The responsibility should not be "squarely on the shoulder of the investor."
What ever happened to honest representation?
If we sit in a restaurant and eat what we are told is a hamburger, is the responsibility "squarely on our shoulders" if we take a bite and find ourselves eating dog food? Or should we never eat unless we see a restaurant's financials and inspection papers, and make sure every employee has washed his hands?
As for due diligence: It wasn't just the ads. It was 8 years with the BBB, a clean bill of health from Dun & Bradstreet, live testimony from scores of investors. Many components filled out this portrait. The ads showed they were successful and aggressively growing.
Paul, I think we're all a bit sick of being "scolded" for believing what was reasonable to believe. All progress entails risk.
If I seem hostile it's because you barged onto this site full of boasts. What do you need to prove? That your rip-off scam is more worthy than O'Neal's? You're addressing a community of defrauded people.
Quit blaming the victims!
I'll quit blaming the victim when you stop playing the victim. Of all the things you mentioned in your post you did not touch on the company's financials-- not even a proforma like a prospectus.
I'm not "scolding" you. I'm bringing to light what you will not see because until you do- you're going to keep doing stuff just like this. That's the way life is-- it will keep giving you the same test until you pass, and it won't let you move on to the next level before you do.
I'm not here to whip on you, I'm here to help you.
Paul, in case you're interested, we all got a prospectus in the mail. It was part of the investor kit.
I showed it to my financial adviser and he thought it passed muster. He and a friend of his were considering investing!
The truth is, most of us -- including me -- don't know what really went on here. Over the months I dealt with these folks, a lot of their behavior was not at all consistent with a Ponzi scheme.
This probably began as a business innovation that was bending some rules, and then slid into deeper slime.
I think we have a right to be angry without being accused of "playing the victim." Anyway, I've been vocal. I wonder what some other investors who have been reading this conversation are feeling.
I am so not interested in hearing from anyone who didn't invest. I lost a lot of money. Weather it was my fault or not I couldn't care less. I am here to find out how much and when I am getting some back.
I don't want to hear about someone's company and who thought the signs were there. Keep that info to yourself.
I am sure all the folks here who lost money just want to see this issue resolved as quickly as possible, Gene O'Neal in hot water and the book on Pinnacle closed. Let's just call it the tuition in the school of life.
This is a support group for investors who lost money to find out what is going on. It would be very kind if the rest of you go and start another thread and talk to each other. You are clogging up the board with wasteful personal info.
Speaking of another rip off coming... I saw this and Pinnacle while researching re investments. There is another investment scheme like this out of Birmingham, Alabama. It was promising 25-50% ROI in 45-60 days via partnerships. When I got some references from the guy for due diligence, things looked promising. I dropped it though when one of the references, a woman, sent e-mail correspondence back to me that was signed by the guy running the deal!! Obviously the guy is not as slick as O'Neal. I'm guessing each of his references was him or a cohort.
What kind of person are you to write such a thing. You're the most tactless, insensitive, undiplomatic person I've come across so far on this blog. I feel sorry for anyone who does business with you. It's also in bad taste to include your web site in your blog entries. Looks like you're fishing for business.
By the way...I've earned over 100% per year over the past 6 years in my investments. There was risk but everyone I've invested with was upfront and honest. Now I lost some $ with Pinnacle. They were apparently not honest nor upfront. Lesson learned but I don't need the likes of you to chime in.
Hey, slow down there cowboy. I'm the one that got flamed here for having a keen eye for the obvious.
Tactless, and insensitive? Far from it. What began as a simple observation of some basic investment principles ignored was lept upon by the poster as a personal attack, and followed up by a few "smartest-person-in-the-room" types accusing me of everything from "scolding" to this.
I'm none of that, but in this thread in this instance I'm out of patience with people that feel the need to fight me tooth and nail on what I consider to be two relatively harmless comments at worst, and at best highly instructive pointers for anyone who cares to read. To review them, they are that:
Not everyone that runs a full page, full-color advertisement in even the most reputable publication is reputable. Again, not passing judgement one way or the other on THIS investment, THESE investors, or anything like that-- just stating what I consider to be an obvious fact of life in response to an investor who was surprised to find what turned out to be disreputable investors because after all-- they ran these wonderful ads. You may review that post for yourself here:
My second observation-- corrected later, but NOT appearing in the above is that you have to DO YOUR DUE DILLIGENCE on any investment to include FINANCIALS and background checks of those you're handing your money to- and make sure you get confirmation that you're in fact dealing with who you think you are dealing with-- if for no other reason than you're handing them something more valuable than money: Your personal information. (I.D. Theft is the number one fraud in the world- don't fill out forms until the other party fills one out FIRST and you're sure they are who they say they are). It turns out the investor in question got a prospectus at least-- but it took three to five more posts to clear that up, even.
I'm not the bad guy here. I am a frustrated guy at this point because there's so much pointless resistance and argument to a few simple observations--
1. Caveat Emptor
2. Caveat Emptor
(Don't believe everything you see in an advertisement (duh!) and get the financials and references (double duh!))
