Roofstock or morris invest?

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Roofstock or morris invest?

Jeff Hallenbeck
Bonney Lake, WA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 3 votes
Hello. I have recently been looking at properties through Roofstock.com or morris invest?Can any investors give me some feedback on your experiences with them and the acquisition process. I know they are a bit different in business models but it looks like both companies do a good job of streamlining the buying process for out of state investors which intrigues me. I want to make sure that people have had good experiences with the property management companies they have in place! Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y

there is no comparison in the business models. Roofstock is a Brokerage on Steriods..

Morris from the product I see them try to sell .. is moving D class to maybe C class low end rentals.

Roofstock is working for owners and working on small reasonable fee's  Morris is making bigger mark ups that are not disclosed , which is OK no flipper discloses what they are making.

But the two models could not be farther apart..

I just spent the day last week at Roofstock headquarters.. this is a game changer company.. Pretty cool really and run by very experienced real estate folks.. Morris is a tech guy running on internet fame LOL not real estate experience.. and those buying his low end product no doubt will under stand the difference's over time in buy  A and B class ( most of Roofstock) to buying D and maybe C  ( most of Morris).

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Jeff Schechter  I am totally behind locals building portfolios in these assets class's I have done that in 4 other markets in the US .. helped one operator I have funded over 200 homes and provided the long term financing for them.. so they now are proud owner of a 220 home portfolio all C class in their home town.. and all with my money  LOL>. its what I do.. but only for select folks of course..

    so to that end I agree with folks like you being born raised and living there building that portfolio.

    I will still hold out on my opinions on the OOS investor buying one 40k rental though LOL.. I personally think its too risky.. even though I fund them.. but I still think they would do better using 40k as a down stroke to buy a better quality property.

    My Indy client right now is adding about 5 homes a month to his rental portfolio that I am funding .. but these are more in the 75 to 125k range and in bates and fountain he is setting up air BNB  which he is killing it with those.. returns far greater than vanilla rentals..  but granted not everyone has someone like me :)  that can take them from zero homes to 100s of homes in a few years..

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  • Larry Fried
    Investor/RE Broker · Eugene, OR · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 968 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Chris T.:

    It seems like both companies have been heavily advertising their services, especially on social media. 

    @Jay Hinrichs Do you know if roof stock charges TK companies as well for their listing? Looks like they charge 0.5% to the buyer if a bid is won. 

    What other reputable brokerage/marketing companies have you seen out there? 

     The do charge 2.5% commission to the seller as well.  So they essentially get 3% total on a closed transaction.

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  • Andrew Cantu
    Kingston, NY · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 9 votes
    8y

    I bought a duplex from Morris Invest in Indianapolis - it was a significant mistake. The management company, Oceanpoint, is a NIGHTMARE. Oceanpoint is not part of Morris Invest therefore Morris Invest washes their hands of management problems after the sale. The management company ignores owner phone calls, email and doesn't notify about pending vacancies. The property was supposed to be recently rehabbed but I learned after purchase it was purportedly rehabbed 3 yrs previous. I found that hard to believe because I received at least one violation from Marion County inspectors every month I owned the property. Trying to get Oceanpoint, the management company, to handle the violations properly was an exercise in extreme frustration. I had a vacancy for 4 months and could never get Oceanpoint to give me the name or phone number of the leasing office so I could find out why I had a vacancy for so long. After threatening legal action, Oceanpoint bought the property back from me for the original purchase price. I'm so relieved that I'll never have to deal with Oceanpoint Management ever again. 

    Stay away. Stay far way. 

    P.S. If I'm threatened with a lawsuit over this post I would be happy to go to court. Documented proof is an excellent defense.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Andrew Cantu  low end duplex's in Indy tend to be in the WORSE neighborhoods.. they look best on paper but your experience is by no means unique I wont fund one.. and more than one of my clients has lost their butts on those.. your lucky you got out with your money back.  wonder why oceanpointe bought it back when morris sold it.. unless Oceanpointe was the owner and morris was just a broker.. can you elaborate on that since your one of the few that will actually tell it like it is.. ???  and obviously if your statement is true and no reason not to believe you the so called rehab was never done.. unless you bought it as is .. did they represent fresh rehab and fib about that ?

