Property Management Company choose expensive vendor without approval

San Antonio, Texas
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Property Management Company choose expensive vendor without approval

Mica Moore
San Antonio. Tx · Member since 2018 · 75 posts · 47 votes

House was my primary but I moved out of area for a job offer. Turned it into a rental property & bought a new primary in new city. Hired a PM, who hired & arranged for a move- out cleaner. I get the bill a month later & it's a $600 cleaning bill ( 6 hours billed @ $100 per hour).

BAM! So first off a housecleaner should be like $25/$30 an hour, NOT $100. And second of all ain't no way it would need 6 hours to clean because it was in decent shape. It's a smaller home ( 3/2 1000SF all single- level with tile floors throughout so no carpet). Tell me I'm not crazy and this is a raquet! ( I was thinking a $200 to $300 would be market range which is 50% of what I was actually charged).

Needless to say I'm pissed and blindsided. I'm cooling off from my knee jerk reaction & trying to figure out how to handle this situation.

What would you do?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Mica Moore:

The first thing I would do is address this with the property manager. You are correct that $100/hr is excessive, but there may be a justification for it and the amount of time it took. Your idea of clean may be entirely different from the property manager's standards.

Talk to them and get the facts. Then update us on what you've found and we can help you determine whether you've been cheated or not.

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    2y

    First thing I would do is look at my contract and see what permissions I gave the PM when I signed. There's a pretty good chance you gave them permission to hire whomever they wanted and charge accordingly unless you have a dollar limit on expenditures. 

    I think you probably are getting ripped off - that's a ridiculous cleaning bill, even if the place was filthy and I've had some dirty places left by tenants. The $100 per hour may be with a cleaning crew of several people so that may not be per man hour. 

    You probably should have walked the unit with your PM before signing up with them. If you were already gone, then you're going to say the place was in decent shape and they're going to say it was a pig stye. 

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  • Lynn McGeein
    Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    @Mica Moore read your management contract — I was shocked to see what was in some of them. They sounded great but then actual contract said must use their window cleaning or blind cleaning company at $40 per window per year or their lawn service at ridiculous rates. It was hard to find one that didn’t have really crazy stuff built in that wasn’t mentioned in the meeting. If amount they need your approval for is not specified already in contract, send them your pictures of how you left the house (hopefully you took extensive photos before turning it over to them, like under every sink cabinet, every bathtub etc) and ask them to have the cleaning service modify the bill as it must be a mistake, then have a frank conversation about expected maintenance costs, hourly charges and amount they need to call you first before ok’ing on your behalf. If not acceptable, start searching for a new manager and follow contract terms for termination.

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  • Peter StewartBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 160 posts · 168 votes
    2y

    Totally agree with the previous posters - start by checking the contract. All the PM's I use have a dollar limit in the contract (usually $500). Anything under that they can do without permission. Anything over that they have to contact me 1st for approval. All good PM's should have some type of language in their contracts like this. If not, you may need to switch. That, or insist they amend the contract to include that language for you as a protection. Without it you're writing blank checks - what if you have a sewer line issue and they charge you $20k to replace it? 

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mica Moore:

    The first thing I would do is address this with the property manager. You are correct that $100/hr is excessive, but there may be a justification for it and the amount of time it took. Your idea of clean may be entirely different from the property manager's standards.

    Talk to them and get the facts. Then update us on what you've found and we can help you determine whether you've been cheated or not.

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @JD Martin

    I think we'd need more info about the cleaning... it sounds like this was a "rent prep" cleaning from the primary conversion, and so maybe the PM felt the need to do some kind of deep clean?

    @Mica Moore

    I've had $800 cleanings that were worth every penny, and $250 cleanings that were terrible... I would try to turn this into a constructive conversation about (A) how their process works, and (B) over what threshold you need to approve.  We don't know what your lease says.

    FWIW, I just did a tenant turnover that cost me a few thousand dollars - while I wasn't happy, I wasn't angry, either.  It's the cost of being in this business.  I think about it long term.  What's $600 over your next 5 or 10 or 25 years of owning this place and collecting rent?

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  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Mica Moore the first thing that popped into my head was, "how many cleaners are covered by the $100/hour"?

    The 2nd thought, "did they use Molly Maids", or some similar service?

    Many PMCs take shortcuts and the path of least resistance when hiring contractors. Some of them also OWN the maintenance company and profit off that as well.

