a % from the feds, a % from civil action after the feds, a % from tax writeoffs and the rest??? G. O'Neal, Robert H. and Mr Kunkel...I'm not going to let this rest until I've been given back every single dime. You have more than p**sed off over 2000 people around the US. We will organize and see this thing through to its rightful conclusion. (lawfully, of course)
and the employee who was complaining about his or her last paycheck. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I don't want them to pay you out of my portion.
I also think the WSJ, Newsweek and every other newspaper and magazine who advertised for them should be held responsible. They are partially at fault for their "chasing after ad $'s" at all cost. They too need to do some amount of due diligence before they run ads and should be held partially accountable.
I'm a Pinnacle investor and was expecting my return this week. I originally invested in August. I had 100% trust in the company, after all, they did advertise in newsweek. I've been looking for a Fed-ex envelope or voice mail or something from Pinnacle. Nothing. I called Nick Rogge, my advisor, and Charisse. Left messages, no reply. I finally decided to check the web last night and finally found this forum. What a drag! Oh my god! :badwords:
My message tonight is directed to Nick, Charisse and Gene:
I don't know how much of this stuff you were aware of when you first got involved with Pinnacle, but somewhere down the line you must have had an idea something wasn't right (presuming you know the difference between right and wrong?) :violin:
Have you ever heard of karma? What you sow is what you reap. There are a hell of a lot of people pissed off at you right now. What choices are you going to make now?
So, what are you going to do? Are you going to sit back, clam up, pretend you're innocent, stick your head in the sand, hope it all goes away, let this whole thing unfold, let the lawyers and receivers take most of the assets in fees? Or, are you going to do the right thing, and admit the truth (funny word, truth. It means, what actually happened, pure and simple). You know the truth, you were there, right? :shock:
Are you going to sit back and hope you can save your measly little reputations, letting the lawyers take the lion's share of what's left of your "company's" assets (our money), or are you going to actually step up to the plate and be a man (woman), perhaps for the first time in quite a few years.
There are hundreds and thousands of us out here who actually believed and trusted in you and your message. Are you going to screw us over again? Are you going to let Hays and his troops take you through court, expose what weasels you actually are, ultimately ending up with our money, your reputations in shatters? Can you sleep at night?
Or, are going to show us that in the end you are not the a**holes most of think you are now?
My advice: Tell the truth, come out with it, bare your souls. What have you got to lose? You have a lot to gain.
Settle this fiasco here and now, cooperate, tell the truth, free up your ill-gained assets, let them be returned to who they belong to: the working-class Joes who believed in you in the first place. You know what's right. Listen that voice in your head. Do the right thing. Join the human race. :superman:
Karma never forgets....
You will never forget.....
We will never forget you...
How will karma remember you?
~ Pissed off in California....
Broke,
You misunderstood my post. I was talking about people that left or were let go months ago that could have warned investors about the scam. Also, I feel for you about possibly not having a paycheck coming....want to switch places with me and most of the people on this board? Many people invested all the money they had and I know them personally. Some people can't afford their mortgages now and I know them personally too. Consider yourself lucky that you were just let go and don't face any criminal charges. You should be happy that you don't work for that scumbag anymore!
And no responsibility is supposed to be put on those who actually invested money? Minimum due diligence by potential investors would have instantly brought up red flags such as: why does the buyer and seller of the various properties have the same address? I know people have lost a lot of money, and I am sensitive of that fact, but you cannot blame everyone other than yourself. Especially blaming periodicals for "chasing after advertisement dollars" when you were chasing after unnaturally high rates of return.
Pinnacles attorney, chris kunkel, always had letters stating the he is familiar with & supports Pinn's business plan. This was the same letter where he tells us not to contact other investors. I was definitely influenced by that letter from him because hes an attorney & I put a lot of faith in attorneys & he was credible to me.
CHRISTOPHER KUNKEL.. you should be on the hook for this too!! I wonder how many other people were on the fence & were pushed over because an attorney (CHRIS KUNKEL) wrote such a letter about a company they were considering investing in!
A few other notes while I'm up late & p'd-off:
1. Broke laid.. sorry bro but no sympathy here from me.. my only sorrow comes from looking into my one year old daughter & 3 week old sons eyes & realizing how much they will have to do without as a result of the 6 figure scam your company pulled on me.. also, how long did you work there? Find it hard to believe you didnt have an inkling what was up.. if you think Im being tough on you then dont read the posts!! so far you havnt told us anything worth hearing for being an ex-employee.. this board is for us now victims.. tell us something good or beat it! Many peoples lives are devasted as a result of this.. bankrupcies, people who referred friends & relatives will have destroyed relationships, foreclosures & the many other tradegies soon to ensue... I actually cant believe everyone has been so nice to you thus far.. no victim in this forum should feel compasion for Pinn employees.. they took are $$ & whether they knew it was a scam or not they were still a part of it.. they are not our friends.
