Lifestyles Unlimited of Texas
San Antonio, TX · Member since 2012 · 22 posts · 17 votes
Lifestyles Unlimited of Texas
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Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2011 · 84 posts · 45 votes
14yI joined lifestyles back in 2010 when I was just getting my feet wet in RE and didn't know about biggerpockets. The $500 2-day was educational and I did learn a lot not knowing much going in. At the time I would say $500 was worth it for me, but that's about it.
I'm sure in one of the ten pages of the other lifestyles forum thread it covers this but there's three levels of membership; 1) $500 - you get to attend the 2-day, you get access to their "vendor's list"; 2) $5000 - SFH mentorship where you get emails from their SFH mentors (in-house realtors), access to their online SFH education, SFH roadtrips 3) $10K - MFH mentorship - where you get emails of their multi-family deals, get access to their MFH mentor and MFH education, get to attend their field trips where they tour current memeber MFH deals.
Vendor's list - don't be fooled that just because they're on their vendor's list that you won't have problems. It's hit/miss like angieslist. They have a review system where people put their feedback negative/positive. Most are positive since I think most members are affraid to post anything negative. And in some cases some of the positive reviews are biased since I've had vendor's email me to give them positive feedback before a job was done b/c they were so close in winning "vendor of the month". I've heard to be a vendor it's $500 a month. I've seen vendors come and go as well. On the flip side I have to say that I have met some good contacts and develop good relationships with some of the vendors that I still keep in touch to this day even though I'm not a lifestyle member anymore, but I recommend that you still do your due diligence when you select a vendor from their list. The best vendors/trades people that I've found was not from their vendor's list but from the local meetup RE investment email list, which is FREE!
SFH Mentors - their SFH mentors are in-house realtors. They send email blasts of "deals" they found quoting exact numbers like "$535 cashflow / month, XX% equity capture, etc.", but yet give an approximate on their rehab and purchase price. e.g. 70K purchase price, 12K rehab. i'm pretty sure they don't even do a walk-thru of the property they advertise since it's just an active listing on MLS, which you can find yourself through mls or realtor.com. the emails contains basic info but not the property address so you have to reply back to the mentor that you're interested. they say that they offer the deal to the first the responds, but i have a feeling that doesn't happen all the time. since you're competing against all the other members that respond to the email blast and they can only submit one offer, don't count on the in-house realtors finding you deals-that-they-scrub-off-mls. most members i've talked to find it on their own and submit it to their mentors to write the offers up, if at all.
They offer a product called quest, which offer mls access to run comps for $79/month. i haven't used it but i think there are much more cost effective and creative ways to gain access.
MFH Mentors - in dallas there was only one MFH mentor. all the PIG members pretty much seemed to be fighting for his time. 20,30,40,etc. MFH members and one MFH vendor. you can see how that works.
To some extent when you work with their mentors (SFH/MFH) there's a leap of faith you have to take that the deal their bringing to you and the info they're telling you is legit and you should act now. If you didn't, the mentors move on to the next willing member who could act... now!
A tactic they use for you to sign up for memberships is that "you will earn back your membership fees." Sounds good, but that's just them giving back a cut of the realtor's commission check IF you use their in-house realtors if you can put up with the competition with other members for the realtor's time.
They also have online education for SFH/MFH investing. Education being online recordings of live sessions they recorded out of the houston location. it's pretty boring if you can sit through all of it and you could learn a lot more from BP. IMO I wouldn't say there's a lot of substance in the education for sitting through 60-90 minutes of it.
My opinion - spend the $500 for the 2-day but absolutely don't sign up for any other memberships no matter how convinced/pursuaded you are. If you're willing to spend $5K to use their realtors, you might as well spend $2k and get your RE license yourself. If you're willing to spend $10K you might as well spend the money toward more accredited education like the CCIM for MFH education. Or just spend more time on BP, which cost you NOTHING.
This was my experience, it could be diff in SA/HOU. Mostly negative since I'm still bruised for spending 10K. The grass is not greener after the $500. I was persuaded since I was a newb, eager, and didn't know of other resources like meetup groups and BP.
