Me vs. my Property Manager

Me vs. my Property Manager

Rental Property Investor · Heathsville, VA · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 7 votes

I have come to the fork in the road with my property manager....and I need perspective.

To give the background my wife and I relocated and turned our home into a rental, a common move. We then rented to the first applicants willing to pay, a common mistake. After the first year they began to slip on payments and instead of evicting we tried to be nice and give them a chance... 3 months later of no rent and we faced a crisis.

In comes the property manager. He was referred to us by a coworker and we knew we needed a pro. We met and right away noticed his bull dog tendencies, the type you want arguing on your behalf. Perfect for a couple like us.

He had the eviction process rolling and even got the former tenants to settle. And finally when we got back into our house we saw the destruction left behind. Rotting food, burnt counters, destroyed toilets... my wife and I were in our mid 20s and this was our first home so we were a bit emotional. Right away he knew what needed to be done, who to call, how to get this house to rent worthy status again.

After the 4 months of missing rent and the time it will take to make repairs we were looking at paycheck to paycheck. We were able to take a loan from family to help pay for the repairs but it was still short of what was needed. The PM knowing we were in a tight spot offered to find financing for the rest of the repairs.

Now to the present. He has had the property rented out consistently without a single month of vacancy for the past two years. Haven’t had any issues or maintenance concerns, and what we were renting for 1750 he is renting for 2300. Everything is running smooth... kinda. He says the debt was paid off and he would like to use that same monthly debt payment to create a savings for us for future cap ex. Now up until this point it was my wife doing all the dealings with the property and the PM

In the past 3 months I’ve had a change of heart to rental properties. I was against it but after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad I say give me all the properties I can buy. I knew that first I had to better understand the properties I already had ... and to question him about this idea of a savings to be managed by him.

Time to manage the manager! So I contacted the PM and created a spreadsheet stating what numbers I wanted to see, bank information, essentially a monthly statement. I feel he has been a great PM outside of paperwork to this point and I figured I’d show exactly what I want. He had oral surgery done so I gave some leeway to complete the task. Today I finally asked for any progress to which he answered “I’ll get to it this week”....

I have sent him an email stating new expectations moving forward, refusing to do it in a text or phone call, and that any concerns shall be emailed to me. He of course texted and called, which I did not respond to. He finally sent an email late saying he cannot complete the paperwork this week(which he has had a month to do), that I should call him if I have any concerns, that he will perform any emergency action but does not consider the requested paperwork as such.

Am I delusional or is this absolutely no way to conduct business? Any guidance would be amazing cause it’s 4 am and I’ve been up for 2 hours stewing over this.

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Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
5y

Let's put the breaks on here.  So you and your wife are still new to rental game - outside of the bad experience you had with the tenant you put in place, you have not managed the repairs or rental beyond that.  You tried managing the property and that wasn't successful.  You found this PM.  He cleaned everything up, got you financing to fix the property and even got you an additional $550 a month (6,600 yr) cashflow (I assume it would have to be cashflow since you were paying the bills at $1,750 a month and he rented it for $2,300).  Based on what I was reading, he was paying all the bills associated with the property.  You and your wife have been hands off.  Some PMs don't deal with paying off the mortgage or any other financing.  They just collect the rent, take their cut and send the rest to you.  You then pay the mortgage and other bills you have.  

Now the PM is telling you that you need a capex fund.  I don't disagree with him on that.  It seems like your PM is trying to set you up for success.  It is my opinion that you and your wife should have been managing the bills for the property all along.  

Let's look at it from the PM's perspective.  He has taken over the property, paying the bills and sending you the leftover.  Neither you or your wife cared.  Now he gets a spreadsheet from you with a demand of 1 month completion when you had no interest before?  Perhaps he has a large portfolio and doesn't have time for your spreadsheet?  Maybe you aren't paying him enough to do all of that work for you?  Does he have a portal that you can look at?

From your side of the story, it seems like he has been taking care of you.  I don't allow anyone to manage my money.  They can manage my property, but not my money.  I would say that you and your wife should be building your own capex account as you see fit, not the PM.  I would keep him managing the property and manage my own bills and money.  If your wife was dealing with him successfully, I would let her continue to deal with him.  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  If you don't like the guy because of a "tasking" there are worse PMs out there, believe me.  I had a PM leave my tenants with froze pipes and no hot water for 2 days before calling me.  

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  • Rental Property Investor · Natick, MA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 188 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Boland:


    ....Even the greatest carpenter can suck at paperwork.....

    While you are correct in this statement, it’s a bit out of context since we’re not talking about a carpenter. We’re talking about a manager. A critical aspect of management of anything from a frozen banana stand to a region of big box retailers is reporting to those you’re managing for. If he sucks at paperwork it is his responsibility as a manager to delegate to someone who is capable of doing it, simple as that. You may think that your asset is performing well, but in reality you have no idea since you don’t seem to have any knowledge as to how much you pay in repairs, fees, do you even know how much interest you paid on the loan he got you?