2. seems the receiver wont even throw us a bone & tell us what they have in the bank & in real estate.
3. has anyone even started thinking of our tax returns for this year & how all this will play? if we get K-1's for these partnerships that means we must pay taxes on that income! I dont think we can write-off lost $$ til this is all settled with the reeiver! Talk about salt in the wound! Will we even have K-1's for tax time?
I'm done venting.. I have'nt thus far.. just everyone stop kissing Pinnacle employee's a**es..
Yeah santacruz!!! thats what Im talking about!! They are all the bad guys who help take our money!!!
Now cheris22... c'mon.. you "feel" for them not getting their last paycheck.. maybe your just not mad enough yet.. sorry but they dont deserve your kind words..
Hello,
I have never posted on the message board until now. I am a pinnacle investor who has been reading the message board since the beginning of September. My sympathies go out to all of you who stand to loose so much (especially the 6 figure club). I just have one question; is the claim form already posted to the website mentioned, and has anyone already finished completing the claim?
Yours truly,
Another depressed investor.
Taxum,
My user name is chemar22 not cheris22. You must have Cherise from Pinn. on your mind and I don't want to be affiliated with that name. Also read my post again, slowly.... I definitely was NOT being sympathetic to Broke.
While I can't help feeling suspicious of Pinnacle employees knowledge of events I also wouldn't mind hearing some inside information about the organization from them right now. They're probably pissed off at O'Neal too & in the mood to vent.
If we're hostile to those who come on this forum to explain themselves I doubt we'll hear anything from any of the others.
Can't we hold off judgement until we hear what they have to say?
hey there mr asdfjkl:
I (we all) take responsibility for our actions. We all could've done more due diligence.
That doesn't shield others from their responsibilities though.
I find your comments insensitive, considering the situation.
I (we all) take responsibility for our actions. We all could've done more due diligence.
That doesn't shield others from their responsibilities though.
I find your comments insensitive, considering the situation.
Berkeleyguy - I totally agree.
asdjfkl - you don't have a sensitive bone in you and clearly you don't belong here.
Dear Investors;
I am neither an investor nor ex-employee and had no involvement in the operation but did have the opportunity to spend many days at Pinnacle. I've had a bad feeling about this company since early this year. Most of the emloyees seemed to have come straight from the fast food counters and were in no way qaulified to perform the functions required, if this had been a legitimate real estate investment company. Employees seemed intimidated and always in fear of losing their jobs, which many did for a variety of reasons.
Mr. O'Neal is a clever fellow. Whenever I had a meeting with him, he talked the good talk. I would leave feeling as if maybe this was a real business and he did care about his investors and employees. That feeling usually faded fast.
I'm very sorry for the loses you all fear and reading these posts for the last few days makes me wish there was something I could have done to prevent the damage. One can't call the Feds because of a gut feeling. I too am owed money and realize that I will be at the bottom of the totem pole when assests are distributed.
Next time, I'll listen to my gut.
I always stuck with 401ks, CDs etc, this is my 1st try at real investing an this is what happens. i have a lot going on in my head, i got my poor broke sis into this as well.
I think all who advertised Pinnacle should be held responsible somehow cause they got more people into this than it would've been otherwise possible.
Anyone/company who vouched for Pinnacle in anyone should be held accountable.
How does the Better Business Bureau validates companies the post on their site.
These are all place that we went to to help support our decision to invest other than the word of mouth
I Also Have concerns about the receiver. I do think they should get paid somehow/something but are they doing this for the investers or there are looking to cash in on our demise.
If they are really trying to help they will cut down on their fees and do all possible to cut down on cost to the investers. i have over 32k invested in this 60% of it loans, i bearly make that much a year. this is hitting me hard. i do no know how i'm going to pay this loan back cause my savings is tied in there too.
What the hell was i thinking
just another broke invester
I was fortunate to get in on this at the tail end and as such, my loss is minimal..However, I would like to say that I am amazed at the information that individuals have been able to gather. Individuals trying to sort this mess out would be at a total loss. Thank you to all who have contributed.
asdfjkl,
Don't you think having your atty. or personal financial manager go over Pinns. documents and then go to Atlanta personally to meet with them is due dilligence? Remember their paperwork was drawn up by an atty. as well. The reason good people get scammed is because the scammer is just a little bit better at his craft. We want to trust people. I think it's human nature.
Also since the Feds are the ones who shut down operations like this, why can't the receivers pay come out of some govt. acct. that they usually use for useless crap?
We should all have concerns about the receiver within reason. Every dollar of manpower cuts from our return........If 60 million is coreect, either way, professionals should find the money, property, etc. Blaming guilt is whats going to be time consuming.
If the money is their.......FU-K the guilt! Return the money then go after the guilty........