    Have an in-depth conversation with the PMC to get to the bottom of this.

    BTW: we are constantly posting that owners need to ask MORE questions about how a PMC executes their services! Most owners focus on only pricing and then get what they deserve:(

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  • Mica Moore
    OP
    San Antonio. Tx · Member since 2018 · 75 posts · 47 votes
    2y

     I forgot to add that we had an agreement that the PM has license to spend up to $300 without my prior approval. So what I'm mad about is that 1. It's over the approval threshold 2. If they were going to charge me 2-3x the market rate for this service I would have like to know in advance because then I would of made the cleaner arrangements. 3. If it was a cleaning crew of like 2 or 3 people then it would not have been a 6 hour clean. If it was 1 person cleaner their hourly rate would of been like $30ish ( on the high side). 4. Like I said I lived there & it was not a pig stye to begin with. It just need a regular cleaning with a few added things like cleaning appliances, cupboards, baseboards type of stuff. It was by no means trashed and dirty like a lot of tenants leave it.

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  • Jordan Myer
    Member since 2023 · 84 posts · 35 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mica Moore:

     I forgot to add that we had an agreement that the PM has license to spend up to $300 without my prior approval. So what I'm mad about is that 1. It's over the approval threshold 2. If they were going to charge me 2-3x the market rate for this service I would have like to know in advance because then I would of made the cleaner arrangements. 3. If it was a cleaning crew of like 2 or 3 people then it would not have been a 6 hour clean. If it was 1 person cleaner their hourly rate would of been like $30ish ( on the high side). 4. Like I said I lived there & it was not a pig stye to begin with. It just need a regular cleaning with a few added things like cleaning appliances, cupboards, baseboards type of stuff. It was by no means trashed and dirty like a lot of tenants leave it.


     I would hold them to going over the $300 threshold without approval since that is a policy in their management agreement - probably the easiest to hold them to. Also, we use a local company here in KC that charges like $100 for a full house cleaning 

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  • Lorien Wolff
    Property Manager · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2022 · 138 posts · 87 votes
    2y

    Yikes - at $100 an hour the list of my expectations would be quite long. 

    I agree with the above replies, read through your PMA thoroughly.

    Feel free to connect.

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  • Peter TverdovBusiness Member
    Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    I have had some cleaning services be $175 and some $750 for a cleaning, depends on what they're cleaning...post move out cleanings I have had some over $1000 people left it in such poor shape.

    Keep in mind it's hard to maintain the threshold limit a PMA has. Think about it, cleaning team is there cleaning, your PM and their staff are doing 100 other things, they can't check on the vendor and say hey have we hit $300 yet?

    The PM needs to let the vendors know upfront what the thresholds are but it might not be an outrageous charge.

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  • Alice Horn
    Property Manager · Kissimmee, FL · Member since 2019 · 445 posts · 266 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mica Moore:

    House was my primary but I moved out of area for a job offer. Turned it into a rental property & bought a new primary in new city. Hired a PM, who hired & arranged for a move- out cleaner. I get the bill a month later & it's a $600 cleaning bill ( 6 hours billed @ $100 per hour).

    BAM! So first off a housecleaner should be like $25/$30 an hour, NOT $100. And second of all ain't no way it would need 6 hours to clean because it was in decent shape. It's a smaller home ( 3/2 1000SF all single- level with tile floors throughout so no carpet). Tell me I'm not crazy and this is a raquet! ( I was thinking a $200 to $300 would be market range which is 50% of what I was actually charged).

    Needless to say I'm pissed and blindsided. I'm cooling off from my knee jerk reaction & trying to figure out how to handle this situation.

    What would you do?

    As a property management company, we list the cleaning fees in our contract. We have a standard fee (paid by the guest) which varies based on the home size and complexity, and comes to roughly $25/hr though we pay a flat rate. Deep cleans are 2.5 X the regular cleaning fee and are mandatory when we take on a new home, and then again 1-2x year depending on occupancy to keep review scores high. Cleaning processes and standards are very different for STR. For a deep clean, literally every surface must be cleaned, kitchens emptied and cleaned, light fixtures, the list goes on. Your cleaner may have had a whole team there working on the house, especially for a conversion from residential to STR.

    bottom line, the rate is not unreasonable if a deep clean was provided and done correctly. However it should have been communicated up front.
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