    Some responders have said that your expectations are too high due to your small scale. I agree that with only one building under management you cannot expect the same level of service that a larger landlord would get, however what you’re looking for is basic info that you literally need to file your taxes. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Natick, MA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 188 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Ricardo R.:

    .....The PM has a system - albeit possibly outdated..

     Based on what is presented here the pm does not have a system. You really think it’s ok for a pm to refuse to give a breakdown of expenses upon request just because the owner hasn’t asked before? Seriously?

  • Property Manager · Wake Forest, NC · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @John Boland so I am a property manager as well as an investor. It sounds to me this PM is a classic old school PM. Good with the job of keeping the property maintained and rented but not good with the reporting / paperwork. My guess is he’s under staffed and feeling the crunch of the spring market. Although good reporting is essential in this business, if he’s not doing already it will take a lot of effort to get him to start. I’d recommend just starting to shop for a new PM. Sounds like there is no major rush as he’s doing the job of caring for the property. Once you’ve found a company that uses a management software and has consistent monthly reporting as well as good management practices you can make a switch.

    I hope this helps.

  • Real Estate Agent · Member since 2018 · 39 posts · 23 votes
    5y

    @Joe Martella I completely agree. He did them a world of favors, even lent them money, and got them a higher rent.

  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @John Boland you should be getting a monthly statement with all of your requests automatically.

    Do you have an owner portal you can log into?

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  • Ricardo R.Pro Member
    Property Manager · Michigan Ctr, MI · Member since 2016 · 661 posts · 581 votes
    5y

    @Shawn L. I hear you but again... that is something you should certainly inquire about before or during the first few months... and Shawn this man has been keeping this gentleman’s property going... I’d say that takes some kind of system, like I said it may be old school but he’s on it... you may not like it or agree with it but then again you are not the real estate professional nor the one managing it... he is. And one more thing... just food for thought it’s 2021 and most any PM you’ll encounter has some type of online portal for their clients... in fact I’ll go as far to say that you’d have to go out of your way to find a PM that doesn’t offer some type of online portal and accounting reporting to their clients; so I’d venture to say the OP knew this before handing his property over to this gentleman.

  • Member since 2019 · 223 posts · 261 votes
    5y

    I normally despise all PMs and would never let them hold my money. But you are so out of the loop on your own property that I can see where he is coming from. Do you even know how much money you're making? How much will go into this account? Do you get a statement monthly/Quarterly? What happens when the HVAC goes out? Will he have to secure another loan and deal with angry tenants who will have to wait for a new HVAC. He maybe sensing how hands off you are and preparing for the worse.

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    This is a juggle I have seen a million times.  A good management company knows what they are doing and will tell you that its their process that has to be followed or the relationship won't work.  A shaky one or desperate one will bend to the clients processes.  There are small adjustments that can sometimes be catered to , but a management company that bends its entire process to a client is likely one that won't be around for a long time.  

  • Member since 2018 · 22 posts · 20 votes
    5y

    It sounds to me like you had a great property manager (albeit maybe an 'old-school' one) who went absolutely above and beyond to make your property a good investment...and you have probably already soured the relationship by changing his goalposts in such an aggressive manner. The way you made your demands sounds extremely confrontational. I understand wanting the information, but giving a hard deadline and then refusing to communicate unless in writing? He probably thinks you're about to sue him! I would give him a call and communicate to him your appreciation of his hard work and then ask how you can work together to make sure you have the financials you need. He may not be able to generate customized reports for you on the fly like you demanded but you should definitely get your income and expenses. 

  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Ricardo R.... what system would that be? Blowing you off when you ask for the paperwork that he should have been supplying the entire time.

    The OP has already tried the "I want to be more involved" and know more details....can you please provide them for me?.... and has gotten no where. Just because the OP let things be on cruise control for 2+ years, doesn't mean he doesn't have the rights to get some details now

    The PM may be a frickin rock star but just sucks at paperwork...... but he may also be embezzling from his clients and be a smooth talking POS....... at this point there is no way to know. There are red flags... maybe they turn out to be nothing... maybe they are the warning this guy needs to know about now rather than get more $$ stolen form him....we dont know.... because the PM isnt giving him the documents he needs to prove it either way

  • Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 68 votes
    5y

    This whole thing begs the question that I don't think has been raised, unless I missed it - if someone is completely hands-off and lets their property manager handle everything, how can anyone possibly file their taxes (accurately) without detailed reports from the property manager?!

    @John Boland could be missing out on some nice deductions if he doesn't have all the details come tax time.  So you don't get monthly statements - do you at least get an annual summary of income vs expenses, broken down such that you (or your accountant) can properly account for them on your Schedule E??

  • Rental Property Investor · Heathsville, VA · Member since 2020 · 22 posts · 7 votes
    5y

    @Jim D. We received an annual summary last year at tax time: Gross Rent, Management Fee, Maintenance Cost. No breakdown, just end of year total. We have not received anything yet for 2020....

  • Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Just read the last post 

    How can he expect you to file taxes if he didn’t fine you anything

    hmmm maybe time for a new PM

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