My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2022 · 43 posts · 65 votes

Hey BP Fam! First one was deleted. I'm assuming because I used links. Reposting now without them. Here we go...

After deciding I wanted to explore out of state investing, I spent the last week meeting with several "Turn Key" companies that I located thanks to Bigger Pockets. After multiple meetings/emails with most of them and further Due Diligence, I figured I'd lay out my opinions and some general information on these companies and the services they offer. I know many here want to be in Real Estate but would prefer a little bit more "hand holding." I believe each of these companies offers their own pros and cons to solving that problem for investors who are looking to be as "passive" as possible. Here are the companies I have connected with and done a fair amount of due diligence on:

REI Nation: I'd consider these guys to be a step up from something like Fundrise. You own the actual deed to the house, but outside of that they are really handling everything for you (at a price). They've got over 7,000 doors under management and are truly a one stop shop for an almost 100% turnkey Real Estate investing experience. I really like that they have their own in house management and are not relying on third party companies. Their whole operation seems very well vertically integrated, which I believe would make for a much more universally cohesive operation and investor experience. They sell you turn key, rehabbed and rented properties at (or sometimes a little above) market value with instant cash flow but zero equity at day one. You can expect to see 5-8% cash on cash returns from their deals after all expenses, management fees, debt service etc. The benefit here, unlike investing in a REIT or something like Fundrise is you have the advantage of a tangible asset purchased with leverage that provides cash flow, appreciation, depreciation and debt pay down from tenants. All in all, of the Turn Key options, I personally got an incredible vibe from REI Nation. Their management fee was 10% of rents collected if memory serves.

Rent to Retirement: Essentially the same situation as REI Nation except instead of in house management, they connect you with third party management in various markets. Whereas REI Nation earns most of their money on the management side of things, Rent to Retirement earns their money on the initial sale (when you buy the property from them). They take on all the risk buying distressed properties, rehabbing them, renting them etc. then you as the end buyer purchase a cash flowing property from them at market value. In my opinion, just like REI Nation the asking prices on their active inventory list are a bit steep, but I'm also not an expert in all these markets. For the service they provide and the ability to have a cash flowing property handed to you on a silver platter, the price may be well worth it. Additionally, Rent to Retirement is the only Turn Key company I've found that also offers New Construction opportunities where you have the ability to get in on the ground floor and take advantage of a potential equity capture prior to the property being built and rented. Their management fees were 7-8% of rents collected depending on the property type and they negotiate these fees with the chosen management company in each market. I'm currently doing some very thorough DD on their Cape Coral new construction opportunities and am happy to share what I've learned thus far for anyone interested. I also must say that Zach Lemaster has been very present here on the forums and also willing to pick up the phone and answer any questions I have about R2R, which I believe speaks volume to his desire to meet and exceed his investors' expectations.


The following three companies have a slightly different approach to the "turn key" model and are basically offering the same kind of service, but simply all in different markets. They work with you from acquisition (based on your desired property criteria), through the rehab process, leasing, and finally management or sale. What I like about these companies is they're not selling you a turnkey rental and charging you a premium. They're simply making money as your agent when you buy or sell and as your management company through the day to day operations. All three of these companies have their own in house management, which is always my preference if I have the option.

Evernest (Multiple Markets): I spoke with Hunter at Evernest and we immediately hit it off. We spoke for almost an hour and from start to finish I felt like I had known him for years. Very personable, very knowledgeable and also provided me insight on some Markets in FL since he grew up there prior to moving to Birmingham. Hunter filled me in on some personal deals he's done in Birmingham and why he believes it's a very strong real estate market. What I like about Evernest is that they're in multiple markets around the country and their management fees are tiered and incredibly reasonable. Management fees start at 8% of rents collected, but they also have flat monthly fee options starting as low as $89/month. After our conversation I am doing more DD on Birmingham as I believe it could be an incredible market over the next ten years (and I've now got a connection to an agent). I will also be exploring the other markets Evernest offers services in.

