tenant wants to add mother on the lease?
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Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3yLet's start with the "month-to-month lease in perpetuity." Here is the California Law: "Under California state law, a landlord can terminate a month-to-month tenancy by serving a 30-day written notice if the tenancy has lasted less than one year, or a 60-day notice if the tenancy has lasted more than one year." (End)
What you will want to do is prepare a written notice to the tenant that the lease will be terminated on (give 60 days notice) and that she will need to depart the premises on or before that date. Since she is challenging, I would also note that she has been provided the 60-day notice to terminate under California State Law. Ask her to schedule a final walk of the unit on or before (the departure date) with you so that you can arrange for any return of security deposit provided the unit is in satisfactory condition and all contents/trash are removed from the premises. You do not need to give a reason nor get in a debate over it. Be sure to either post it on the door of her unit in a sealed envelope with her name and Confidential noted on the envelope face (after posting it, take a photo as your proof) AND/OR send it by certified mail or Overnight Delivery (which is preferable of the two).
And, you can't be a rookie and take over management of a property. This is nothing less than running a business so you have to know the laws inside and out. Get the letter out first (there are templetts available online for your state) and then start educationing yourself. Start with the California Court's Guide on Tenant-Landlord Laws: https://www.courts.ca.gov/docu...
Read this on California's Notice Requirements: https://www.nolo.com/legal-enc...
Property Management is a profession and business. You can't wing it. Here's your chance to rid yourself of a problem tenant and start your learning process. And, by the way, no mother...crazy is crazy enough without adding more.
Best...
26 Replies
- Investor · Londonderry, NH · Member since 2015 · 163 posts · 59 votes3y
Correct, you do not have to add anyone, nor do I recommend you adding anyone to the current lease without also putting them through a background check etc.
If they are already problematic the last thing you want to do is add more people to the lease.
- Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Generally speaking no. There have been COVID laws put into place that states you can't kick someone out if they have people move in.
With all of that said, if they push back, then say fine assuming the mother meets all of the same requirements for a tenant applying. Review income, credit score, landlord references, etc. That could be your way out if you don't want the mother moving in.
Another thing to consider is why is this tenant problematic and can adding the mother help your situation?
She makes noise and fights with other tenants and unfortunately, we have very affordable rent so I don't believe she will leave. It is an old building and she constantly complains about the sounds and doors slamming and it affects her health. I try to explain its an old building. Also I am not certain what the pros and cons of adding the mother on the lease is. I do want to be able to evict her or even give cash for keys. Don't know how to best do that. Thanks ya'll
- Developer · Houston TX · Member since 2018 · 423 posts · 400 votes3y
Are you planning on not renewing their lease once it comes due? I heard LA is tough and not landlord friendly. I normally have one person on my lease and the rest as occupants. I would not list her at all. If they keep pushing then make sure you have your criteria list of what you look for in prospective tenants and the requirements that she must meet. Don't get sued for making a new list of requirements than the last prospect you let rent from you.
If her mother is working and has income coming in then I might at least go through the process and thus can have an additional person on the hook if they have good credit and income. That is why I only list the best-able prospect versus everyone over 18 as a leaseholder.
Best of luck
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
Aloha,
If the mother is already staying there, past the stated "guest" period per your Rental Agreement, then you have a couple options. 1) send a notice of violation to the daughter and follow through with your violation policy...ultimately eviction for other than rent owed, hopefully. Or, 2) provide an application for the mother, require it to be submitted, complete, within a day or two. Now, at a minimum, you have more info to track them down if they skip, and, with luck, she will be reasonably qualified, providing you with additional financial security at the expense of the trouble they cause. Maybe you will eventually get them out without owing. Or, 3) if the mother is high risk, simply give her a denial letter, and inform the daughter you will let her out of the agreement without penalty, etc. "happy clause".
- Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 5 votes3y
You can add them as living with tenant (the same way you would add a minor onto the lease) that way if you need to evict the tenant responsible then the mother must leave too
- 3yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
You don't and if the tenant is problematic, I would not add anyone to the lease. I wouldn't even ask why she wants her mother on the lease, but you could use it as an opportunity to say if she needs more space, she's welcome to get out of the lease with no penalty.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes3y
California is a tricky nut to crack. It seems every search I conduct results in different laws.
Here's what I found: https://housing.lacity.org/wp-...