Like the phrase..." shoot first, ask q's ltr "
Well here goes.....I am an ex employee. I only was there a little over 2-3 weeks and I had a feeling something was not right and was in the process of finding another job. Here is my observations of everythng:
1. Oneal NEVER left out of his office and him and security was the only ones allowed to go in there.
2. He NEVER interacted with his employees. I talked to one of my ex co-workers and they stated that it took him a month to just acknowledge him.
3. He handled ALL the transaction that occurred (as for as wiring your money). I always found that weird since that simple duty could have went to anybody in accounting or bookkeeping.
4. He fired almost ALL of his employees around the beginning of the year and hired an entire new staff. He had just obtain an HR manager 2 months ago. So basically everyone who was there working for him came February 2006 and later. Why he fired his entire staff but a couple is beyond my knowledge and when I ask was told to nothing.
5. Individuals he hired was newly college graduates who never really had job experience. Since everything has happen, I realize he did this NOT to give them a chance and obtain job experience, BUT because he KNEW that they would not recognize some things.
6. As for as employee knowing what was going on, I cannot say if everybody knew, BUT I can say that the higher ups did now something. They had to.....Individuals such as myself who did not working in Consulting, Accounting, or Bookkeeping had no idea. I truly believe that three departments I just named only was recieving limited information. Scripts to say.
7. When the WSJ article came out, we had a general meeting and this is what was told to us by ONeal himself: It is not his fault, he always wanted to be able to say that he was good to his employee and investors. That Kunkel (the attorney) had purposely misinformed him and that the reason everything was going wrong was because of the partnership agreements. We were not being investigated by the SEC. That we were working at a legitmate business and that we all had job security.
8. After this meeting, him and 3 other individuals started having private meetings. They stop including management personnel nor HR. People were getting very upset and we had to have general meetings every other day seem like it because we were wanting answers to questions. However they would continue to give us the run around.
9. This is when individuals started quitting or looking for new employment. A group of us went on the web and found this site. We were amazed at the things we read. Trust you cannot blame the entire company. How would facilities, shipping and recieving, assistants, receptionists, etc. know the in and outs of what ONeal and senior management do? We were treated like we were not important and we could be replace at moments notice.
10. We have been burned just like you. We put our trust into someone just like you. I have ex-coworker who did not come in on Wednesday because he was closing on a home. We were trying to contac him as soon as we found out but it was to late. We have several employees that just purchase homes. A lot of individuals was affected by his doing.
11. We truly trusted him and his senior management until the secreacy started 2 weeks ago. HOWEVER Wednesday we realize that the senior management were just as lost as we (how, I do not know).
12. It really hit the fan when on Wednesday, security went into his office and found the office CLEANED OUT!!!! He could not even face his employees and tell them that SEC was coming and we no longer had jobs. His poor assistant was always not in the loop and I think that he had only been working here 2 months. Did not even warn him. We found out about EVERYTHING moments before SEC walk into the doors and said basically, you no longer have jobs. So add another 50-60 angry individuals to that 2000.
13. We may not have lost lots of dollars, but we did lose steady income, these newly grads will have to face the fact of what the next employer would think. So please consider everyones feelings.
14. Wondering why no one will say anything on here? Well lets see.....Maybe they are worried that somehow it can be traced back to who actually wrote it. Maybe people are worried about their safety.
So with all that said, I hope I bought some claity to the situation regarding the employees. I am not saying that everyone was innocent but the ratio of innocent to guilty (85-15). Nevertheless if some of you still feel like we were the bad guys, completely understand. I just wanted our side to be told. Every since Wednesday, I have been consoling individuals who ALSO feel like they have lost EVERYTHING.
Dear damnpinn,
Thank you very much for that information, I'm sure it will be very useful for all of us. That seems to me that that was a very big piece of the puzzle because it's starting to make sense now
Vince
damnpinn
Thanks for facing the angery investors and posting here. It makes sense that majority of employees would have performed their limited and scripted role without getting any clues about legitimacy of pinnacle operations. we should encourage other employees to come forward and provide insider's knowledge. Thanks again
what concerns me is that by the time all the fines, taxes, dues to creditors and receiver's expences are done with, there might not be much left for investors. I have heard horror stories when funds fall into receiver's hands - their operations and fees drag on for years - all these being done to protect the defrauded investors but it is investors that would end up with sorry end of the stick. It amounts to compounding their misery in the name of redressing it.
If pinnacle is proven to be a ponzi scheme, why should SEC, IRS, other investigating agencies or the receiver profit at expense of defrauded investor's? All the fines, legal fees, taxes and receiver's expences should come from Gene's personal assets rather than from investor's funds - assuming that all these is being done to protect the defrauded investors.
If it is proven to be a ponzi sceme, it means there was no profit, therefore no taxes. All fines and expences should not come out of defrauded investors' funds. I hope receiver's fees are limited to small percentage and no more.
Pinnacle was in the process of returning everybody's money and that would have protected investors fine if the process was allowed to go forward. Lets see what SEC, court and Receiver do in the name of protectting investors - it better be better than what pinnacle was already doing.