NORRIS GROUP REO BOOT CAMP
Homeowner · Inland Empire, CA · Member since 2011 · 27 posts · 1 vote
anyone have experience with the norris group reo bootcamp? im trying to start out but the cost of the boot camp could mean not being able to startup at all so wanted some honest feedback on it
Thanks everyone for weighing in. The conversation has been quite fair. I have to be careful because I know Mr Dorkin and monitors don't like self promotion. Hopefully this won't be too promotional.
The Norris Group has two divisions: Investments and hard money loans. The end goal of our education is hopefully people will use us for hard money. Better yet, we're hoping we can show investors how we'd like them to structure offers so we can easily get them funded and also have all parties make money at the end of the day. If we do a good job educating and funding, perhaps one day you'll come back and invest in trust deeds when you're tired of flipping or being a land lord. It's a long customer life cycle.
We do offer the credit/rebate program for our advanced training as an extra incentive and a "thank you" for using our funding. It's all CA specific education and the strategies will change and shift as the California market warrants.
Our investment side used to buy 100% REO. Right now, they are 100% trustee sale. Nothing that says that won't change as we've been 100% builder before too. We go where we can best utilize our talents and resources. We over-improved properties back in 2009 and got frustrated with the appraisals coming back low. Instead of lowering our level of rehabs, we looked into trustee sales. Trustee sales offered a different avenue where we could leverage efficiency and volume, and that's what we're good at.
We still teach REOs and short sales because 1) We've done hundreds and know how to do it; 2) We know that's where the majority of deals are coming from now (see tngtrustdeeds.com/blog - these are the deals we're closing every day in our loan department in Socal) 3) Trustee sale requires all cash and is extremely competitive, not for beginners.
We visit the courthouse steps at boot camp simply to go over what's involved and what they'd need to get used to if they decide to go that route. Margins are extremely tight and the competition is not friendly to rookies. Then again, REOs and short sales are not a sure bet either, but at least you get to see the inside and have more time. All strategies require firm knowledge of repairs costs and markets values, no matter what strategy you pursue. All cash, however, makes barrier to entry a lot higher. While we do occasionally refi a trustee sale buyer out of a recent purchase, short sales and REOs are a much more frequent transaction.
For beginners, I suggest taking a real estate principles course. There's an awesome company in Riverside called First Tuesday that has a take home course. I have their entire broker series. If you ever plan to get your Realtor license, this course can go towards that effort. It's under $150. Getting basic real estate language under your belt is a huge help.
We also have an essentials course which is aimed at beginners and is not expensive. We also recommend people apply for our loan program before they come through boot camp. We can't make people borrow from us but we hope if they ever need funding, they'll consider using us.
The radio shows and news blogs are probably our biggest contribution to our industry and its free. Over 240 shows and 100+ hours of free info is in our archives. We purposefully don't allow advertising in our show. Info only,.no fluff, all content.
Thanks for giving us a fair shake. Hopefully this won't get deleted but Josh knows I'm still a huge fan, even if he does.
Hi,
Curious myself, how much, how many days, do they take you through analyzing and completing a deal ?
Thanks, Richard C
@Richard $5000. 3 days. good question about if they walk you through analyzing and completing a deal. its not on their website. call diana at their office for more info.
Unfortunately that is just about par to course anymore Jerry. When I started my coaching program, I was gonna do the same thing. It is just an easy way to make a fortune and not have any accountability to your students success.
Granted, I am sure you will get TONS of information in the boot camp, but when you leave will you have the systems and processes in place to put it all together? You will also need to ask about their tech support system. Will they be available to you weekly to discuss deals and hold you accountable for getting your "homework" done that is needed to move you in the right direction?
It is kind of like the difference between going to a weekend training seminar to learn about diet and exercise so you can loose weight VS. having a personal trainer for 6 months that is measuring your progress and telling you what to do and what order to do it in.
The part that sucks for guys like me is that I don't make enough at my coaching to live like a rock star, so I gotta keep flipping deals and managing rentals, LOL! Good luck, let me know what you liked about the boot camp and what you did not like if you end up goin! :mrgreen:
I work with them a lot.
I thought their boot camp was worth it. They provide an overview of buying via REOs, short-sales, trustee sales. They also review how to estimate fix up costs and provide a pretty good spreadsheets to help. For ours they took us on a property tour of 3 or 4 they just bought.
If you use their hard money they will rebate the full cost of the training after a couple loans.
I know a few who took it primarily because, at the time, they said Norris would apply the cost of the course to hard money fees if you borrowed from them. They flip as well as buy and hold homes, and needed an HML at the time, so the course was essentially free to them. Don't remember it costing $5k though.
I'm curious Jerry, if you don't have enough money to take the course, how will you buy an REO when you find one? Since you say you're starting out, and presumably have no experience, as well as limited funds, you might find it difficult to buy something.
