re: bad investments

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re: bad investments

Laurence Walsh-Hodson
Real Estate Agent · Santa Clarita · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 11 votes

Hi Friends,

My husband and I have been working with a company to invest out of state in Indy. The process has been horrible and arduous. The property has a great cash flow and a good cap rate, but the company keeps changing information on us. First, their agent says the owner will put in sump pumps to deal with the large puddle in the basement. Later the owner says no, she put in drains. Then they say they will fix windows and then decide that no, they will not fix windows. Finally they say they will take care of any mold issues and later come back and say they will "help remediate" mold issues if they are found. We don't know if there are mold issues because even after this now 45 day escrow, their Contractor somehow forget to turn in the sample. I keep telling my husband that this is a nightmare property, but he likes the cap and cash flow. I am looking for feedback from some experienced investors. I have bought two houses I lived in (and didn't have these issues), but this is our first investment property. Would you invest in this? With the constantly changing guarantees and possible mold? Thank you, Laurence

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Ryan Mullin:
You are entirely to "nit picky" to be investing in real estate.  From what I can gather your husband "gets it" and you are nervous and scared. 

....

Our contractor failed to send the test in...  guess what he's busy doing actual contracting.  Welcome to dealing with contractors. Guess what...  we lost money too.  We lost time.  Still losing time as I type this.  

I'm not jumping into the he-said/she-said and taking sides here (I don't know any of the parties), but after reading this post, I'll throw in an unsolicited opinion and a piece of business advice...

As a business owner, this is the WRONG way to be dealing with customer issues.  Badmouthing a potential customer -- who's biggest mistake is likely just being new, naive and paranoid -- in a public forum is not good business practice.  Especially given that many of your customers will be new, naive and paranoid.

As for your second statement above, it sounds like you agreed to get a mold test done and your contractor dropped the ball.  Sorry, but this isn't something you just chalk up to, "Welcome to dealing with contractors."  You told your customer you would do something; then you didn't do it. 

I've purchased hundreds of houses (i.e., I'm not new, naive or paranoid), but if I were told by a representative of mine that they would handle something for me, didn't handle it, and then just blamed it on a bad contractor, I'd be pretty pissed too.

The fact that you can blow off the fact that you didn't follow-through on the mold test you supposedly agreed to makes me wonder if you weren't just as nonchalant about agreements you made with the sump pump and the windows.  You may think these things are minor, but it's understandable that a customer wouldn't find them to be minor.  

This all goes right to the heart of your role as a turnkey seller -- you need to be TRUSTWORTHY.  And your comment above about the mold test doesn't instill much trust from me.

Again, I don't know you (or the OP) and it sounds like others here have had good experiences with your business, so maybe you're just having a bad day.  But, my suggestion is that, in the future, when you have to "fire a customer," you do it without the name calling and perhaps an apology for when your contractors may have dropped the ball.  If it weren't for your post above, I would have walked away from this thread with a relatively positive opinion of your company (based on others' comments and your other posts); but after this, I'm walking away thinking just the opposite.  

My opinion probably doesn't matter to you, but just think of all your potential future customers who may read this thread and walk away with the same impression I have...

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Steven S bond  I once ran into a guy who had a case of wine he wanted to sell for 100 dollars this was in 1983 ish... so that was a good chunk.. It was French wine.. ( and he obviously probably got it somehow but somehow was probably illegal) any way being a young RE agent I had the 100 bucks.. so I bought it.

    Turned out to be a case of 1974 Chateau Marquex  the real stuff... even then was worth 100 a bottle.. I savored that case for about 10 years at the end the bottles were worth about 500 per.. LOL.. so it can cut both ways.  I also bought a baggie of Oregeno in my day as well...

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  • Laurence Walsh-Hodson
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Santa Clarita · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 11 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Steven S bond  I once ran into a guy who had a case of wine he wanted to sell for 100 dollars this was in 1983 ish... so that was a good chunk.. It was French wine.. ( and he obviously probably got it somehow but somehow was probably illegal) any way being a young RE agent I had the 100 bucks.. so I bought it.

    Turned out to be a case of 1974 Chateau Marquex  the real stuff... even then was worth 100 a bottle.. I savored that case for about 10 years at the end the bottles were worth about 500 per.. LOL.. so it can cut both ways.  I also bought a baggie of Oregeno in my day as well...

