Everybody has a Pitbull 🤷♂️
Rental Property Investor · Gothenburg, NE · Member since 2015 · 74 posts · 111 votes
Everybody has a Pitbull 🤷♂️
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Member since 2022 · 137 posts · 115 votes
4y 5 Commons Myths That Fuel Wrongful Stigmas Against Pit Bulls
80 Replies
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes4y
Quote from @Linda S.:
It's very sad, and let me just say-- I love that show "Pit Bulls and Parolees!"
Let me also warn you, when you say you don't allow certain breeds, everyone, and their mom will tell you about how their dog is the absolute sweetest in the world. They are sweet dogs! They are high energy dogs, and they are very smart too-- so they need mental stimulation. All dogs can be wonderful! They do have a bad reputation, and it's likely because of crappy people,. That being said-- it's not a question of if it's a nice dog-- the question is-- how bad will the bite be? What's the CAPACITY of the dog's bite? That's why pitbulls and rotweillers are so bad, if they bite-- their ability and strength is what insurance companies say no to.
My good friend got a chunk of her face bit off, by a pit bull-- it was her friend's dog (both college educated paralegals who love animals), her friend adored and cherished that dog... my friend had to have plastic surgery and couldn't even go in the sun for 6 months! Her friends defense-- the dog was just playing!
In low-income areas, pit bulls/rotweillers/german shepherds are prevalent because they are seen as weapons/protection, that's why they are chained right outside the front or back door. What do they want? A dog to be aggressive! I never in my life would have thought someone who just chain a dog outside, until my second rental, when I was oh so naive-- and it was the saddest thing possible, to see a dog outside when it's like 90 degrees, or 40 degrees.. I don't put up with anything in that anymore, actually changed updated our lease to "no outdoor only dogs.". A lot of them do NOT see the dogs as family members, they see them as another layer of protection. It's a survival mindset.
Most don't spay/neuter their animals either, and heck-- some even breed them. I tried to pay off someone to get rid of their dog (which was insanely aggressive, bit the neighbor twice), and they said "no, he's our investment, he will make us money".... they also locked him inside a closet. Low income areas tend to see them as like body guards too, no one will mess with you with a big scary dog.
Since it's not a crazy emotional attachment, people are quick to get rid of them too-- when they move (obviously most landlords won't accept them), they have no problem surrendering them to the local shelters. People are crappy.
It's really sad, and shows how messed up humans can be.. but hopefully this helps you understand the logic and why there are so many pit bulls in low income areas.
We also edited our lease 5 or 6 years ago to specify no "outside only" animals were permitted in our properties. We cleared this through our application, where we asked the question, but decided to double-secure it. If I come by one of my properties and see a dog chained in the yard they better have a damned good explanation why it was there as a one-time, exception-only situation or they are gone.
Skyline Properties - Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes4yYour tenant could have the nicest little pittie in the world but you are likely to lose your property insurance over it if they find out.
Quote from @Sean Ross:
5 Commons Myths That Fuel Wrongful Stigmas Against Pit Bulls - Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes4y
Quote from @JD Martin:
Quote from @Linda S.:
It's very sad, and let me just say-- I love that show "Pit Bulls and Parolees!"
Let me also warn you, when you say you don't allow certain breeds, everyone, and their mom will tell you about how their dog is the absolute sweetest in the world. They are sweet dogs! They are high energy dogs, and they are very smart too-- so they need mental stimulation. All dogs can be wonderful! They do have a bad reputation, and it's likely because of crappy people,. That being said-- it's not a question of if it's a nice dog-- the question is-- how bad will the bite be? What's the CAPACITY of the dog's bite? That's why pitbulls and rotweillers are so bad, if they bite-- their ability and strength is what insurance companies say no to.
My good friend got a chunk of her face bit off, by a pit bull-- it was her friend's dog (both college educated paralegals who love animals), her friend adored and cherished that dog... my friend had to have plastic surgery and couldn't even go in the sun for 6 months! Her friends defense-- the dog was just playing!
In low-income areas, pit bulls/rotweillers/german shepherds are prevalent because they are seen as weapons/protection, that's why they are chained right outside the front or back door. What do they want? A dog to be aggressive! I never in my life would have thought someone who just chain a dog outside, until my second rental, when I was oh so naive-- and it was the saddest thing possible, to see a dog outside when it's like 90 degrees, or 40 degrees.. I don't put up with anything in that anymore, actually changed updated our lease to "no outdoor only dogs.". A lot of them do NOT see the dogs as family members, they see them as another layer of protection. It's a survival mindset.
Most don't spay/neuter their animals either, and heck-- some even breed them. I tried to pay off someone to get rid of their dog (which was insanely aggressive, bit the neighbor twice), and they said "no, he's our investment, he will make us money".... they also locked him inside a closet. Low income areas tend to see them as like body guards too, no one will mess with you with a big scary dog.