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  • Andrew Cantu
    Kingston, NY · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 9 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Andrew Cantu  low end duplex's in Indy tend to be in the WORSE neighborhoods.. they look best on paper but your experience is by no means unique I wont fund one.. and more than one of my clients has lost their butts on those.. your lucky you got out with your money back.  wonder why oceanpointe bought it back when morris sold it.. unless Oceanpointe was the owner and morris was just a broker.. can you elaborate on that since your one of the few that will actually tell it like it is.. ???  and obviously if your statement is true and no reason not to believe you the so called rehab was never done.. unless you bought it as is .. did they represent fresh rehab and fib about that ?

    I was one of Morris Invest's out of state investors. I'm so glad for the operative word - was. The duplex I purchased in Indianapolis was represented by Morris Invest as a recent rehab. Judging from the multiple and significant violations I received from Marion County that was not true. The violations from Marion County included electrical problems, mold and crumbling foundation problems. 
    The purchase money was wired to Morris Invest. I learned about Oceanpoint, the NIGHTMARE mgmt company, after I purchased the property. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Andrew Cantu  then if Morris was the seller  ( did you look at your deed) why would Oceanpointe a PM company buy the property from you?  

    what I have seen posted before on the Morris product is that they sell you a home that is in need of rehab.. you pay cash for it.. then U give them the money to rehab it.. that's were others have had some issues either with time it took poor communication and of course like you the amount scheduled for rehab will not do a TRUE turn key rehab on those old properties.. can you clarify those details as well.. its very good info.. so many of these folks interested in this product or newbies buying the most risky property and they are least able to deal with them..  locals I get that they can deal with them 

    but boy you take low end rentals like these and over time its a money pit no doubt

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Andrew Cantu  also are you sure you wired the purchase funds to morris  most folks wire to a title company or closing attorney it would be very odd to wire directly to a seller.. that's were I have seen mega horror stories.. ( not saying that would happen with these guys but history has shown that's were folks can lose big bucks being to trusting)

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  • Andrew Cantu
    Kingston, NY · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 9 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Andrew Cantu  also are you sure you wired the purchase funds to morris  most folks wire to a title company or closing attorney it would be very odd to wire directly to a seller.. that's were I have seen mega horror stories.. ( not saying that would happen with these guys but history has shown that's were folks can lose big bucks being to trusting)

    I wired the money to a title company. I followed the wiring instructions from Morris Invest. It is kinda hinky that Oceanpoint purchased the duplex from me at the same price I purchased it and used the same title company for the transaction. I'm so glad to be out of that deal and rid of Oceanpoint mgmt. What a NIGHTMARE!

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  • Larry Fried
    Investor/RE Broker · Eugene, OR · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 968 votes
    8y

    @Jay Hinrichs @Andrew Cantu From what I gathered and learned fairly recently Morris Invest is not the owner of any of the properties they are marketing.  Ocean Pointe and its affiliates are the real sellers/owners, and MI just marketing as their own.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    @Larry Fried  that makes sense that's why oceanpointe bought it back.. of course @Andrew Cantu thought Morris owned it . but probably did not concentrate on the actual closing docs like most don't.

    Now that begs the question Larry is Morris a licensed real estate broker in all these states or licensed agent in all these states he is working in.. that would defiantly be required by law.   can't be at his level and hide behind marketing fee's the same way your a licensed broker.   And allows you to collect fee's for your hard work helping buyers

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  • Andrew Cantu
    Kingston, NY · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 9 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Larry Fried  that makes sense that's why oceanpointe bought it back.. of course @Andrew Cantu thought Morris owned it . but probably did not concentrate on the actual closing docs like most don't.

    Now that begs the question Larry is Morris a licensed real estate broker in all these states or licensed agent in all these states he is working in.. that would defiantly be required by law.   can't be at his level and hide behind marketing fee's the same way your a licensed broker.   And allows you to collect fee's for your hard work helping buyers

    Clayton Morris is a host on Cluster Fox and Friends. For that reason alone I should've known better and suspected a scam.  