     It pays to be thorough. Funny. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Laurence Walsh-Hodson  well if you grew up in Northern CA in the 60 's and 70's you would have been one of the 4 people who never tried weed  LOL.. but hey its legal now here in Orygun  and Colorado and soon the rest of the US  .  Its too strong these days though

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  • Mario Mormile
    Investor/ Real Estate Agent · Burton, OH · Member since 2015 · 167 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    @Laurence Walsh-Hodson 

    I would go with your gut on this. It sounds like there are some people on the other end of the deal that may not have our best interest in mind. I have not listened to my initial instincts many times and as a direct result have failed competently. Keep networking on BP and your local REIA and you will find good solid folks to work with. This online community is priceless!!! Good luck And God bless!

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Registered Nurse (ICU) · San Jose, CA · Member since 2014 · 496 posts · 332 votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs "Baggie of oregano". And "to strong these days" .......that's awsome!  :)

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  • Aaron Mazzrillo
    Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I'll be a shiny nickel that you'll never see the proposed cap or cash flow. The fact that you're even referring to cap in relation to a single family house tells me you shouldn't be investing out of state.

    1Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @J Scott:
    Originally posted by @Ryan Mullin:
    You are entirely to "nit picky" to be investing in real estate.  From what I can gather your husband "gets it" and you are nervous and scared. 

    ....

    Our contractor failed to send the test in...  guess what he's busy doing actual contracting.  Welcome to dealing with contractors. Guess what...  we lost money too.  We lost time.  Still losing time as I type this.  

    I'm not jumping into the he-said/she-said and taking sides here (I don't know any of the parties), but after reading this post, I'll throw in an unsolicited opinion and a piece of business advice...

    As a business owner, this is the WRONG way to be dealing with customer issues.  Badmouthing a potential customer -- who's biggest mistake is likely just being new, naive and paranoid -- in a public forum is not good business practice.  Especially given that many of your customers will be new, naive and paranoid.

    As for your second statement above, it sounds like you agreed to get a mold test done and your contractor dropped the ball.  Sorry, but this isn't something you just chalk up to, "Welcome to dealing with contractors."  You told your customer you would do something; then you didn't do it. 

    I've purchased hundreds of houses (i.e., I'm not new, naive or paranoid), but if I were told by a representative of mine that they would handle something for me, didn't handle it, and then just blamed it on a bad contractor, I'd be pretty pissed too.

    The fact that you can blow off the fact that you didn't follow-through on the mold test you supposedly agreed to makes me wonder if you weren't just as nonchalant about agreements you made with the sump pump and the windows.  You may think these things are minor, but it's understandable that a customer wouldn't find them to be minor.  

    This all goes right to the heart of your role as a turnkey seller -- you need to be TRUSTWORTHY.  And your comment above about the mold test doesn't instill much trust from me.

    Again, I don't know you (or the OP) and it sounds like others here have had good experiences with your business, so maybe you're just having a bad day.  But, my suggestion is that, in the future, when you have to "fire a customer," you do it without the name calling and perhaps an apology for when your contractors may have dropped the ball.  If it weren't for your post above, I would have walked away from this thread with a relatively positive opinion of your company (based on others' comments and your other posts); but after this, I'm walking away thinking just the opposite.  

    My opinion probably doesn't matter to you, but just think of all your potential future customers who may read this thread and walk away with the same impression I have...

    Ryan - I guess you really are having a bad day now :)

    I find it impossible to disagree with Jason. This is so plain and simple...

    On the other hand, while this conversation focuses on one deal, one OP, and one TK provider, I think that we are missing the point. The conversation we need to have is whether TK method of acquisition is ultimately flawed, considering it precludes purchasing at below intrinsic value, and with value-add component - the 2 pieces that are requisite to making money in this sport.

    To the original poster: What was it Shakespeare said of Brutus..and fault...and things like that :)

    So many people today are confused into thinking that buying RE is no different from buying a paper investment. I think that through this experience you might be seeing the light on this. Think about what you are doing! Analyze the probability of success and magnitude thereof - what does it look like? What is the absolute best-case scenario? Now think about the risk of the worst case scenario - how does that risk profile look?

    As you are considering this, or any other similar deal, how do you discount the potential up-side to reflect the dramatic potential down-side? And if you discount the up-side, is the deal, and long-distance TK deal, still worth doing relative to other non-RE opportunities you have available to you?

    This business is fraught with risk, folks. Be safe!

    1Reply
  • Laurence Walsh-Hodson
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Santa Clarita · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 11 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mario Mormile:

    @Laurence Walsh-Hodson 

    I would go with your gut on this. It sounds like there are some people on the other end of the deal that may not have our best interest in mind. I have not listened to my initial instincts many times and as a direct result have failed competently. Keep networking on BP and your local REIA and you will find good solid folks to work with. This online community is priceless!!! Good luck And God bless!