Boise Turnkey (Boise Idaho): I spoke with Corby at Boise Turnkey. He was extremely professional, personable and I felt his understanding of the market in Boise was extremely thorough. Their management fee is 9% of rents collected with no extra leasing fees or project management fees. Per our conversation, Corby did mention that Boise is not the best cash flow market, but an excellent appreciation market. I'd strongly consider them if you're looking to invest in and around Boise. I'm not sure this meets my criteria at this time as I really like to find a sweet spot between cash flow and appreciation.

Turnkey Invest (Memphis, Tennessee): I spoke with James at Turnkey Invest and even though he was 30 minutes late for our call he made up for it with his incredibly down to earth demeanor and friendly attitude. The vibe I got from James and Turnkey Invest was that they're running a wholesome, family oriented operation. He also mailed me a couple T-Shirts, a handwritten letter and a brochure with some additional details on their company and the market in Memphis. I thought this was an incredible gesture considering the postage alone was $10. Does it make me want to immediately invest in Memphis? Not necessarily, but if I decide I want to be in Memphis I know who I'm calling now because I can see James and his team go above and beyond for their investors. Their management fees are escaping me at the moment, but I believe they were between 8-10% of rents collected. James stated that Memphis can be a bit hard to navigate as the "good" areas are a bit all over the place and it really depends on the street. All in all, I personally feel Memphis could be a strong up and coming market and I'm strongly considering it and Turnkey Invest at this point in time.

As an active investor here in Western, NY who is used to self managing 19 units, I personally am leaning more towards companies like Boise Turnkey, Turnkey Invest or Evernest. I'd like to have more of an out of state "team" and not simply buy turn key properties at market value. I feel these companies provide a one stop shop with all the necessary boots on the ground that out of state investors would need to be successful. I am also very much considering the Build to Rent opportunities that Rent to Retirement is offering and have spoken with other investors who have had great success with this model. Granted, we've had an amazing couple years of appreciation (especially in Florida) that could slow down or have a correction, so I'm not breaking out my check book just yet.

That's all the information I have thus far. I hope someone will find value in this. If you have any questions, feel free to comment, message me, connect with me etc. I love meeting new people and encouraging them towards their goals. All the best, BP Fam.

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Zach LemasterBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
4y

@Tim Mieney

Thanks for the mention Tim!  Great chatting with you earlier about your goals & criteria.  I mentioned this on your last post, but it all comes down to find the right team that is congruent with your investment strategy along with the markets you are looking to invest in.  Sounds like you've done ample research on some of the top recommended operators.  It's not a bad idea to invest with a few different operators as well to have first hand experience to provide perspective on where to scale over time.  After our conversation I think new construction is a great way to go based on what I know about your investment criteria.  Especially focusing on markets like SWFL, TX, AL, TN, etc. where you are in a location that has strong appreciation, quality tenant demographics & potential for immediate equity.  New construction is also an excellent way to minimize maintenance & cap ex for many years.  Feel free to reach out at any point with any questions.

@Jeffery P. Thanks for the kind words sir!  We all get stuck in analysis paralysis from time to time.  That is normal.  Don't that prevent you from taking action working towards your goals.  That first property is essential to get under your belt, not financially, but more mentally & emotionally.  That will allow you to get into the mindset to allow you to scale over time.  Set some fundamental criteria, network & educate yourself, but most importantly take action when you find an opportunity that meets your initial criteria.  I'm here to continue our conversations whenever.

To both of your success! 

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  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2022 · 43 posts · 65 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Adam Sieg:
    Quote from @Tim Mieney:
    Quote from @Adam Sieg:
    Quote from @Tim Mieney:

    @Adam Sieg Appreciate your feedback. Do you feel Cape Coral is still a good option at this point in time for someone like me considering a new build?

