Changing appliance policy

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Changing appliance policy

Aaron Peterson
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 15 votes

If I have a tenant who is month to month, can I send an addendum for them to sign that says owner is no longer responsible for repairing or replacing appliances? I am managing 15 doors from out of state and I’m learning that replacing appliances is not the easiest thing.

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Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
5y

Please do that in my market. Then tenants will move out the second the appliance breaks. Then I’ll have a new tenant and you’ll have a vacancy and a broken appliance. 

Is it really that hard to call Lowe’s, Home Depot, Sears, or any other big box store in the country and say I need a need a new appliance delivered to this address, here’s the contact info? I usually do it online. It MIGHT take 10 minutes the first time. 

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  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    Where are your rentals?

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  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    5y

    Please do that in my market. Then tenants will move out the second the appliance breaks. Then I’ll have a new tenant and you’ll have a vacancy and a broken appliance. 

    Is it really that hard to call Lowe’s, Home Depot, Sears, or any other big box store in the country and say I need a need a new appliance delivered to this address, here’s the contact info? I usually do it online. It MIGHT take 10 minutes the first time. 

    5Reply
  • Aaron Peterson
    OP
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    @Jill F. Akron OH

    0Reply
  • Aaron Peterson
    OP
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    @Bill Brandt I wish I could buy brand new appliances. You’re blessed

    3Reply
  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Peterson:

    @Jill F. Akron OH

    OK, in Ohio 30 days from the start of then next full rental period, is required for lease changes. if you notified today, The changes would appy for the month of May. In the Akron market, appliances are expected in multi-families. You can get away with it in SFR, but usually most of time in this market all but low-end slum lords provide appliances. I use Apple Appliance for repairs (65 for service call), if my appliance is more than 5 years old I just replace it. The one think I always do is make sure to have tenant flip the breakers if a previously working appliance just suddenly stopped. I do make sure that tenants understand that it is their responsibility to be available to accept deliveries if a new appliance is required.

    4Reply
  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    5y

    @Aaron Peterson

    No problem. You should probably sell that rental, take the money and run. If you’re a real estate agent and a rental property owner and you can’t afford a $300-$500 appliance every year or two what are you going to do when the $1,000 water heater dies? Pretty sure there’s no where in America where you aren’t responsible for providing hot water. 

    Can you imagine that 1 month vacancy someday, and the make ready? Those are all going to dwarf the appliance problem. Sell now, sell quick, before any of those things happen and bankrupt you if you can’t afford to repair appliances. 

    2Reply
  • Aaron Peterson
    OP
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    @Bill Brandt thanks Bill

    1Reply
  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    5y

    NP

    0Reply
  • Aaron Peterson
    OP
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 15 votes
    5y

    @Jill F. Thanks so much! Very insightful! How have I paths not crossed already?! Thanks again

    0Reply
  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Aaron Peterson What is in the lease terms now?...who owns the appliances? are any of the tenants on a housing choice voucher...fair housing complaints are not fun...answer these questions and you can get an informed answer. 

    Ohio law has an "unconscionable" clause...if you are the owner of the appliances and discontinue repairing or replacing them and your tenants start paying rent to escrow, you're screwed. Or if they move with cause (they cannot feed their family or keep food cold)...you will have to replace the appliances or find a tenant with their own...it's customary to provide a range and fridge in Ohio...washer/dryer are mostly a tenant provided item if there is not an on-site facility...

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  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Sturgill:

    @Aaron Peterson What is in the lease terms now?...who owns the appliances? are any of the tenants on a housing choice voucher...fair housing complaints are not fun...answer these questions and you can get an informed answer. 

    Ohio law has an "unconscionable" clause...if you are the owner of the appliances and discontinue repairing or replacing them and your tenants start paying rent to escrow, you're screwed. Or if they move with cause (they cannot feed their family or keep food cold)...you will have to replace the appliances or find a tenant with their own...it's customary to provide a range and fridge in Ohio...washer/dryer are mostly a tenant provided item if there is not an on-site facility...

    I would be surprised, if outside of these unusual pandemic times, if most Ohio courts would construe that clause as a landlord obligation to provide appliances. Even HCVP permits landlords to not provide appliances (though they'll pay less rent if appliances aren't included). I can see where RIGHT NOW during the pandemic it might be applicable if the tenant is behind on rent, can't move and can't afford appliances they might could get a court to permit rent escrows or even order the landlord to fix the appliance but I haven't heard of any such cases. Have you seen or heard tell of any specific cases where that (or something similar) has happened? 

    1Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    I supply a refrigerator , thats it . In the lease it states there is a 10 day window for the landlord to replace or repair the refrigerator .  

    Half way thru covid , they were hard to get , mine died at my house . Took me a month to get a new one .  But I had my beer refrigerator in the garage .

    It was hard to drink that beer that fast to make room for the food .

    3Reply
  • Charlsi Kelley
    Realtor · Charleston, SC · Member since 2017 · 81 posts · 39 votes
    5y

    @Aaron Peterson in this market appliances are a typical expectation for most rentals. What class properties do you operate? Neighborhood? Any changes you would need to make to the lease terms are permissible 30 days before the next 30 day term. So anything you add in now would take effect In May.

    1Reply
  • Pat L.
    Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    We have done that on several occasions (B-class rentals). Deliver used/scratch & dent appliances & tell them they own them, their extra rent covers our investment. 