I’d never discourage anyone from learning, and the Norris Group really does have the great reputation Loc noted, but are you sure you’ve got the right strategy? Perhaps you’ve got a partner? Have you discussed your situation with them?
Jeff
I borrowed from Norris one time and had no idea he gave boot camps - I later went to the Boot Camp for free because they gave it to me as a part of the loan I had already completed.
I do not think I would go though, just team up with an experienced re-habber and learn by doing. $5,000 is pretty steep to learn information you can get off this forum for free.
1. How to fund a deal.
2. How to find a deal.
3. How to analyze a deal.
4. How to price re-hab.
5. How to determine re-sale.
Is there anything above that you cannot find out yourself for less than $5K and save the $5K for your first deal?
Jason S.,
i might just take you up on that offer.
whats your experience with real estate?
Anybody else think it's a little weird that Bruce advocates buying at auction (and does so himself from time to time) but is teaching a boot camp on how to buy REO? Moreover... anyone actually getting solid discounts on REO in the IE?
Nope, nothing in the IE. Just move on.
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Just kidding of course. I know this forum is not up for that type of humor so I thought I would throw down a more complete response.
I think Bruce gives good solid information. I just do not think it is worth $5,000. But then again, $5K is not much when it comes to a RE transaction, even in the IE.
If you want a taste of Bruce he has archives of his radio show that are pretty boring as Bruce is not exactly a motviational speaker, but informative. You have to understand Bruce is a data cruncher, not a dynamic guru.
There is a local guy in Moreno Valley (Wholesale Lending or Wholesale Capital something like that, office right off the 60 with a big lit sign) who has a radio show on KTIE I think that will give you a class on why to buy rentals, then throw you on a bus and show you some local potential rentals and how to price out the re-hab. I am not a fan of all his theories but - if you know nothing - it is a primer for only a couple hundred and you do get a bus ride through Moreno Valley and a few slices of pizza.
As for discounts in the IE, no there are not any discounts. Just plain old buy an as-is at market, then fix and flip. Straight transactions same as in the OC or LA.
Yes, I have bought many REOs in the Inland Empire. The market has sure got competitive compared to 2 years ago but deals are out there. Check out my blog and you cans see some of them.
As per the course:
I still stand by that is worth the charge, especially if you ever plan on utilizing their hard money. You can go for free with 2-3 loans.
My favorite parts:
1. It was a small group (we had only 14 people). You get direct access to ask questions to the other speakers.
2. They had the appraiser that appraisers most of their hard money deals come in and talk about things to watch out for and how lenders do comps. Those 5-6 items have helped me think like an appraiser when I need too and made/saved me a lot of money. He even covered a couple recent hard money appraisals he did.
3. They have the manager of a decent sized REO office come in and explain what they are looking for. What are warning signs.
4. The lending manager for hard money gave a 2 hour talk on his guidelines. What he needs. What he won't loan on. Common pit falls.
5. The boot camp is a small group, of real investors, I still communicate with some of the other people that attended.
6. They gave access to their password protected web site with excel forms, discounts. I still use it today.
The things I didn't like:
1. Coming in as a relatively experienced investor I think they had to catch up everyone to the basics.
2. We went to the trustee sale and I think the value of the trip for an entry level investor wasn't there. That is probably better taught in a whole new course. But we haven't really pursued that buying option.
Jason is probably right about recommending checking out the radio shows first. If you like those you will like the boot camp. By no means is it a Tony Robbins style 'raw-raw' seminar.
Yes, I have bought many REOs in the Inland Empire. The market has sure got competitive compared to 2 years ago but deals are out there.
Yeah Jake. Its too tight in the IE, we do not need more OC money out here.
HA!
Don't worry fellas... not going to be buying off the MLS anytime soon, the courthouse steps are working just fine. My only point in saying this was that Bruce is selling a course based on something he doesn't do himself. I guess that's a good way to weed out his competition, but doesn't seem like it speaks well for the course.
Any good books, blogs or resources on buying at the court house here in ca?
I suggest you start out marketing to absentee owners or drive for dollars looking for vacant homes, find the owners and negotiate to buy their home. You may also go after REO properties, just remember that you wil also need a real POF for the offer to even be considered (assuming you will be making all-cash offers, anything short of that puts you at a disadvanatage).
I know the Norris Group and they are highly respected, but I know nothing about there course.
For comparison's sake, I ran a course which was for 8 weeks (not 3 days) and less than 1/2 that cost. That said, I do not know about what material was covered in the Norris Group's education, but I do know that trying to cram all the info you need to know into 3 days is very difficult.
I believe that information is good, but applying that information is required for success, so the question is always, what hand-holding and support do you have to ensure your success? If the answer to that question is satisfactory to you for the price, and the educator is reputable and not a guru scam artist, then perhaps it is a good idea for you.
This is truth ^^^.
As for Norris, I want to place a clarification (just in case he is reading this, and I know he is, and I need to borrow again in the future).
