.Y.) advised the pampered executives at a hearing yesterday. "It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high-hat and tuxedo. . . . I mean, couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here?"
I'm surprised the Big 3's public relations people didn't see that coming and advise them to fly commercial. :D
Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2008 · 792 posts · 30 votes
17y
"There's a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hands," Rep. Gary L. Ackerman (D-N.Y.) advised the pampered executives at a hearing yesterday. "It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high-hat and tuxedo. . . . I mean, couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here?"
I had an opposite reaction Michael. I think it would have been incredibly phony if all of the sudden they flew in on commercial. Let's be real, all of those guys are set for life. They have generational money. If you can change your pay to $1 a year, then it might be a sign that you are willing to be a team player. But, it's also an indication that you don't really face the same consequences as the average "worker".
Frankly, I think the whole "executive pay" thing is really trite. There is no need for politicians to get mad and grandstand. All they need to do is not bail them out.
Certified Public Accountant · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2008 · 279 posts · 151 votes
17y
There is no question they are personally quite well off. However, it's not the CEOs that are personally paying for the plane ride. It's their respective companies that are paying for it. It just seems a little ironic when they are telling everyone that they are cutting costs to the bone, then hop in a private plane that costs $1,500 to $2,000 an hour to operate to beg for taxpayer funds. It just doesn't send the message that we have cut costs as far as we can and there is nothing more we can do.
Real Estate Consultant · Member since 2008 · 792 posts · 30 votes
17y
Obviously they don't pay for their own trips. All I was saying is that I would have viewed it as phony is they rolled in there on commercial airplanes.
I mean they could have brought brown bag lunches too, but I don't think anyone would have bought it.
It seems obvious to me that the representative was making an emotional response to their plane rides that was intended to make his constituency (or peers) think he was cool. I don't know anything about that representative, but I would bet that he has partaken in some Government boon-doggle at the tax payer expense. Last time I checked, our Government was bankrupt too.
Just seems hypocritical to me. They are all just talking heads.
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
On the other hand, if you think the CEO's are worth their pay, then it is a waste of time and money for a CEO to wait for a commercial flight at the airport. By my calculation, Ford's CEO makes AT LEAST $12,000 per hour ($36 million divided by 3,000 hours). So, wasting an hour ($12,000) waiting for a commercial flight to save $1,500 in operating costs for the jet doesn't make sense.
If we really wanted to talk about robbery, then we could talk about the piss-poor job that congress is doing. What other job allows you to take a paid Christmas vacation before Thanksgiving? Being a congressman is the biggest scam going!!!
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
17y
I still would prefer no taxpayer bailout for autos. Let them re-organize and try again. Isn't that what Harley Davidson, Chrysler and others have done. I'm aware of the domino effect of smaller supplier companies and jobs. Our debt now amounts to nearly $450K for every man, woman and child in the country. It is a mountain to climb.
Lakebay, WA · Member since 2008 · 48 posts · 0 votes
17y
Some where in the post I thought I read that Detroit, Flint, or? was a terrible place to live and unsafe and so forth. A few years back the mayor and I believe Fire Marshall developed a plan to revitalize their great city and state by taking property from the owners and auctioning them off with the premise that the new property owner would have to develop the property under a time line or loose the property and their investment back to the city. Looking at the major areas of Michigan now it seems that they are no further ahead than they were back them. This plan came back to me after I heard resently that one of the top execs for an auto maker lives here in Washington State and refuses to live in Michigan due to poor livability conditions and the concern for safety of his family. I only mention this because of the cost this individual costs the investors of his company. He uses the company jet at $20k each week travelling back and forth from Washington to Michigan, is paid $26mil per year plus bonuses and the company pays for his apartment in Michigan. Great ways to spend the money dude! As I said in an earlier post here, let them fall and go the BK route as some of the other major companies have in the past. There will be better days regardless of how it all shakes out but we will survive the pain and grow in the future.
Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2008 · 553 posts · 20 votes
17y
Personally I believe they deserve to fail.
When I was fresh out of high school I took a job in the electrical union one of my first assignments was at the Ford prooving grounds in Romeo MI. They where testing all types of things there.
I asked one of the engineers if a straigt configuration is so much more efficient than a V why do we not use them in all cars?
"the friction & viberation caused by a V configuration causes them to break down more & the engins do not last as long!
Even then there plan was not to build the most effecient cars it was build them just good enough to last for a few years.
"other wise we will not make enough on replacement parts or sell as many new models."
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
17y
If Obama would just come out and say, Capital gains tax will not be increased for at least 2 years, I'm guessing it would make a tremendous difference in stockholders and investors holding on and not bailing out. Any brokers(stock) on here? Would this make a big dif?
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
17y
I never thought I'd be looking at munis and I don't think I will now. I don't know how they can stimulate the economy. $600 per person won't do it, cutting fed rate more(to 0) won't help. I think it needs to be something that sounds good and can't be measured, like the no increase on cap gains the great O could offer.