     Hey @Tim Mieney - I do, especially if you look at the current price of real estate down there.  I feel the market is going to continue to be favorable and it also provides you with multiple exit strategies if it doesn't work for whatever reason.  If you look at the price points for similar models of home on an ongoing basis, you can see they continue to go up.  I'm optimistic that there will continue to be the need moving forward.

     It is definitely hard to argue with the trend, which has consistently been in our favor, even prior to the last two years. I feel relatively confident in the overall market there at this point. Even in a downturn, renting should still be in high enough demand that we could at the very least break even, and that's assuming some pretty bad circumstances... I'm trying to poke holes in the investment and the biggest cons are basically rising interest rates and market volatility. But the pros vastly outweigh the cons. Not doing something because something bad might happen has never been my MO, but I'm trying to do all I can to make an informed decision. I've been asking everyone I can about Cape Coral overall and so far, the worst opinions are still far better than where I live in Western, NY...


     Agree completely - its hard to be able to predict that far into the future but I still feel the trend and demand will prevail.  Even with rising interest rates, I think the properties will cash-flow.  They may not cash-flow as well but will still be positive.  Additionally, I always think that the rent you start with will continue to go up so cash-flow will inevitably increase overtime (as will the value of the property).  I think all you can do is get as much information as you can and commit to a decision.  If it works (or doesn't) reflect on it so that you can use that knowledge in the future.  


     Absolutely. I think one thing investors need to be mindful of in these times is, even if appreciation does continue, rents will always lag behind. If you have a market appreciating at 3% annually, your rents will not be able to sustain that same level of appreciation. I think 1.5-2% rent increases year over year is a safe metric to use in most markets, but every market is different. I've just noticed on some of these Pro Formas from various companies that they're putting their appreciation on value and appreciation on rents at the same level and that's just unrealistic. 

  • James WachobBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Memphis, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 893 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Lynn The homes I build to rent are on one-off lots or recently I have subdivided one lot into 2 lots. We are not building entire communities as rentals. This has proven successful and fills a need that I hear from a lot of investors looking for BTR but unable to buy from the big production homebuilders.

  • Heather BrownPro Member
    Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes
    4y

    Have any of you who are researching or already investing with Turnkey companies in Cape Coral had any experience with White Stone Developments?  Or know anything about their reputation? Heather 

  • Investor · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 24 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Heather Brown:

    Have any of you who are researching or already investing with Turnkey companies in Cape Coral had any experience with White Stone Developments?  Or know anything about their reputation? Heather 

    I’ve talked with them about their builds, about selling them land. and with their relationship with RTR.

    In my opinion they do decent builds. I’m a stickler for things with regard to quality.

    I live in Cape Coral where they are building a lot. They are expanding Charlotte county. 

    You should call them and talk to them.

    DM me if you want to know something specific.

  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2022 · 43 posts · 65 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Heather Brown:

    Have any of you who are researching or already investing with Turnkey companies in Cape Coral had any experience with White Stone Developments?  Or know anything about their reputation? Heather 


     Hey Heather. Yep, I spoke with Robert at Whitestone. Nice guy, very knowledgeable on the area and where it may or may not make sense to build. The biggest thing I've heard from other investors is that Whitestone subs out work whereas Beattie Development (the one building for R2R) has everyone in house. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on your opinion of subbing out work. R2R also has a 4/2 model that is currently about $20K cheaper than Whitestone's closest model, but I'm told the build price through R2R (or moreso Beattie) is about to jump up $15K. As annoying as it is to move slow, I'm still taking my time and learning all I can about the opportunity, about Cape Coral and trying to weigh all that against my expectations/fears on the overall RE market in the next 12-18 months...

  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2022 · 43 posts · 65 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Corey Morrison:
    Quote from @Heather Brown:

    Have any of you who are researching or already investing with Turnkey companies in Cape Coral had any experience with White Stone Developments?  Or know anything about their reputation? Heather 

    I’ve talked with them about their builds, about selling them land. and with their relationship with RTR.