    It has worked well so far, 7 years in one & a couple are going on 4 years. One tenant actually sold off the appliances we left her & upgraded using the pay-as-you go guys. 

    Another tenant moved south & left all her appliances behind, so we told the new tenants they own them. They also left them behind & the same appliances except one dryer has survived 3 subsequent tenants.

    In our higher end properties we do install better quality appliances & we have a repair guy we can trust on speed dial, so he reacts quickly for us. In five years we have used him probably 8 times & he saved us the cost of replacing a 5-7 yr old appliance. But he hates Bosch (everything) & LG front load washers !!!

    Happy tenant, happy life !!!

    2Reply
  • Curt Smith
    Rental Property Investor · Clarkston, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Aaron Peterson yes you'll have appliance head aches with used appliances! It's a false economy going used especially fir the fridge.

    I buy cheaper new from lowes or brandsmart. We own 38 doors. I never have any failures. Once every other year a dishwasher goes out. New obevis $280 it's crazy to buy a used dishwasher/any appluance in my experience.

    Lowes will install... buy I agree that coordinating a handyman ti install makes best sense.

    I agree with the fellow who predicted you'll have a bad time with keeping tenants if you put repair or replacement on them. You want water leaks from the ice maker line? Dishwasher? No of course not.

    Btw yiu might read the file I've linked off my bp profile, how to buy a bullet proof rental portfolio. Maybe you bought to cheap/class d and would do better with upper class c with better tenants and higher rents to cover better appliances? Ie only 3/2's renting to families who stay forever. :)

    1Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    Can you not find a good appliance repair company?  that might be easier than finding new appliances right now 

    0Reply
  • Kevin Hill
    Investor · Bourbonnais, IL · Member since 2016 · 37 posts · 8 votes
    5y

    I don't manage out of state properties, yet. But locally I have a trust worthy repair company that contacts the tenant, sets up the appointment, then contacts me with the repair costs.  I make the decision on repair vs new and they send me a bill.

    0Reply
  • Dave PoeppelmeierBusiness Member
    Realtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes
    5y

    I provide people good appliances. I feel that if you give people good stuff, they take care of it (for the most part). I buy base model stoves/washer/dryer and an appropriate sized fridge for the house (smaller for 2br, bigger for 4br) from Home Depot for the free delivery and fairly priced setup. It gives me peace of mind if nothing else that people aren't trying to cook on a stove where only 2 of the 4 burners work. 

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  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Aaron Peterson

    Which appliances are you talking about?

    I am only required to provide a stove. I do not provide a fridge, or W/D.

    When I redo a kitchen, I do add a DW, and I am responsible for it. Appliances are getting easier to get. I’m in the process of doing the kitchen in my house and ordered my new appliances way early because I was afraid of lead time. Lowe’s called me in 5 days that they had all 4 pieces.

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Peterson:

    @Bill Brandt I wish I could buy brand new appliances. You’re blessed

     The problem is that you have old and/or used appliances. Your solution of just making the tenant responsible will hurt your business in the long run. I have talked appliances with hundreds of landlords over years on these forums and your solution is far outside the norm. That means your competition is repairing or replacing appliances. Tenants will find the added expense of appliance repair just as frustrating as you. The difference is they don't need to worry about it, because they can just move out. Increased vacancy will cost you much more than appliance repair/replacement. It is also probably harder to deal with vacancy than appliance replacement.

    Our policy is we provide only refrigerator, oven and dishwasher. We have tenants supply microwave, washer and dryer. 

    Bottom line is that appliances last 5-15 years. If you have 15 properties with 3 appliances each, you will be replacing multiple every year. That is just how business operates, more scale brings more issues like this. My best recommendation is use higher quality appliances when you replace, to reduce frequency going forward. For example, if you buy the cheapest dishwasher, plan to replace it every 5 years. If you buy used, expect less life than that.

    2Reply
  • Jacob Bohrer
    Rental Property Investor · Canton, OH · Member since 2020 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    5y

    @Aaron Peterson maybe you mis calculated cap ex then?

    Another example of why OOS investors are likely not what’s best for tenants and neighborhoods.

    Would you like trying to cook dinner on a broken stove?

    If you can afford new/working stove for your home, maybe you should consider being able to for your customers.

    0Reply
  • Jacob Bohrer
    Rental Property Investor · Canton, OH · Member since 2020 · 58 posts · 22 votes
    5y

    @Aaron Peterson If you need affordable appliances, I’d recommend getting cheap, but basically new open box appliances from BEST BUY. They have the most on time delivery system and can get lots of deals with open box items.

    0Reply
  • Brandon SturgillBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Jill F. Good points...

    I don't have any specific cases I can point to. 

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  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Brandon Sturgill I wondered, I wouldn't have been surprised if cleveland courts did something like that and maybe even akron, but for most of the smaller courts it would have been a shocker to me. I have been surprised at how much "interpretation" differs between magistrates and local courts. Before I ever dealt with legal stuff, I thought the law was less subjective and the rules were more well defined. In any event, I hope this eviction moratorium is over with soon-- It's been carte blanche for grifters. 

    0Reply
  • Mike A.
    Port Chester, NY · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 157 votes
    5y

    When I was first starting out, I used to just replace the appliances since many are/were old and inherited from the old owners. Now, I just buy reconditioned units around half the price. The company I use credits back the part of the service call if a new appliance is needed.

    0Reply
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