161 Replies
re: Dean E. and hard money
Yea. I'm surprised by the 80%. But that makes more sense that the real issue is not the HML. Its being able to find deals that end up at 70% ARV or better. Sounds like there's a lot of competition over there.You're best bet is probably to find something that is really in bad shape and needs a lot of rehab. A lot of investors won't touch those deals because they want quick in and out and less risk.
But if the only way you can get in is with less out of pocket, the bigger rehab deals usually offer the bigger discounts.
i.e. 100k that needs 10k in rehab might be available for 70k.
But that same 100k house that needs 30k in rehab, might be available for 40k.I also see what you mean about LU finding the deals. Yea, I never got the sense that they would be much help in actually finding deals for people.
I only listen to the podcasts. But I really see the value from that group in the networking, the vendor list, and the unlimited Q&A. I really wish I could have had those 3 tools in my bag when I started.
I'm also a big believer that being around other investors and listening to investing stories is a helpful motivator that helps keep the focus on investing instead of why the village is being such a stickler on my rehab or why my tenant is late with their rent this month. :-)
It looks like you're on the right path now and I think you'll find that noone is going to find better deals for you than you anyway. Most of the realtors I've ever worked with don't have a clue what a deal is. A very few are ok at it but still don't seem to grasp what a great deal really means.
Since its your money, you will and you'll find some...... You only need 2 or 3 a year to do well.
Originally posted by Don Konipol:
Dean E., you hit the nail on the head. It's not that LU doesn't provide real mentoring, they do. It's not that they don't give good advise, they do. It's just that they are a SALES organization first - so they over promise and under deliver.We have all reached the point that we judge service providers more harshly than we used to. Years ago if a service provider didn't "steal you blind" that was good enough. We now expect the service provider's number one priority to be providing great service - not making a sale. Just paying lip service to being dedicated to great service doesn't cut it.
I don't think we judge providers more harshly than before. Years ago we didn't have the internet to exchange information, so there really wasn't anything we could do about it. As for me, I didn't expect great service. I expected it to be somewhat exaggerated. I think I was pretty lenient considering I raised my criteria from 4k down to 20, and they still didn't find me a house. That's a 500% lowering of the bar on my part ( or should I say price increase to avoid backwards math). I didn't ask that they find me a house for 45,000 either. What few houses they find are mostly over 100k which was over my price range. In the whole time I was a member I only got 1 personal listing sent to me. When I'd send them email, 20% the time I got no reply back or a cut and paste "welcome to lifestyles" auto type response, even when I wasn't new anymore.
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes13y
Originally posted by Dean E.:
...PS something just doesn't look right with the text consistency on my screen
I've found that happens on BP whenever you quote somebody and don't leave a completely blank line between the quoted section and what you type in. It's not just you, everybody sees things that way under the conditions I just described.
- Rental Property Investor · Manchester, NH · Member since 2013 · 447 posts · 81 votes13y
Sounds like a condom brand.
- Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes13y
Thought I'd jump back in here too. LU is a good mentoring organization, if you live in Texas. As some of the earlier threads stated, they tend to over promise a little. I stated in an earlier thread that I really thought they were great, and flew out there and joined up as a PIG member this past November. What I've found since then, is the on line classes they have are dated. For instance, many are from 2011. How can I take a class on financing today that was made in 2011? I've called for advice a couple of times and was not impressed. I owned 9 homes before joining, so I had a pretty good foundation. A partnership class was recorded recently, and I've been waiting for four weeks for it to be posted on the website...it's still not there. I called two different L.U. offices and got two different answers about the class. Each person also said, I'll call you back with the answer. That was four days ago, and no return e-mail or callback from the "mentors." Again, I'm not here to bash L.U. I think it's a good program (if you actually live in Texas close to one of the offices)where you can actually attend meetings. You would think for 10,000 they would stream the important classes for the members. The basic membership is really all you need.
- Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2009 · 40 posts · 9 votes13y
Thomas Williamson some of our classes are out dated. With this moving real estate market we are in the process of updating that now. We are also doing a lot more live webinars for the out of town members that need that interaction. Some of the upcoming topics for webinars will be Inspections Save you Time and Money, The Closing Process-Reading Your HUD 1 and Title Policy, Rehab Right, Tenant Selection and more... So we are addressing the videos and classes to strengthen our online presence. We have also added cameras to our new Dallas office in our expansion of that location. So this will also add a lot of new content. Hope this helps...