     Thanks Mario, that is very sweet.

    0Reply
  • Laurence Walsh-Hodson
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Santa Clarita · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 11 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Laurence Walsh-Hodson  well if you grew up in Northern CA in the 60 's and 70's you would have been one of the 4 people who never tried weed  LOL.. but hey its legal now here in Orygun  and Colorado and soon the rest of the US  .  Its too strong these days though

     Yes, I'm one of the four. :)

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Ben Leybovich  Ben all Real Estate is a risk... everyone knows that your not making any point that is not already known or should be known I think.

    We do have this Steve Jobs distortion reality field going for all you folks that jumped into RE post the GFC and now measure every deal by what you may have bought in the bottom of the deepest trough in the RE market to ever happen.. Does not make you a brilliant investor or someone with superior knowledge you just happened to have the ability at the time and took action.  ( if in fact you bought at the bottom and whatever you may have bought)... So I see that a lot now everyone judging these deals on what was happening in 09 through 2012 and thinking that is what a good deal needs to be today.. Well that is the Job's distortion reality field that you guys live in... Fact is you can make money in almost any market.... J scott is a perfect example of that he moves around the country and creates value through hard work and execution and creates a profit he does not have to buy only in the bottom of a trough to make money...

    So for those that are on the Buy and Hold band wagon that seems to be very strong these days.. what are they to do.. Not buy and hold because they can't recreate the same buying metrics that happened in the worst crash in history?

    And again its regional  what works in one region is foolish in another so we can't paint a broad brush over this... And there is nothing wrong with buying a property that you think could have upside over the next 20 years and it makes little or no money on cash flow but at the time of your retirement its paid for I call that a win.. Those that need to have substantial positive cash flow are those that generally are looking for this investment to replace their income at their jobs... So in my mind its not an investment its a Job.. your replacing one income revenue stream for another because you may dislike your current job or profession..

    @Laurence Walsh-Hodson  The OP I suspect her and her husband want to add investments not replace their current income ... And of course the mid west is the one place were folks CAN get started in Real estate with 10 to 30k down and get in the game its up to them to decide the risk reward factor.... And for some one working hard like no doubt these folks do at their jobs its not that easy to buy " under market " because really who knows what that is... You need to be in the business generally do that.

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  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    .........And there is nothing wrong with buying a property that you think could have upside over the next 20 years and it makes little or no money on cash flow but at the time of your retirement its paid for I call that a win.. Those that need to have substantial positive cash flow are those that generally are looking for this investment to replace their income at their jobs... So in my mind its not an investment its a Job.. your replacing one income revenue stream for another because you may dislike your current job or profession........

    Truer words have never been spoken.

    2Reply
  • Brian Koralewski
    Real Estate Broker · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    I originally considered investing into TK a month ago when I realized I was sitting on an inordinate amount of cash, and also beholden to property that I figured wasn't cash flowing  as well as other potential investment opportunities.  Being from NYC where capital appreciation is the name of the game, I decided to look elsewhere to place my funds, and the turnkey model seemed too good to be true.

    After reading over tons of posts and researching and doing the required due diligence - my opinion is that the TK operation is flawed without a doubt, to an extent.  I have a background in economics and finance.  To me, the TK operation appears to be like a stock that is marketed and pays a consistent dividend each and every quarter - once you buy the stock however, the CEO gets replaced by an interim CEO who adjusts the dividend payout, etc.  Basically the dividend stream becomes volatile and unreliable.

    Hence the issue with TK investing - they are marketed as consistent dividend streams, but in reality they are anything but.  Some excellent posts on BP have attested to that - one by @Michael L who has written about his experience with a TK in Chicago.  He is literally sitting at the edge of his seat hoping he will get his rent paid in full each month.  It's almost akin to a lotto ticket.  Not to mention Laurence's experience, among others.

    I have no problem paying a premium for a house that's ready to go with a paying tenant - however, I do have a problem hiring a PM whom I don't know, and receiving maintenance updates across the country all the while pondering how much rental income I will receive in a given month.  @Jay Hinrichs whose words on these BP forums I have to say are worth more than gold, really nails it that TK generally works if you know the people who will be taking care of your property very intimately, as well as if you scale your TK properties (i.e. you own 20-100+ properties rather than just 1 or 2).  In the end, TK operators are providing a nice service, but it is certainly the investor's responsibility to be aware of the risks involved - and for me, they are definitely too great.  I know for a fact after doing the research that I need to be closer where I am more involved and feel comfortable knowing that the rent is going to be coming in consistently, rather than trusting someone I just met.  I know out of all the TK operators there are certainly a select few that are well-meaning and have the best intentions, but at the end of the day after the house is sold, the interests are no longer aligned as @Ben Leybovich rightly points out - Unless you know the PM like your own brother/sister.  

