If you go back to page one of this string, you'll see my question to someone who had been talking this company up based on his/her personal experiences with Pinacle. When I pointed out that the address they list in their information packet was bought and sold by the CFO of the company rather than a partnership between Pinnacle and investors, the person went quiet. You can check yourself on the Dekalb County Tax Assessor's web page (https://dklbweb.dekalbga.org/taxcommissioner/PropertyTaxFAQ_mop.htm) and hit " property information."
That in itself seemed fishy but then I read on another blog that if you ask these guys too many questions, or ask to speak to any other investors other than who they refer you to, they cut you off and refuse to let you invest. I would think a respectable investment company would welcome an honest inquiry into their dealings.
I was ready to pull the trigger and invest with these guys, but now I'm on hold. I would recommend extreme caution until I see more proof.
That in itself seemed fishy but then I read on another blog that if you ask these guys too many questions, or ask to speak to any other investors other than who they refer you to, they cut you off and refuse to let you invest. I would think a respectable investment company would welcome an honest inquiry into their dealings.
I was ready to pull the trigger and invest with these guys, but now I'm on hold. I would recommend extreme caution until I see more proof.
I may be new, but everyone in favor of this has 1 post and registered in the past few days, this whole thing seems like an obvious scam. I'd hope no one would just blindly give these guys 5k.
-Jason
mth,
Are currently in a deal wtih Pinnacle? If so, could you give some insight on how things are going?
Thanks!
Guys, I do have a life besides "promoting" pinnacle...hope you all had a good weedend.
RWZ:
The document that gets sent upon each 45 (now 60 days) day period has just the name of the property - did not have a street address. The first property that I really scrutinized had a packet of information with a street address of 220 Adeline Ave. S.W, Atlanta GA 30314 - a 7.2 acre lot; For the successive properties, there was a significant "leap of faith" - my money was small and my exposure was 75% (and decreasing) of the inital capital. I did not care to spend much more time on researching after my attorney's feedback.
I was thinking of putting in more money and hence this phase of enquiries.
Resmith:
I see your concern. I am too. The one I had signed up had just one "phase" and returns were based on the sale. A quick calculation and this is what I see:
For a 5 phase project, with an inital investment of $100K in phase one, the property has to sell for:
$100,000 + $143,650 (25% returns) + Pinnacle profit (atleast $143,650?) + Cost of refit/development;
I am assuming each successive phase brings in just the amount required to payoff the previous phase non-pinnacle investors.
It should sell north of $500,000 to make sense. Is this within the realm of possibility in Property Development?
BigGQ:
At the expense of more lively sceptiscim: I expect to collect my 5th 25% return shortly. Things are well for now.
I'm glad I found this site. I called the number in the Newsweek ad, and I received the FedEx package today. Like RWZ, I went and checked on the Dekalb County property appraiser site - what I don't understand is why Gene O'Neal is still listed as owner of 8 Clifton St when a sale took place 3/03/2006 for $389,000 and $405,000. Their marketing material is slick and flashy, but a red flag went up when the business card attached to the folder had perforations on it. Come on, get your business card from a real print shop. I interested to hear more from everybody out there.
It looks like Edgewood Development Partners purchased this property from Gene O'Neal - Owner Information
Jan 1st Owner O'NEAL GENE
Co-Owner
Current Owner EDGEWOOD DEVELOPMENT PARTNERS
Co-Owner
Owner Address 021203 LEXINGTON FARMS DR
ALPHARETTA, GA 30004-5305
With my guess being Gene O'Neal is one of the principals of Edgewood Development Partners.
MTH, thanks for giving out more information.
PRK, thanks for doing more research on your own. Your assumption on Gene O'Neal being part of Edgewood Development Partners must be correct, because the address listed on the tax assessor's web site for Gene O'Neal on the earlier property I researched gave his address as 021203 Lexington Farms Dr.
Another curious point is I can't find a record of such an address. I've done searches on 21203, 021203, 1203 . . . all of these address searches come back saying no such address exists.
MTH, I'm glad you are still getting returns but this still looks too fishy to me.
RWZ:
I and the people I know who invested took the approach that this certainly must be a floozy and we will invest no more than what we can afford to write off as bad investment that can be quickly earned back. To me, the returns certainly justified the risk (at worst I will end up as a co-title holder of a distressed property). None of my friends saw it that way and that is fine too...
Their latest ad in Newsweek talks of them opening branches in Chicago and other places...In the absence of any apparent hoodwinking, can the state attorneys general office get involved?