His course is good. It even covers what to do in different markets as well as how to anticipate changes in the market. He has a whole system of recognizing the signs of the market etc.
I do question the price, but then again $5K keeps out the rif raf and it is credited to your first loan. Like I said, I went free because I had borrowed from Norris, so it was included with the loan.
I also know that Norris buys MLS REO's because I have put in offers against him before on MLS REO's - so I believe he does practice what he preaches.
Way better than a book or a blog, we host monthly investor workshops on buying at the steps, specifically in the IE.
Next event is 9/14 at 6:00 PM in Irvine. It won't cost you a thing, and we even bring the beer.
Still working on doing an event in Denver Josh...will keep you posted ;)
Jake, I have been meaning to get to your meeting for some time now. Shoot me an email with the specifics (location, time, etc) and hopefully, we can drink a few together in person, not just with icons here!
Jake CC/forward Me in the email with the info On your workshop
Without knowing anything about the content of the course, I like the earn back concept. If his company provides a valuable service that you will need in the future, maybe paying to learn what you need to do is a fair trade especially since you can get the money back (slowly) over time.
Thanks everyone for weighing in. The conversation has been quite fair. I have to be careful because I know Mr Dorkin and monitors don't like self promotion. Hopefully this won't be too promotional.
The Norris Group has two divisions: Investments and hard money loans. The end goal of our education is hopefully people will use us for hard money. Better yet, we're hoping we can show investors how we'd like them to structure offers so we can easily get them funded and also have all parties make money at the end of the day. If we do a good job educating and funding, perhaps one day you'll come back and invest in trust deeds when you're tired of flipping or being a land lord. It's a long customer life cycle.
We do offer the credit/rebate program for our advanced training as an extra incentive and a "thank you" for using our funding. It's all CA specific education and the strategies will change and shift as the California market warrants.
Our investment side used to buy 100% REO. Right now, they are 100% trustee sale. Nothing that says that won't change as we've been 100% builder before too. We go where we can best utilize our talents and resources. We over-improved properties back in 2009 and got frustrated with the appraisals coming back low. Instead of lowering our level of rehabs, we looked into trustee sales. Trustee sales offered a different avenue where we could leverage efficiency and volume, and that's what we're good at.
We still teach REOs and short sales because 1) We've done hundreds and know how to do it; 2) We know that's where the majority of deals are coming from now (see tngtrustdeeds.com/blog - these are the deals we're closing every day in our loan department in Socal) 3) Trustee sale requires all cash and is extremely competitive, not for beginners.
We visit the courthouse steps at boot camp simply to go over what's involved and what they'd need to get used to if they decide to go that route. Margins are extremely tight and the competition is not friendly to rookies. Then again, REOs and short sales are not a sure bet either, but at least you get to see the inside and have more time. All strategies require firm knowledge of repairs costs and markets values, no matter what strategy you pursue. All cash, however, makes barrier to entry a lot higher. While we do occasionally refi a trustee sale buyer out of a recent purchase, short sales and REOs are a much more frequent transaction.
For beginners, I suggest taking a real estate principles course. There's an awesome company in Riverside called First Tuesday that has a take home course. I have their entire broker series. If you ever plan to get your Realtor license, this course can go towards that effort. It's under $150. Getting basic real estate language under your belt is a huge help.
We also have an essentials course which is aimed at beginners and is not expensive. We also recommend people apply for our loan program before they come through boot camp. We can't make people borrow from us but we hope if they ever need funding, they'll consider using us.
The radio shows and news blogs are probably our biggest contribution to our industry and its free. Over 240 shows and 100+ hours of free info is in our archives. We purposefully don't allow advertising in our show. Info only,.no fluff, all content.
Thanks for giving us a fair shake. Hopefully this won't get deleted but Josh knows I'm still a huge fan, even if he does.
Aaron, I don't see any self promoting in your post, just the facts and I think it will be allowed to stay.
I forgot to mention one thing in my post as well and that is the fact that the Norris education program involves several speakers from their respective industries who come out to speak at the event. I have no doubt that they do that for a price, as such, that is a cost incurred by the Norris group and perhaps one of several reasons why the price must be adjusted accordingly.
Be that as it may, as stated, no matter who you use for paid education, just make sure that you have the capabilities to apply the knowledge learned in the real world (or that you have your hand held while practicing it) and that the educator not only has the real knowledge/experience and practices currently what they are teaching, but that they are also reputable. In the case of the Norris group, part two of that equation is already covered.
I agree his post is a fair description of what is being offered and it is up to the reader to decide to use the service.
Aaron - thanks for chiming in. For those of you who care, I happen to be friends with Aaron and think he is one of the truly good people in the business. While I can't speak to the course, I can't imagine that anything he or his father would do is even slightly below par -- take that for what its worth.
Hi all,
So, for those interested in the advanced course. Would it also include some mentoring / handholding on making a deal (after the course ) ?
Didn't see a specific answer to this.
Thanks, Richard C