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  • Larry Fried
    Investor/RE Broker · Eugene, OR · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 968 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Larry Fried  that makes sense that's why oceanpointe bought it back.. of course @Andrew Cantu thought Morris owned it . but probably did not concentrate on the actual closing docs like most don't.

    Now that begs the question Larry is Morris a licensed real estate broker in all these states or licensed agent in all these states he is working in.. that would defiantly be required by law.   can't be at his level and hide behind marketing fee's the same way your a licensed broker.   And allows you to collect fee's for your hard work helping buyers

     Well, a quick look at their site gives no indication of being licensed or a brokerage.  So Jay, I would say that is a very interesting question.

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  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    Larry Fried ocean point lost their license so real estate in Indiana so I guess that answers your question
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  • Larry Fried
    Investor/RE Broker · Eugene, OR · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 968 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    Larry Fried ocean point lost their license so real estate in Indiana so I guess that answers your question

     Yes, I saw that post. 

    0Reply
  • Marty Summers
    Bradenton, FL · Member since 2017 · 168 posts · 39 votes
    8y

    WOW this is has been an interesting thread I started. I am glad I did NOT invest with a turnkey all together. I have decided to purchase our own buildings, multi-family or SFH... and start managing them myself. I am not sure the value these turnkeys actually bring to the table except reaping a huge profit from investors.

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  • Nicole Hoss
    Johnston, IA · Member since 2016 · 129 posts · 50 votes
    8y

    @Marty Summers That's great!! I'm glad you are able to find something that works for you. You are fortunate to be in Indiana and close to where so many people are wanting to invest. For myself, I still like turnkey and having immediate cash flow since I don't have the time to stay on top of a rehab, plus, I'm out of state. Trusting an out of state company can be really hard with so many shady companies (not just in REI) out there. I'm glad I found a turnkey company that works for me! PS. Marty, after you and I spoke, I told my husband that I was pretty sure you and your wife would be our best friends if we lived in Indiana. You seriously are so funny!

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  • Tyler Jahnke
    Rental Property Investor · Oakland, CA · Member since 2016 · 341 posts · 643 votes
    8y

    @Jeff Hallenbeck - It's a LONG ONE, but take a look at my experience with Morris Invest and investing out of state on my blog and on my BP post here as well: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/392...

    My property cash flowed for 11 months, then became vacant without notice, and had a squatter in the garage. I'm turning things around right now and have learned a lot. Let me know if you have any questions!

    -Tyler

    1Reply
  • Colton AshbyPro Member
    Mission Viejo, CA · Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    Thank you everyone on this thread.  It has been extremely helpful (obviously I'm a new guy!).  I am still in the research phase of acquiring rentals and all of this information has been awesome.  Thanks again to all.

    0Reply
  • Ken Calcote
    Investor · Irvine, CA · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 8 votes
    8y

    @Jay Hinrichs Wish I had listened to you about low price duplexes in Indy (coming from an investor on the West Coast with experience in Atlanta, Memphis and Orange County). I purchased from High Return Real Estate not knowing anything about the market aside from listening to their podcast selling Indy really hard and why it is such a great renters market. 

    I took the bait but unfortunately it has been nothing but issues. Initial Rehab and delay in completion after closing, over 2 months to get my first tenant ($600 a month) in a Duplex (more about this tenant later) and the other side has sit empty  since  I purchased the property in July 2017 and all this after lowering the advertised price from $600 to $500! Also the first tenant was consistently late on rent and has stopped paying rent in April so eviction time in May and no income at all (for the four months she was actually there).  

    What a learning experience! I now understand why the locals won't even touch those..

    1Reply
  • Jeff Schechter
    Developer · Nashville, TN · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 406 votes
    8y

    @Ken Calcote We agree that the performance on your property has been less than stellar.  This is NOT an indication of the Indy market, nor is it an indication of a bad property.  In fact, you have a great property! ...it is simply not a good match for the PM company involved.   

    Although we have not announced this formally yet, we have set up a new in-house PM company to better manage our growing client base.  Your account will be one of the first to be switched over.  Thanks for your patience with us, as we move through the next phase in our growth.

    1Reply
  • Anastasios Ioannou
    Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    Roofstock has transparency. From my personal experience, Morris Invest is the total opposite.

    1Reply
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