    What's also alarming is the select few people who hover on BP and selectively market TK to amateur investors like myself and others, and yet never disclose the fact that they are duly compensated if you end up purchasing a TK property though their services.  In the financial industry, that's called full disclosure and if it isn't done correctly it's not only hugely unethical, it's illegal.  There is no problem writing and promoting what has worked best for you, but at the end of your marketing/blog spiels if you are paid to promote TK's you should fully disclose this fact, otherwise you're just leading people astray. 

    Now I will probably invest closer to home - probably in Brooklyn (Bushwick - an upcoming Williamsburg) where the prices are high and rental income is null, but I'll play the appreciation game and at the very least I can get my hands dirty screening tenants and doing maintenance work and know for a fact what I will be receiving.    

    All the best to everyone in the new year and I appreciate your time in allowing me to spew my thoughts.  

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Brian Koralewski  nice post... I want to address the statement about those that hover and market TK.

    I believe the issue with that is created by BP itself.. for these folks to come out with full disclosure that they are compensated sometimes is seen by the mods as advertising. So they can't post in the open forum.

    So you have this subliminal type of marketing and it used to really bug me.. as I did not fully comprehend why they were doing that and I had the exact same opinion you did that this is not right they need to disclose that they are sales agents.

    Maybe BP its self could create a tag line for those that are marketing and being compensated by TK companies .. so you don't have folks getting the wrong impression of these people like I originally did.. and it did not bring out the best in my behavior as well as I was pretty vocal about it.. and for that I do regret !!!   :)  I am a little slow on the uptake here on BP on the unwritten rules or even the written rules as I have never read them :)

    It reminds me of ordering at IN an Out Burgers.. you have the menu then you have the secret verbal menu...

    So maybe BP management will come up with something that will allow these folks to post and contribute but also let the audience  know that they are sales folks for turn key companies.

    PS I sent you an e mail this morning per your request !

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  • Brian Koralewski
    Real Estate Broker · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs received your email - thanks so much.  Responding shortly.

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  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y

    I don't think we have a bad turnkey provider in @Ryan Mullin nor do we have a bad investor client in @Laurence Walsh-Hodson It did get a little ugly on the forums a couple pages back but I imagine all of us have gotten a little heated over things we were passionate about at one time or another.

    To me we have two major factors.

    1. A 1st time investor
    2. A communication gap

    I feel I have a unique perspective on the situation as it sounds like my business is pretty similar to Ryan's. 

    Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like Ryan does the following:

    buys, renovates, sells then does P.M. 

    My company does the following:

    brokers, renovates then does the P.M. so in the end we get to the same destination. 

    Admittedly, the single hardest aspect of this type of business is communication with the investor clients. Especially at the beginning of the relationship. Once tenants are in place and each side really gets to know each other it gets easier but I myself have had to send many emails apologizing for communication break downs. Some for emails that should have been sent and others for emails we did not necessary think needed to be sent but later realized how different everyone's expectations of constant communication were.  Does that make me a bad property manager? I don't think so. There are a lot of spinning plates in this type of industry and I do not think anyone is able to keep 100% of the things from slipping through the cracks once and awhile.

    Sometimes it can be a clear drop of the ball by the property manager/turnkey provider which does not appear to have happened in this particular case. Ryan's company has a very strong track record and is well respected around the site.

     The more likely scenario is sometimes there can be a gap in expected results and communications. As turnkey providers/property managers who deal with houses, repairs, tenants, evictions, contractors, and municipalities on a daily basis it is easy to forget just how many curve balls this industry throws at you and how scary that 1st time investment can be for some. Especially when it is so far away from home. It is also easy to compare your risk assessment to that of your clients. Some clients are no questions asked zero to 60. I imagine most of us who have decided to make real estate our life's work are zero to 60 when it comes to real estate. Others like to take their time and analyze things many times and yes some can be plain unrealistic. The O.P. looks to be right there in the middle. Some issues popped up that really were not deal breakers at all but she got spooked when the communication wasn't handled up to her expectations.

    Before doing any property management I was simply a landlord. Holy molly being a landlord is 100x easier then being a property manager. At least when you are a landlord the punches only come from one direction. As a property manager the punches come from both sides, sometimes over the same issue. It is tough to deal with a situation where one side truly believes you are a slumlord and the other side thinks you are spending their money on unnecessary and or fictitious repairs.

