Specialist · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
Has anyone had any experience in the Prince George market?
I searched the BP forums and it seems like virgin territory.
I took a look at CL rental prices for one bedroom it is around $550 - $675 (I'm assuming for forestry and UNBC students) for a 3br unit it costs around $850-$1200.
I did a quick analysis of a duplex on the market and it proved to be cashflow positive.
Hey I've been up there quite a bit in a past life for work also. Apparently the population hasn't changed much in a while 70k ish so not seeing much population growth is likely.
Heard they are putting in a winery also over the river. Wondering what your capex is that your estimating, vacancy rates and appreciation rate?
When you go pro on BP there is a great rental calculator to use.
I certainly could effect the bottom line @Account Closed but I would have property managers in place so maybe a trip a year.
But you would be the property manager, right? And you are in Vancouver, right? Not local.
Property managers also cost money. And their fees can often break a landlord. So, I still differ with you on the reality of making a profit by investing in this remote location. To put it nicely, I think you are encouraging someone to invest in a remote location, where they cannot personally visit their investment, and rely on a manager who also is not local.
Hi @Account Closed , I have accounted 10% annual gross income in my analysis for property manager. There are local property managers in Prince George and I would be putting one of the local ones in place to manage my rental property.
When I think of investing, I like to put the end in mind. By that I mean that I would never want to actively be the one to collect the rent and deal with any tenant issues. I do not want to make it a job where if I had for example 50 rental units I would have to visit and deal with them everyday.
And what do you mean by remote? Prince George is considered the 2nd largest city in Northern BC, so it's not like it is deserted or anything.
If I did need to visit my investment, it is only $300/average round trip flight and an hour away.. Which according to my analysis should still keep me in a cashflow positive position even if I needed to visit every month. (hopefully not)
@Stanley Kong 10% for a manager is unrealistic. That's just their monthly fee. Read the contract with a fine tooth comb for all of the other fees you will encounter.
Saying any city (and there are few) in "Northern BC" isn't remote, is kind of funny in my opinion.
But, I hope you get rich on your Prince George investments. Best of luck to you.
@Account Closed Okay this is constructive, please enlighten us with your knowledge of property management and what would be a more realistic number to plug into that category. I got 10% from a BP webinar as an assumption, and I am currently doing my own due diligence and research on property management companies. As I am new to this I want to be as conservative in my numbers as possible, and your input and experience would be greatly appreciated.
@Stanley Kong if you just want a cheerleader, it won't be me. I've been a long-distance landlord and it didn't work out. I know of others who have had bad experiences, too. You may be someone who never experiences the downside. But, I think you need to consider the possibility and look realistically at the difficulties.
As far as enlightening you with my brilliance LOL - google to see if you can find some copies of property management contracts and look at all of the fees they can charge you. A month's rent to get it rented, a fee for kicking out a tenant, a fee for finding a new tenant, fees for overseeing maintenance, inflated fees to use their maintenance guy and their contractor pals. And a fee to fire them, if you're not happy with them.
I suggest you enlighten yourself thoroughly if you intend to buy an investment that would require a $300 plane trip - if the weather will permit in Northern BC - to go find out what is wrong, if your property manager turns out to be a thief, or you need to go see in person the supposed new sewer line they say you need to put in at the cost of $5,000. When, all that it really needed was to be snaked.
If you knew someone personally, that you knew your could thoroughly trust with a reserve fund of thousands of dollars, with your investment that is worth thousands of dollars, in Prince George, then it would make sense.
Or if you are willing to gamble that investment money in the hands of strangers.
I wouldn't be.
You may think I'm just a negative person. I like thinking I'm the voice of reason here :-)
Whatever you do, I sincerely hope you never have bad luck and make tons of money.
Have you considered it being an AirB&B rental? Those are getting more popular these days and a friend of mine just got back from her honeymoon where she rented an AirB&B for a week. I thought it was a great idea for an investment. You can still hire a property manager to take care of it. This would be especially good if it has a view or water access.
Your best option for long distance investments is really to lease option them. Then they take on the headaches of ownership with making payments to you as the Vested Interest (i.e. The Bank) and you create added cash flow to your income.
@Darcy Hocker Do I need to have full equity in order to lease option? If so I am a long ways to achieve that in a market near me. It does sound like a great strategy for distance investment tho.
I have not yet explored AirB&B rentals yet, although I have heard some good things. It just feels like a seasonal business to me and I'm not a big fan of seasonal businesses.