Since it's not a crazy emotional attachment, people are quick to get rid of them too-- when they move (obviously most landlords won't accept them), they have no problem surrendering them to the local shelters. People are crappy.
It's really sad, and shows how messed up humans can be.. but hopefully this helps you understand the logic and why there are so many pit bulls in low income areas.
We also edited our lease 5 or 6 years ago to specify no "outside only" animals were permitted in our properties. We cleared this through our application, where we asked the question, but decided to double-secure it. If I come by one of my properties and see a dog chained in the yard they better have a damned good explanation why it was there as a one-time, exception-only situation or they are gone.
I specify no aggressive breeds in my lease, but I also insist that a dog cannot be kept chained. A chained dog is nearly always a mean dog, no matter what the breed.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes4y
Quote from @Manco Snead:
No pets or a very large deposit or extra $ per month. Domestic pets are a choice for people who have them. They are not children, even though many people treat them as such these days. If people want pets they need to accept the responsibility of owning one, which many people do not. I'm an animal lover but the dog craze is out of control here in the US. Anyone who has traveled in non-Western countries can see this. The idea of pampering a dog, picking up it's steaming poop with nothing but very thin plastic bag is seen as lunacy by other cultures. I grew up with dogs, cats, everything, but the degree to which we coddle pets these days has become a bit strange.
The other problem with dogs is that the owner always sees it as their baby who would never do wrong, until it does, because it's a dog. i.e. "Oh my god, he's never done this before!"
Picking up your dog's waste is not "pampering the dog". You don't really think the dog cares that S/he crapped on the neighbor's lawn, do you? Picking it up is being a good citizen. I don't want to step in, see or smell dog crap anywhere, and most other people don't either, and it literally takes 5 seconds to grab it with a bag, tie a knot and toss it into a trash receptacle. Generalization or not, people in non-Western countries don't often pick up after their animal because they tend to live in a manner that most Westerners would consider uncouth if not outright filthy. Having also traveled some, Westerners in general and Americans in particular pay far more attention to bathing and general cleanliness, some of that because we're just rich enough to waste a lot of water and resources cleaning ourselves and environment constantly, and some because it's part of our history and heritage. I have a family in one of my SFHs from another country (3rd world) that were professional, well-to-do people in their country, and they are nowhere near as neat or clean as the average person around here.
Anyway, I digress. I actually see some merit in the idea of a permit before you can have a pet because too many people are simply too stupid to be responsible for themselves, let alone another living organism. Unfortunately, I can't see adding anything more to local government which is already overburdened with issues so I don't think it could work.
Skyline Properties - Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
Lol. What's wrong with pitbulls?
- Investor · NY · Member since 2019 · 171 posts · 80 votes4y
I allow pets in my rentals, just not the ones insurance won't cover. I'd charge a one time pet fee and a monthly pet rent. I think due to their size and strength pitbulls and rottweilers are commonly chosen to be "attack dogs". As a result this skews the statistics unfairly towards these breeds that insurance companies rely on. Ultimately it just comes down to the owners and how they raised them.
- CO · Member since 2020 · 63 posts · 40 votes4y
I personally have nothing against dog breeds labeled "aggressive". I really like pitbulls and have had nearly all positive experiences with them personally. We allow pets in our rentals but we meet all the pets first, have a non refundable pet fee and monthly pet rent, and require tenants to carry a renter's policy that covers their pet. The renters policies that cover pets vary widely in what they do and do not cover and although its helpful, they can be very vague at best about dog bites/attacks. Our insurance policy is absolutely not accepting of these breeds though. I have too much at stake to take on that risk and paying for that type of coverage is cost prohibitive and an amount that would not fly with tenants if I passed it down to them.
Regarding ESA (emotional support animals), I find it frustrating that the FHA and ADA differ on whether ESAs must be accepted or not by landlords. I think the FHA is too liberal in requiring landlords to accept ESAs under almost all circumstances. In my line of work, I get requests for ESA letters. My anecdotal experience is that 90%+ of the time, the person's condition does not qualify as a disability which, having a disability that the animal helps with is a requirement of ESA. We all feel better and less stressed/anxious/depressed etc. when we are with our pets, but this does not mean we have a disability. I am in full support of people with disabilities and against discrimination of them. My sister has autism. I have seen her have to stand back and not get the services she deserves because others are taking advantage of a system that is not protecting my sister, in part because the requirements are not stringent enough.