- Rental Property Investor · Lompoc, CA · Member since 2010 · 197 posts · 183 votes13y
Hi All
It is tough to be a mentor on this site I see..lol I have been teaching since 2011 and love what I do. I do deals every month and I teach my students what they want to learn. My students have their point of view just like everyone else so you have to let them vent and learn from that... Step forward or turn right or left..Let it go, because there is an old saying that you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all the time... This is just my view !!!! - Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes13y
Credit where credit is due.
I'll be the first to give credit when someone steps up and takes care of an issue or a problem. As noted in my post from above, I'm a LU member, and I recently voiced concern and disgust with recent issues I experienced with LU. Natalalie Pilkinton took this issue to heart, and immediately reached out to me via e-mail trying to address the concerns I had. Not only did she address my concerns, but the V.P. of Lifestyles (Steve Davis) personally called me yesterday to apologize, and address what concerns I had. To me, that's total class from both Steve Davis and Natalie Pilkinton. No, I don't get anything in return for this post, and what I value more than anything is good customer service. Thank you very much Natalie and Steve!
- Real Estate Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 80 posts · 11 votes13y
I was with them years ago. I was impressed with the apts training. I am using a different investing method for SFR though...I don't like risking my credit for business deals.
- Investor · Cypress, TX · Member since 2013 · 403 posts · 59 votes13y
I am a member of LU and like a few others I believe they have overpromised on a few things. But I'm moving past that and feel like they are really giving me what I paid for. I remember the first thing they told me in my first workshop.
"LU is not ground breaking. It does not have a secret to investing. They will not teach you anything you could not learn on your own in a library or on the internet."
I go to all the workshop, webinars, and road trips. I am learing all the time because I am putting the time in. I also love this website. There is not a better real estate website on the internet so I thank Josh and everyone on this site for all the help you have given me.
- 13yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Chris Crockett, it appears you just joined BiggerPockets today. Welcome, however do you plan to be an active participant or did you join just to post about LU?
Originally posted by Chris Crockett:
I live in Dallas & have been a member of LU for a few years. .... What they teach is basic common sense that any person could learn on their own in a few hours on the net or reading a good real estate investment book.So, what you're saying is that people shouldn't waste the $500 (or whatever it is they charge)...they should instead just read BiggerPockets and maybe buy a good real estate book (I think BiggerPockets sells those too :)...
Thanks for the advice!
- Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes13y
Originally posted by Don Konipol:
Chris Crockett, it appears you just joined BiggerPockets today. Welcome, however do you plan to be an active participant or did you join just to post about LU?I bet you a steak dinner that either he doesn't ever post here again or posts maybe a couple more posts before he leaves.
- Specialist · Irving, TX · Member since 2013 · 57 posts · 3 votes13y
I attended their free seminar today and it was cool, no complaints but I've been a member on BP for a few days and I'm confident I'll get as much if not more from this open source forum than LSU
I'm apart of an internet marketing forum similar to BP and the ability to ask questions or locate answers to previously asked questions is great
Maybe if I had of never stumbled across BP I might have let my eagerness get the best of me and paid the $500. However, I feel confident that I'll learn and build relationships with other rookies and veterans here on the site
I love the debate on this topic for some reason. Maybe because I used to listen to their podcasts every day before I got my new job and no longer have 60 mile commute to and from work every day.
But I have never understood the negativity about this group - at least not at the $500 account membership. BP is unique in that its free. And its the biggest self help source for investors there is.
But it also has its limitations. I don't see how LU membership fee is all that crazy. Is it 2 years and $500? The largest local REI out here by me charges $20 a meeting.
And Lifestyles has weekly things that include free alcohol. If I lived there, I'd be a member in a heartbeat. Its nothing more than a local REI. And the number of members in that group is beyond what most REI's could ever hope to have.