Isn't this supposed to be a forum about Pinnacle and the investors who lost money hoping that they were the real deal? Sounds to me like a bunch of school girls bickering with each other. Forget the childish bashing with each other PLEASE!!!!
Let's focus on the reason this forum was started....PINNACLE.....and what we can do to recoup our losses. Anything else is just BLAH,BLAH,BLAH!!!!!
Dear Investors:
This afternoon we filed the Receiver’s First Interim Report with the United States District Court and a copy of it is now available on my website at: www.haysconsulting.net.
The report was prepared well in advance of the usual 45-day window to address many of the questions raised on this forum.
After you have read the report, if you have any additional questions, please email me at: [email protected].
Thank you for your continued patience and support of our efforts to maximize the recovery for the creditors.
Sincerely,
S. Gregory Hays, Receiver
Receiver - Thanks for making that report available. It answers a lot of questions... Since time is money, the quick turn-around is very much appreciated!
This damn punk bought himself a Maserati?, Corporate Jet WTF :shock:
This dude was out to lunch...
It does appear that he is cooperating with Hays...
It's good to see a few things:
1) The fast pace that the investigation is moving forward
2) The actual returns will be based on the estimated $42MM actual principal from investors, not overall $62MM (which includes money rolled over).
3) Timely action saved the additional expenses of $660K annual lease with a $3.3MM cost over 5 year lease.
4) Timely action prevented a corporate jet from being leased
5) At least one of the "net winner" investors has indicated that they will return funds in excess of their original principal. Hopefully others will follow.
6) They are pursuing other 3rd party involvement and will probably seize more property to throw in the pot
7) The seized money is now in a higher yield account making an additional $60K per month. What a moron! O'Neal couldn't even figure that one out! He had the money in a traditional account probably earning 1-2% interest!
I'm curious what the overall cost of their HQ office will be. The report states that the landlord "insists on performance of lease".
All in all, I'd say the Receiver is making excellent progress! It's obvious where this was going if the SEC hadn't stepped in.
Mr. Hays, Thank you for your prompt and thorough report. A welcome relief from most of the crap I've been reading here recently. :badwords:
Got the answer to my last question from reading the Receiver's report. Glad to see that this matter is being handled intelligently and swiftly. Thanks, Mr. Hays!
Does anyone anticipate that we will press charges on our own behalf eventually? Or is it possible that the Receiver will conclusivley resolve whatever can and needs to be resolved?
anyonc,
I am suspicious of Hays. MY biggest concern is that they are not truly a receiver or are administering any process of claims against PDP.
Without being able to verify that a case has been filed, ( i got lost in the US District court website) and that Hays is in fact the reciever, I suspect this is simply a delay tactic to through investors off the trail while PDP shelters the cash it has collected from us.
Has anyone been able to independently verify that the SEC has filed a case & that Hays has indeed been appointed?
I failed to do enough due dilegence the first time. I do not plan to let it happen again. If any HAys reps are reading this, please do not take offence. It is a simple matter of "once bitten, twice shy".
Tommr, if it's any help -- there are numerous articles in national media, notably the Wall Street Journal, about the SEC's action. I believe there's a download of the complaint on Hays' site.
We've all been once bitten, twice shy so I certainly understand your sentiments and concerns.
This is why I wonder whether we should press our own charges and have our own counsel as well as Hays. He's probably legit -- but what do I know? And how can we know?
Just read the first Interim Report. Found it interesting that there was no mention of Pinnacle's intention to phase out PDP and start Pinnacle Consulting. Makes me wonder if Mr. O'Neal had planned this scheme along since the beginning. Sure hope he gets exactly what he deserves and all of his staff who were consciously involved.
There was no mention of freezing assets for O'Neal's g/f and others. Does anybody knows where or what O'Neal is doing nowadays? Drinking umbrella drinks in Bahamas?
They may have frozen his assets but not "arrested" him to my knowledge. He might as well be out of the country as we speak.
I've made many warnings in the past about personal attacks. This thread has been full of them for the past 2 days. If you people can't keep to the facts, please go elsewhere.
In addition, I have temporarily banned several members for their behavior here.
I apologize that things got out of hand and hope everyone can start to discuss things properly from here on.
When I try to access the report off your website, it says the file is damaged and can't be repaired - are you aware of this?
Tommr
Just go to http://www.sec.gov to get the SEC Homepage, then click on "Litigation Releases" near the bottom center of the screen, then scroll down to October 11 and you will see our case, "Pinnacle Development Partners" Just click on that and you will see the original complaint filed in Federal Court on Oct 11, which is also found on Hays Website. Now realize that this is only the original complaint that I can find, but I'll keep looking for the other filings and let you know, but for now, there is your independent research. Well at least it's a start
Vince
Tommr
I also Googled Clarence Cooper which was the Judge that signed the court order freezing Pinnacle Assets and found out that he is indeed a U. S. District Court Judge in the Northern District of Georgia. So there's some more research for ya
Vince