We continue to accept pets and ESA animals in our rentals and thus far have had only positive experiences.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes4y
I wasted 3+ weeks banning animals when i put my very nice remodeled SFR up for rent. 72% of applicants disqualified when i asked if they had animals. One man had 3 great danes. He got offended when I asked if he has a backhoe to clear away the piles of feces. Another woman said yes its a blurb (mumbled) I got her to admit its a pit. "But hes registered". Yeh I said at the top of the dangerous dogs list. Another one offended. Honestly I cant bite my tongue enough to stop my sarcastic
- Flipper/Rehabber · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2016 · 499 posts · 167 votes4y
Quote from @Jane S.:
I wasted 3+ weeks banning animals when i put my very nice remodeled SFR up for rent. 72% of applicants disqualified when i asked if they had animals. One man had 3 great danes. He got offended if I asked if he has a backhoe to clear away the piles of feces. Another woman said yes its a blurb (mumbled) I got her to admit its a pit. "But hes registered". Yeh I said at the top of the dangerous dogs list. Another one offended. Honestly I cant bite my tongue enough to stop my sarcastic comments. Then when I allowed one small less than 20 lbs dog they started in begging to bring their rottie, GSD, 80-lb whoknows, etc. So none of them qualified financially anyway and tried to lie their way through it. I just put the house up for sale, had enough of these morons. Everything in the above answers is true if you have no need to sleep soundly at night and dont care if you have to replace miles of carpet, baseboards, drywall, etc.
- Real Estate Broker · Plattsburgh NY · Member since 2021 · 45 posts · 26 votes4y
The negative stigma you give these "aggressive" dogs is part of the problem. The stats you give are out of context to make it look worse then it is.
- 81% of dog bites cause no injuries or very minor ones. These require no medical attention. (https://www.coloradoinjurylaw....)
Fatal Dog Attacks states that 25% of fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs of many different breeds (https://www.amazon.com/Fatal-D...)
Over 30 breeds and dog-types were associated with dog bite-related fatalities (https://www.avma.org/sites/def...)In 2016 there were 78 million dogs in the U.S. resulting in 4.5 million bites. Your chance of getting bite by a dog was 5.7% of that only 41 were fatalities. (https://www.caninejournal.com/...)
The problem insurance has with breeds is from the negative stigma, people sue people over stupid stuff because they can. If it has a negative public perception that will get them more money then even better. So the best buy to cry wolf if a dog bites you is to blame a pitbull.
$530 million was paid by insurance to dog bite related claims in 2016. That is over 6.5 times the amount of dogs actually in the country at the time. Pitbulls are not the problem, my wife works in a vet office and I've worked install jobs going into people homes for years. I have never had a large dog bite me but little dogs, all the time. More lab bit incidents happen then pitbull ones. Pitbulls account for such a small amount of total dogs bites its ridiculous, the way people put them down and discriminate. I rent to my tenants they way I would want to be rented too. I screen my tenants enough to know how they would treat a dog. Mass hysteria is just a bunch of stupid people who cant think for themselves.
- Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes4y
But what percentage of the fatal dog bites were on the part of pit bulls? Therein lies the problem. Most of the pitties I know are sweet dogs if a bit hyper, but if they bite they cause more damage. I agree that little yippie dogs are more likely to bite but they are much less likely to cause any real damage.
- Real Estate Broker · Plattsburgh NY · Member since 2021 · 45 posts · 26 votes4yYour asking the wrong question. If you live in a small town with little to no crime and randomly one person murders someone else. So you have 1 murder all year. Well now of all crime the murder is let's say 20% of the total crime. But it was the only fatality of that year. So is your little town now a high crime area because your town now has a 20% crime rate that results in fatality? No.
Quote from @Susan Maneck:
But what percentage of the fatal dog bites were on the part of pit bulls? Therein lies the problem. Most of the pitties I know are sweet dogs if a bit hyper, but if they bite they cause more damage. I agree that little yippie dogs are more likely to bite but they are much less likely to cause any real damage.
"There are three types of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - mark twain - Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes4y
Quote from @Sean Ross:
5 Commons Myths That Fuel Wrongful Stigmas Against Pit Bullshttps://www.onegreenplanet.org...
Have seen this before a tenant who wanted us to allow him totake in his Meth head moms Pitbull while she went to prison sent it too me after i told him no. It still will not limit my liability by telling me Putbulls are nice. Inssurance precludes it and if you rent to any Elderly or Families with Kids expect to be sued when someone bites someone else.
- Realtor · Pigeon Forge, TN · Member since 2018 · 230 posts · 111 votes4y
I would have been very skeptical about a pitbull in the past, after owning one myself I know how sweet & gentle they can be for a medium sized dog.
My Great Pyrenees causes much more trouble than my pitbull/Staffordshire terrier mix. It really depends on the owner & the dog, unfortunately it is a hard call to make & I would have to spend a lot of time thinking about the liability + space available for dogs before renting to an owner with larger pups. Not quite black & white as the dogs themselves can be amazingly sweet. I would have to look through each tenant & weigh my options, it would not be worth counting someone out completely due to their pup.