    In my opinion they do decent builds. I’m a stickler for things with regard to quality.

    I live in Cape Coral where they are building a lot. They are expanding Charlotte county. 

    You should call them and talk to them.

    DM me if you want to know something specific.


     Yep, they're solid in my opinion. Robert, from Whitestone seems like a good dude. Zoomed with him a couple weeks ago.

  • Zach LemasterBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Tim Mieney

    Make sure you are comparing home sizes along with prices.  Market value is about $190 to 220 per sqft, so a home that is 200sqft larger should in theory be worth about $40k more in value.  I think you are aware we've worked with all these mentioned builders and can provide more detailed insight into actual specific track record, performance metrics, communication, build quality, delays, price escalations, financing options, build quality, etc.  If you do not have ample experience building in this area, these are essential things to know prior to making a decision to ensure you are set up for success.  Not all builders are created equal...

  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2022 · 43 posts · 65 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Zach Lemaster:

    @Tim Mieney

    Make sure you are comparing home sizes along with prices.  Market value is about $190 to 220 per sqft, so a home that is 200sqft larger should in theory be worth about $40k more in value.  I think you are aware we've worked with all these mentioned builders and can provide more detailed insight into actual specific track record, performance metrics, communication, build quality, delays, price escalations, financing options, build quality, etc.  If you do not have ample experience building in this area, these are essential things to know prior to making a decision to ensure you are set up for success.  Not all builders are created equal...


     Yes, I forgot to mention that the build through R2R is 200sq ft larger. 

  • NY · Member since 2021 · 143 posts · 45 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Tim Mieney:
    Quote from @Heather Brown:

    Have any of you who are researching or already investing with Turnkey companies in Cape Coral had any experience with White Stone Developments?  Or know anything about their reputation? Heather 


     Hey Heather. Yep, I spoke with Robert at Whitestone. Nice guy, very knowledgeable on the area and where it may or may not make sense to build. The biggest thing I've heard from other investors is that Whitestone subs out work whereas Beattie Development (the one building for R2R) has everyone in house. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on your opinion of subbing out work. R2R also has a 4/2 model that is currently about $20K cheaper than Whitestone's closest model, but I'm told the build price through R2R (or moreso Beattie) is about to jump up $15K. As annoying as it is to move slow, I'm still taking my time and learning all I can about the opportunity, about Cape Coral and trying to weigh all that against my expectations/fears on the overall RE market in the next 12-18 months...


     What's the source of the $15k jump? Is this from RtR?

  • Zach LemasterBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Eddie L. No, this from the builders as materials increase over time in cost.  These increases are normal and expected as time goes on as with any new construction projects, especially in today's dynamic environment.  

  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2022 · 43 posts · 65 votes
    4y

    Hey all,

    Just figured I'd provide an update. I decided not to move forward with the Cape Coral build. Had I found this opportunity in 2020, it would have been a no brainer. However, at this stage of the cycle I am hesitant to jump into New Construction, especially with interest rates on the rise and a recession now underway. My opinion, there are still deals to be made, but going with something more turn-key and conservative with solid numbers is the place to be for the next couple years. I fear that the BRRRR crowd is especially playing with fire at this time and I'd rather air on the side of caution than risk. Again, there are still deals to be done, but your underwriting needs to be more conservative.

    We're currently under contract for a 12 unit townhome style complex here in Rochester, NY that will yield some incredible numbers once fully stabilized. The bank is giving us a 6 month, interest only period, so even with current undermarket rents, we'll cash flow nearly $2K/month after expenses, management and reserves (which we'll be using to further build our cash pool). 

    Just my opinion, but I believe B Class and C+ (stabilizing to B Class) is going to be the sweet spot over the next couple years. 

    Good luck ya'll. If you're a private lender reading this and you're looking to place some capital, let's connect!

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