No, it is not necessary to have full equity, but at least 50% equity is best. The payment for the mortgage can come straight from the increased payment of the new tenants. You should still have a couple hundred or more in cash flow from your tenants than your mortgages payment would be.
There is potential for cashflow in Prince George, I've lived here and in northern BC my entire life, but flow can be very slim. I noticed a post with a search of nation crescent and I lived on that street years ago, be careful of the area and the manager you use. I manage my own two rental properties, but have heard stories from out of town landlords from Vancouver that finding a good manager isn't easy and you can expect 10% plus a lot of other costs to go with it. A knowledgable and experienced realtor would be Dean Birks. Tell him I sent you.
The problems that I see with Northern BC is the uncertainty in the LNG projects. Prince George doesn't have much to offer for job growth/creation, and as @Pawan Johar mentioned, the population hasn't increased in years. Even if LNG did ever go through, the majority of the jobs created are going to be a the source of NG and at the LNG export terminals. Prince George will be a hub for workers out of BC, but the only thing happening near it as far as LNG is concerned will be pipeline construction. And once the pipeline is built, the workers will be gone. I would look at areas like Fort St John, Dawson Creek, Kitimat, Prince Rupert and Terrace were long term jobs will be created.
Prince George is the real deal for cashflow and stability in BC. We have 3 properties with suites in good neighborhoods with great tenants as I have done higher end renos. I have moved back to White Rock last year, however we are continuing to invest in Prince George as the numbers work and I know the area inside out. I will be heading there in September for 2 weeks for our next investment.
That would be great. We so far have stayed out of the VLA as it is known as (and is) the ghetto. although, the numbers there are higher for you. Our property management wont or at least prefers not to take that clientele. Our rentals are in the more desirable parts of town, lower numbers more quality tenants (UNBC students, CN rail employees, police officers, sheriffs, and so on). We are looking to head up there to do an annual check-up (me in person, not management, which by the way is an even 10% and no hidden levees and is adequate, lol...) oh ya and it is only about a 9 hour drive from Vancouver if you do not wish to fly,like myself, who books weeks off work to bring his mini-van full of tools and do some of the repairs and maintenances immediately on site seen.
We have 3 single family homes with suites up there and know the area very well since we lived there from 2012 to 2015. Nation Crescent is one of the bad streets. Much crime, low end rentals. When you think slumlord thats one of the streets. Not saying that this isn't a good investment for some people but wanted to warn you of its title. All the street surrounding are pretty much fine, just this one street.
We would never invest on Nation Crescent too many problems. We also wouldn't invest in VLA, South Fort George, Ruggles, Cuddy Crescent or Mcintyre. Plus our management wouldn't even take them on currently.
We meet investors always looking to sell these property but....... According to many wonderful real estate investor the ghetto's appreciate the fastest if you can put up with the tenants and they would invest in them everytime.
We were very interested in a duplex on Ruggles st when new to the area (its still for sale today i believe 3 years later), and almost put an offer on one in VLA (still available), and went through a crazy 4 plex on Mcintyre. Feel like we dodged a bullet on those three! We often went on nightly drives to check out areas and we drove by the duplex on Ruggles st about 6 months after at 1:00am and it had tenants big parties on each side. We felt lucky that wasn't our place.
Any questions about Prince George I would be happy to answer.
Hi all, I'm new to BP and I'm excited to see a thread here on Prince George!
I am a real estate appraiser in Prince George and I currently have my first two investments here as well. As mentioned earlier, Nation Crescent offers great cashflow but the neighborhood would be considered a C or a B- neighborhood. The VLA is a D or C- area depending on which streets you are on. @Aaron Saarela hit the nail on the head with his description of each of those neighborhoods and streets. There are some investors who specialize in those neighborhoods because of the cashlow margins, but be prepared with a much larger repair and maintenance reserve fund. If you are considering these areas, I know a property manager who specializes in the rougher neighborhoods in town and she has a few properties in the VLA as well. Its good to have property manager who knows the demographic and who has a bit of skin in the game.
sorry to bring up an old thread, but was wondering how you all believe the current rental climate in PG is today at the tail end (hopefully) of the pandemic? I see a few multi-family potentials, but all around the area below 20 Ave., between Upland and Norwood. Any thoughts? Heard this isn't the best area from reading up on other threads.. thanks!