No matter what you decide, you need to figure out how to remove this tenant. The longer you let them stay, the worse it's going to get and the harder to get rid of them. Hire an attorney if you have to.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews Quote from @Luciano A.:
Are you planning on not renewing their lease once it comes due? I heard LA is tough and not landlord friendly. I normally have one person on my lease and the rest as occupants. I would not list her at all. If they keep pushing then make sure you have your criteria list of what you look for in prospective tenants and the requirements that she must meet. Don't get sued for making a new list of requirements than the last prospect you let rent from you.
If her mother is working and has income coming in then I might at least go through the process and thus can have an additional person on the hook if they have good credit and income. That is why I only list the best-able prospect versus everyone over 18 as a leaseholder.
Best of luck
Yes, this is my father's property and now I am taking over as manager. They tried to evict her a few months ago over noise complaints but it didn't work out. They have lived here since 2015 so they are very settled and I don't think would move willingly. Also rent is probably a little under market value so there is no incentive for people to move.
What are other ways of getting them to move? Its hard to tell but I don't think I can evict because the "long term" guest, the mother is there.
What if I need the unit for myself or a family member to live in? would that force them to leave?
I'm shockingly un-knowledgable when it comes to this stuff. After the year lease, it goes month to month? and at this point how does a landlord get rid of someone?
This is also CA and its hard to tell when I can start evicting again.
I am even willing to pay her money to leave.
Thanks Ya'll
Quote from @Hope Hendricks:
You can add them as living with tenant (the same way you would add a minor onto the lease) that way if you need to evict the tenant responsible then the mother must leave too
What if I don't add the mother and I try to evict? will that become problematic?
Quote from @Luciano A.:
Are you planning on not renewing their lease once it comes due? I heard LA is tough and not landlord friendly. I normally have one person on my lease and the rest as occupants. I would not list her at all. If they keep pushing then make sure you have your criteria list of what you look for in prospective tenants and the requirements that she must meet. Don't get sued for making a new list of requirements than the last prospect you let rent from you.
If her mother is working and has income coming in then I might at least go through the process and thus can have an additional person on the hook if they have good credit and income. That is why I only list the best-able prospect versus everyone over 18 as a leaseholder.
Best of luck
I'm afraid I don't know how leases work. I am new at this, but it was a year lease and my understanding is that it just rolls into a month-to-month. No renewal perse.
The mother doesn't work so I don't believe she would meet the requirements. Thanks
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
You don't and if the tenant is problematic, I would not add anyone to the lease. I wouldn't even ask why she wants her mother on the lease, but you could use it as an opportunity to say if she needs more space, she's welcome to get out of the lease with no penalty.
Yes, I have told her she can move, but she has told me she doesn't have the finances to.
- Member since 2021 · 256 posts · 213 votes3y
Quote from @David G.:
Quote from @Luciano A.:
Are you planning on not renewing their lease once it comes due? I heard LA is tough and not landlord friendly. I normally have one person on my lease and the rest as occupants. I would not list her at all. If they keep pushing then make sure you have your criteria list of what you look for in prospective tenants and the requirements that she must meet. Don't get sued for making a new list of requirements than the last prospect you let rent from you.
If her mother is working and has income coming in then I might at least go through the process and thus can have an additional person on the hook if they have good credit and income. That is why I only list the best-able prospect versus everyone over 18 as a leaseholder.
Best of luck
I'm afraid I don't know how leases work. I am new at this, but it was a year lease and my understanding is that it just rolls into a month-to-month. No renewal perse.
The mother doesn't work so I don't believe she would meet the requirements. Thanks
Type Tenant/Landlord Laws in state of California and maybe look for sub laws depending on your county and city. @Nathan Gesner provided you with something to look at.
As far as adding someone on the lease and you don't know how to properly say No. "At the moment I am not looking to add a tenants to any of my properties".
- Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
Despite the difficulties that can be associated with some CA laws, it is generally easy to manage tenancy in CA if you have quality units and therefor quality tenants. That type of tenant never pushes issues to where you are in conflict with a 'wacky' CA law that places you at a disadvantage.
That said you obviously have an issue that is beyond your depth of knowledge or experience, and is pushing you up against a law that does not go in your favor. You need to hire an experienced eviction attorney and seek their advice how to proceed, and then do exactly what they say. Ideally they will be able to indicate a simple path toward getting the tenant out. If they tell you that you need to let the mother move in, then they can help you with managing the tenancy going forward so you can try to get the tenant out at the first opportunity. They can also advise on a possible buy-out for the tenant...it's NEVER my approach, but I know that in LA and SF there are buy out laws in place that have to be followed, and those that truly understand them use them to increase their values 2-3X the amount of money they have to give the tenant...so get someone in your corner ASAP to help you learn now and your future journey will be much smoother going forward.
- Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 5 votes3y
It could be because you will have to evict both individually and both will need to go to court in order to get what is owed.
I would put the responsibility on the tenant and add mother as living with tenant.I actually do that now with my tenant
Thank you all for your help. In general, how does a landlord take over a unit if they want it back other than evicting once it becomes a month-to-month lease in perpetuity? I see it says that you can give a 60-day notice but do people ever do that and do tenants ever oblige?
- Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
Let's start with the "month-to-month lease in perpetuity." Here is the California Law: "Under California state law, a landlord can terminate a month-to-month tenancy by serving a 30-day written notice if the tenancy has lasted less than one year, or a 60-day notice if the tenancy has lasted more than one year." (End)
What you will want to do is prepare a written notice to the tenant that the lease will be terminated on (give 60 days notice) and that she will need to depart the premises on or before that date. Since she is challenging, I would also note that she has been provided the 60-day notice to terminate under California State Law. Ask her to schedule a final walk of the unit on or before (the departure date) with you so that you can arrange for any return of security deposit provided the unit is in satisfactory condition and all contents/trash are removed from the premises. You do not need to give a reason nor get in a debate over it. Be sure to either post it on the door of her unit in a sealed envelope with her name and Confidential noted on the envelope face (after posting it, take a photo as your proof) AND/OR send it by certified mail or Overnight Delivery (which is preferable of the two).
And, you can't be a rookie and take over management of a property. This is nothing less than running a business so you have to know the laws inside and out. Get the letter out first (there are templetts available online for your state) and then start educationing yourself. Start with the California Court's Guide on Tenant-Landlord Laws: https://www.courts.ca.gov/docu...
Read this on California's Notice Requirements: https://www.nolo.com/legal-enc...
Property Management is a profession and business. You can't wing it. Here's your chance to rid yourself of a problem tenant and start your learning process. And, by the way, no mother...crazy is crazy enough without adding more.Best...
- Member since 2023 · 13 posts · 5 votes3y
Quote from @David G.:
Thank you all for your help. In general, how does a landlord take over a unit if they want it back other than evicting once it becomes a month-to-month lease in perpetuity? I see it says that you can give a 60-day notice but do people ever do that and do tenants ever oblige?
yes give proper notice according to lease or law. If you know that you want the property back try to give them enough notice that way they have suffice time. Quote from @Patricia Steiner:
Let's start with the "month-to-month lease in perpetuity." Here is the California Law: "Under California state law, a landlord can terminate a month-to-month tenancy by serving a 30-day written notice if the tenancy has lasted less than one year, or a 60-day notice if the tenancy has lasted more than one year." (End)
What you will want to do is prepare a written notice to the tenant that the lease will be terminated on (give 60 days notice) and that she will need to depart the premises on or before that date. Since she is challenging, I would also note that she has been provided the 60-day notice to terminate under California State Law. Ask her to schedule a final walk of the unit on or before (the departure date) with you so that you can arrange for any return of security deposit provided the unit is in satisfactory condition and all contents/trash are removed from the premises. You do not need to give a reason nor get in a debate over it. Be sure to either post it on the door of her unit in a sealed envelope with her name and Confidential noted on the envelope face (after posting it, take a photo as your proof) AND/OR send it by certified mail or Overnight Delivery (which is preferable of the two).
And, you can't be a rookie and take over management of a property. This is nothing less than running a business so you have to know the laws inside and out. Get the letter out first (there are templetts available online for your state) and then start educationing yourself. Start with the California Court's Guide on Tenant-Landlord Laws: https://www.courts.ca.gov/docu...
Read this on California's Notice Requirements: https://www.nolo.com/legal-enc...
Property Management is a profession and business. You can't wing it. Here's your chance to rid yourself of a problem tenant and start your learning process. And, by the way, no mother...crazy is crazy enough without adding more.Best...
Wow, thanks so much Patricia. Unfortunately, I am taking over for my father and he doesn't fully understand the law and has been winging it for most of this time. I will try my best to go about this the right way.
I'm just curious how often do people voluntarily move out with the 60-day notice. It almost seems too easy. Does that work? Especially if they probably don't have a place to go? I don't imagine she will leave voluntarily. So if they don't comply with the letter, what occurs next?
- Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes3y
There are some things you can do to take control away from a tenant who is digging their heels in about departing. Here are some to consider:
1. Relocation Assistance (California Law): "https://www.flgch.com/blog/wha...Due to the housing crunch in your state (we have it here too), Landlords with "no fault tenants" can be left with paying one month's rent to the departing tenant for relocation.
2. Offer to have a realtor assist them in finding a new place and make an introduction/appointment for a realtor to visit her.
3. Remind the tenant that she obviously has not been happy there for quite some time as evidenced by the problems she has had with other tenants - and that this is her opportunity for a fresh start. Let her know that you cannot honor her request to have her mother added to the lease and her mother cannot continue to be a long term guest as per the lease.
4. Don't back down. In most cases where the tenant is fighting it, once you calmly hold your ground ("I know this is a big change for you and I know that in 60 days time, you'll be able to find a new home for you and your mother to share"). And, try to force all communication to be via text or email so it is documented and she doesn't attempt to accuse you of anything.
5. Communicate consequences. I've had to flat out tell a tenant that if you don't depart on time per the Notice, there will be consequences that neither of you will enjoy - and they include you filing for eviction on the 61st day which will make it difficult for her to get quality housing and it will hurt her credit. State that you don't want to go that route and you don't want it for her either so she should use the 60 days to explore other options and find a new home.
If she doesn't depart by the end of the 60-day notice, you would file for eviction. It's pretty cut and dry when the cause is non-payment of rent and/or the lease has expired - with the later most likely resulting in you having to pay her the assistance fee (well worth it). The absolute thing you have to get right the first time is giving and serving the notice; it's a dealbreaker if not done correctly.
Hope this helps...
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
@David G. No no no.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
@David G. 1 name on all my leases. 1.
- Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
@David G. 1 name on the lease unless you want to evict Joe Jim Karen Susan and Wendy.
Quote from @David G.:
Quote from @Patricia Steiner:
Let's start with the "month-to-month lease in perpetuity." Here is the California Law: "Under California state law, a landlord can terminate a month-to-month tenancy by serving a 30-day written notice if the tenancy has lasted less than one year, or a 60-day notice if the tenancy has lasted more than one year." (End)
What you will want to do is prepare a written notice to the tenant that the lease will be terminated on (give 60 days notice) and that she will need to depart the premises on or before that date. Since she is challenging, I would also note that she has been provided the 60-day notice to terminate under California State Law. Ask her to schedule a final walk of the unit on or before (the departure date) with you so that you can arrange for any return of security deposit provided the unit is in satisfactory condition and all contents/trash are removed from the premises. You do not need to give a reason nor get in a debate over it. Be sure to either post it on the door of her unit in a sealed envelope with her name and Confidential noted on the envelope face (after posting it, take a photo as your proof) AND/OR send it by certified mail or Overnight Delivery (which is preferable of the two).
And, you can't be a rookie and take over management of a property. This is nothing less than running a business so you have to know the laws inside and out. Get the letter out first (there are templetts available online for your state) and then start educationing yourself. Start with the California Court's Guide on Tenant-Landlord Laws: https://www.courts.ca.gov/docu...
Read this on California's Notice Requirements: https://www.nolo.com/legal-enc...
Property Management is a profession and business. You can't wing it. Here's your chance to rid yourself of a problem tenant and start your learning process. And, by the way, no mother...crazy is crazy enough without adding more.Best...
Wow, thanks so much Patricia. Unfortunately, I am taking over for my father and he doesn't fully understand the law and has been winging it for most of this time. I will try my best to go about this the right way.
I'm just curious how often do people voluntarily move out with the 60-day notice. It almost seems too easy. Does that work? Especially if they probably don't have a place to go? I don't imagine she will leave voluntarily. So if they don't comply with the letter, what occurs next?
Patricia has given you great advice for how to handle this, so I won't be redundant. My two suggestions are the following:
1. Get up to date on the rental/tenant policies going on in LA and LA County (the moratorium is still in effect).
2. If this is not your expertise or your dad's expertise, please reach out to a Real Estate attorney. Because LA is such a tricky place to deal with tenant law, you need an expert to run through your options, draw up important paperwork you might need, and keep up to date on the laws of the area.
The investment in a lawyer could saves you thousands of dollars if this tenant becomes more of a hassle.
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