Best of luck with your rentals!
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesSo your stats are better than his stats? Everyone can find stats to support their position nowadays.
Quote from @Kyle Reece:
"There are three types of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - mark twain
Enjoy renting to your pitbull tenants. Insurance up. - Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes4y
Quote from @Kyle Reece:
Your asking the wrong question. If you live in a small town with little to no crime and randomly one person murders someone else. So you have 1 murder all year. Well now of all crime the murder is let's say 20% of the total crime. But it was the only fatality of that year. So is your little town now a high crime area because your town now has a 20% crime rate that results in fatality? No.Quote from @Susan Maneck:
But what percentage of the fatal dog bites were on the part of pit bulls? Therein lies the problem. Most of the pitties I know are sweet dogs if a bit hyper, but if they bite they cause more damage. I agree that little yippie dogs are more likely to bite but they are much less likely to cause any real damage.
"There are three types of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - mark twainExcept pits are hardly a small town. For instance in 2019 48 Americans were killed by dogs, 33 were killed by pit bulls and their mixes. Given that pit bulls only make up 6% of the dog population that's a lot!
- Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
It's all in the stats, folks........
190 different breeds of dogs
and yet so many have pitbulls - Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes4y
Quote from @Jerrad Shepherd:
It’s crazy to me how many potential tenants have aggressive breed dogs. I would estimate that a good 25% of the people that contact me any given month about a property have a Pitbull or multiple. They are shocked when I tell them that I cannot allow them in my units. It’s crazy to me that a large percentage of the population choosing to rent would have such a liability that would limit their choices on housing. Yet I know very few people who own their own homes that have aggressive breed dogs when they don’t have the limitations holding them back. I have noticed the same about smokers as well.
I rent to tenants with pitbulls, actually right now more than half of my tenants have pitbulls, I heavily screen the tenants and in my experience usually the dogs match the owners... the dogs I have in my rentals right now are super chill friendly dogs
- Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes4yWe are upgrading properties and adding EV charging in all garages raising the rents and including the car charging zero Tesla owners around here have Pitbulls increasing the rent will discourage Pitbull owners from applying for a lease.
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Alan DeRossett:
We are upgrading properties and adding EV charging in all garages raising the rents and including the car charging zero Tesla owners around here have Pitbulls increasing the rent will discourage Pitbull owners from applying for a lease.Or you could just not allow pets.......?
- Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes4yDoes your insurance cover Pit Bulls from a liability standpoint?
Quote from @Anthony Therrien-Bernard:
Quote from @Jerrad Shepherd:
It’s crazy to me how many potential tenants have aggressive breed dogs. I would estimate that a good 25% of the people that contact me any given month about a property have a Pitbull or multiple. They are shocked when I tell them that I cannot allow them in my units. It’s crazy to me that a large percentage of the population choosing to rent would have such a liability that would limit their choices on housing. Yet I know very few people who own their own homes that have aggressive breed dogs when they don’t have the limitations holding them back. I have noticed the same about smokers as well.
I rent to tenants with pitbulls, actually right now more than half of my tenants have pitbulls, I heavily screen the tenants and in my experience usually the dogs match the owners... the dogs I have in my rentals right now are super chill friendly dogs
- Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2017 · 302 posts · 123 votes4y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Alan DeRossett:
We are upgrading properties and adding EV charging in all garages raising the rents and including the car charging zero Tesla owners around here have Pitbulls increasing the rent will discourage Pitbull owners from applying for a lease.Or you could just not allow pets.......?
That's already the case we do not allow pets, but the law states we accept people with support animals. The New EV owners will pay $200 per month more for a Garage with Charging plus seldom want a Dog riding on new Car seats. - 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Aha......I get it, very smart!!!
- Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes4y
Quote from @Greg H.:
Does your insurance cover Pit Bulls from a liability standpoint?Quote from @Anthony Therrien-Bernard:
Quote from @Jerrad Shepherd:
It’s crazy to me how many potential tenants have aggressive breed dogs. I would estimate that a good 25% of the people that contact me any given month about a property have a Pitbull or multiple. They are shocked when I tell them that I cannot allow them in my units. It’s crazy to me that a large percentage of the population choosing to rent would have such a liability that would limit their choices on housing. Yet I know very few people who own their own homes that have aggressive breed dogs when they don’t have the limitations holding them back. I have noticed the same about smokers as well.
I rent to tenants with pitbulls, actually right now more than half of my tenants have pitbulls, I heavily screen the tenants and in my experience usually the dogs match the owners... the dogs I have in my rentals right now are super chill friendly dogs
Yes, no restrictions against any breed from my insurance
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