PRK:
The blog that you mention, you can access the Cached version of it on the Google search. The guy who asked the Pinnacle question got heckled out...not much info there.
I am new here, but not trying to scam anyone.
I am going to take this topic elsewhere to get the skinney.
FW here I come!
Junebug,
Please elaborate...
Junebug,
Thanks for your input.
I have a friend that told me about this investment opportunity and so far this group has delivered each time. He recently up'd his investment from $20,000 to $80,000 and each time he has received his profit checks in the 60 days they guarantee and is always been given the option to reinvest his principal. I live in California and want to invest in rental property, however I have little time manage a separate home so I am going to dive in with $5000, see how it goes and if all is well I will invest more in 60 days.
has anyone that has invested with Pinnacle asked for the return of their principal investment along with the profits? I was not aware of their new " phase " investment but the condo conversion market has already started to flatten and decline in many parts of the country. A red flag has to go up when a company changes or diverges from its business plan or model. As far as Ponzi schemes go, as long as there are new investors to pay off the older ones the scheme can work for awhile.
Why is the post by rlawsonw detailing the pinnacle investment steps his wife took, duplicated on this other board under the name Pete?
[ADMINISTRATOR: Link Removed]
I was hunting around for info on Pinnacle and came across these duplicate postings... red flagish
[SITE LINK REMOVED]
I was hunting around for info on Pinnacle and came across these duplicate postings... red flagish
Hey - Thanks for finding that. That site is stealing the content of BiggerPockets. It is a red flag, but not for this discussion. . . for our copyright infringement.
I've been talking to one of the Pinnacle representatives (Richard Morales) for a couple of months. Although his title is Financial Advisor, he seems more like a tele-marketer to me. Not very knowledgeable or sophisticated. He was no help at all when pressed for details about how the investment was secured, or even what the basic business model is. I've gotten their package and called some of the references. While they seemed to be real people, they certainly were not savvy investor types, and didn't seem to know much more about Pinnacle than I did.
At the end of the day, the fact that they are investing in real estate seems irrelevant. A business model based on borrowing cash at a 100% annual rate can't sustain itself in the long run. The real question is how long can they chug along before things start to unravel. Could be a sweet return if you get in and out fast enough. But it's more like visiting a casino than it is real estate investing.
At the end of the day, the fact that they are investing in real estate seems irrelevant. A business model based on borrowing cash at a 100% annual rate can't sustain itself in the long run. The real question is how long can they chug along before things start to unravel. Could be a sweet return if you get in and out fast enough. But it's more like visiting a casino than it is real estate investing.
This seems like the best case scenario, that they can only support investors in the short term and not the long term. At worst the whole thing is a scam and no one gets any money.
-Jason
edit: sorry guys, but I see through BS for a living, this whole thing is just so obviously not on the level.
I invested 5k with them blindly after talking with one of the reps in May. I reinvested the 1st return and in Sept I closed the account and cashed it out. Recieved fed ex package with check. Total Pay out of 7812.50. Not bad for 3 months time. My biggest problem with the company, many of you have noticed this, is the lack of honesty in discussing what the risks are with this investment. Unless they are getting the foreclosed property for dirt cheap, it seems like it would really be hard to make a 25% return so fast. I mean that is some pretty damn expensive financing. Also what happens if the projects don't sell? Where is all of their cash coming in from besides investors? With interest rates rising it will be harder for their buyers to get financing, I would really like to see their cash flow statement. I think that is the biggest risk, is that their cash flow dries up and they are not able to pay the investors their so called promised returns. However they have been lowering the rate of return, it used to be every 30 days, then it went to 45, and now it is at 60 and they say it will likely go up to more time next year. I am going to get a company head and invest some more money, but I am definitely not going to bet everything I have. Just look at this way invest small to begin with, take your principal out once ya double your money and then leave the profits in and forget about it. If ya loose it then your still at break even, if the company doesn't fold and there around for 3 more years it could be worth alot if it is continually reinvested.
edit: sorry guys, but I see through BS for a living, this whole thing is just so obviously not on the level.
i'm a member on plenty of other forums for other things. legitimate people don't look for forums to post about something they've had a postivie experience with if they aren't already a member... you think these people actually took the time out and searched for positive feedback about an investment they've already received a return on so they could become a member to post once about it? i know i wouldn't. oh, and all their stories seem to end with the theme "investing 5k doesn't hurt"
Wish me luck. I think I'm going to give a shot. I've talked with several references throughout the country that have had good experiences and are still investing with Pinnacle. Can't find anything negative other than naysayers that have not provided anything but opinions. I'll keep you posted.