    Both Ryan and Laurence appear to have exited the relationship without any major damages. Both seem to be well intention-ed. They just did not gel. That happens in all businesses. Upward and onward. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @James Wise  Nice post I just home inspections back on two new constructions brand new homes and there is always something.. so I can imagine a 1920's home .. many times inspectors scare the heck out of folks especially if they are not well versed.

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  • Laurence Walsh-Hodson
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Santa Clarita · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 11 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Brian Koralewski:

    Thanks Brian, a very good perspective. We are now looking closer to home. 

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @James Wise  Nice post I just home inspections back on two new constructions brand new homes and there is always something.. so I can imagine a 1920's home .. many times inspectors scare the heck out of folks especially if they are not well versed.

     Oh yea, a 1920's home inspection can throw some people. I like it when people come to town and actually see the house prior to seeing the inspection. Its nice when an investor is inside, can touch it and see that it's a solid home. Gives them great perspective when looking over an inspection report. If you have never been inside an older home like that and just read an inspection report you'd likely be concerned.

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  • Michael Lee
    Investor · Coppell, TX · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 646 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Laurence Walsh-Hodson:

    Hi Friends,

    My husband and I have been working with a company to invest out of state in Indy. The process has been horrible and arduous. The property has a great cash flow and a good cap rate, but the company keeps changing information on us. First, their agent says the owner will put in sump pumps to deal with the large puddle in the basement. Later the owner says no, she put in drains. Then they say they will fix windows and then decide that no, they will not fix windows. Finally they say they will take care of any mold issues and later come back and say they will "help remediate" mold issues if they are found. We don't know if there are mold issues because even after this now 45 day escrow, their Contractor somehow forget to turn in the sample. I keep telling my husband that this is a nightmare property, but he likes the cap and cash flow. I am looking for feedback from some experienced investors. I have bought two houses I lived in (and didn't have these issues), but this is our first investment property. Would you invest in this? With the constantly changing guarantees and possible mold? Thank you, Laurence

    Hello! I do not have any experience but if you are still making money just learn from it.  Not every project is going to be a good one.  Where would you be if you did not complain?   If you would be in the same place no meter what?  Was the company that runs that be a referral?  Just be patient and persistent.  If you don't feel good about that company then get out.  Just walk away and remember about that project.

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  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    No home is perfect.  My cousin in Texas built a brand new home and after it was all done, she came up with a list of things she wanted to change. That being said, the longer a home is around, the more it has time to collect things wrong with it.  Or just being out of date with today's technology or layout.  Examples being -- bedrooms and closets too small, insulation not up to today's standards, windows not up to today's standards, older wiring, odd layouts, closed off rooms, etc.

    That being said, sometimes out of state investors, since they don't know the area, don't always know what to expect.  What's a water heater blanket?  Why doesn't the house have central air, does this mean we have to put them in?  I was hoping for a 25% return, why is this only a 23% return?  How come the utilities are billed this way?  So many questions.  It takes time to learn about an area.

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  • Jeff S.
    Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2015 · 98 posts · 59 votes
    10y

    I just read the whole thread in one go.  Quite the education!

    I hope the concerned parties arrive at some kind of amicable, or at least civil, closure. 

    For the rest of the BP world I think this is an important reality check about the nature of turnkey (or any) investing. 

    If there's one thing that' not repeated often enough - it's not just about the numbers.

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  • Richard Fields
    HVAC mechanic · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 241 posts · 57 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Steven S bond  I once ran into a guy who had a case of wine he wanted to sell for 100 dollars this was in 1983 ish... so that was a good chunk.. It was French wine.. ( and he obviously probably got it somehow but somehow was probably illegal) any way being a young RE agent I had the 100 bucks.. so I bought it.

    Turned out to be a case of 1974 Chateau Marquex  the real stuff... even then was worth 100 a bottle.. I savored that case for about 10 years at the end the bottles were worth about 500 per.. LOL.. so it can cut both ways.  I also bought a baggie of Oregeno in my day as well...

     LOL It was a beef bouillon cube in my day

    0Reply
  • Terrence Arth
    Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2012 · 10 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    Laurence, do not close, GET OUT while you can!

    Good luck,

    T 

    0Reply
  • Zach LemasterBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Laurence Walsh-Hodson 

    It's been said multiple times here, but I think if you go the turnkey route, more important than choosing a market is choosing a team you are comfortable with and can trust.  Ultimately you don't know until you have an investment, but BP is great for looking into someone's reputation!

    Good luck!

    Zach

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