How is that not a good thing for a beginning or any other level investor? Isn't the goal of going to REI's to network with a bunch of other investors so you can learn more investing strategies? And unlike most REI meetings, at least these guy always have their show and tells where they have people get up there and walk through their deals (both residential and commercial). And they give you free alcohol while you listen?
Believe me, thats a heck of a lot better than you'll find at just about any other REI group and the other groups charge you membership fees too.
So while I'm not suggesting the group is the best thing since sliced bread. I dont' understand how they take such a beating in here given they're better than anything else out there that I've seen - at least for that $500 level.
What do you guys think the REI's are charging? They're not free and you're not getting any mind shattering information in those either.
What LU, REI's and anything else gives you is the ability to get to know fellow investors and/or other vendors that may help you in some other way in your investing (i.e. contractors, lenders, etc).
I love BP but even they've got their own thing they're starting to ramp up on the paid membership too. And they don't provide us any alcohol if we sign up either. :-)
Originally posted by Chris Crockett:
J. Scott, you do have a point. One can also go on any number of sites & learn how to perform a root canal without the aid & expense of a dentist.You said that what LU teaches is "common sense" and can be learned for free online. Now you're comparing it to going to medical school. Which is it?
$500 is a small fee to learn and form lifetime contacts in the real world.That's perfectly fair. And if what is being offered for $500 provides at least $500 in value, I'm all for it! Can you be specific about what you get for $500 and for how long?
It seems like many people on this thread have never actually even been to a closing.I went to one on a field trip back in middle school. Wasn't as fun as the Smithsonian.
- Investor · Cypress, TX · Member since 2013 · 403 posts · 59 votes13y
I started off above the basic $500 membership and I will say again I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. I'm there every week for a seminar and they really guide you through the process. Just the contacts alone saved me $4k when a tenant flooded my house and I had to replace the floors. I've been to several clubs in my area and I liked this one the best. Other clubs are charging $250/year so for their basic membership they are not that different from others. Another club I went to wanted to charge $23k for their mentoring program (not sure why they call it mentoring when you have to pay for it).
- Flipper · Irvine, CA · Member since 2013 · 349 posts · 45 votes13y
Very interesting, as a fairly new investor from Orange County, what I'm getting out of this topic is $500 is worth it, especially if you live in that Texas area.
I was going to start a topic about what BP's members thought about Scott Carson "the note guy" but almost afraid to find out.
- Virtual Assistant · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2012 · 7 posts · 2 votes13y
Only on Bigger Pockets can you get the truth of a matter now-a-days. I frequent the site daily but rarely post or comment. I would have to say that this post was very informative. I too receive a bunch of emails from LU and considered signing up because the $500 is not an awful lot of money, but if I wanted to give it away I can give it to a local charity. I will stick to combing the pages of BP.
- Involved In Real Estate · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2011 · 144 posts · 78 votes13y
After reading through many of the posts, I thought I'd put my two cents worth in.
First of all, let me disclose a few things:
- I have been a member of bigger pockets for a while, and read the emails often but seldom post - no, I did not join only to post about Lifestyles Unlimited, but because I enjoy what I read.
- I was a Realtor for Lifestyles Unlimited in the Houston office from July of 2011 through October 2012. I would have remained with Lifestyles, but have moved to South Florida.
- Before I hung my license with Lifestyles Unlimited, I joined the group on the $500 level.
The original questions were: "My question is how beneficial is this group? Has anyone on here experienced success in real estate investing from their training? Is it worth the $500 membership?"
How beneficial the group is, depends on how much you utilize the information and assistance they offer. I've seen many people join at the $500 level who did absolutely nothing with their membership after the 2 day seminar. For them, I would say it was most likely a waste of money. I've seen others learn from it and take what they've learned and wisely invest in real estate; and for them it was probably a wise investment of $500.
I've also known members who invested at the "Challenge" level. This level is for people who only want to invest in single family residential investments at this time. The membership dues are less than the PIG (Preferred Investors Group) level by about half and I believe is the most beneficial membership level for new members. When you join at the Challenge level, you not only get access to the mentors, vendors, 2 day, etc. (just like the $500 FFP (Financial Freedom Program) level but you also have the agents that work for Lifestyles Realty looking for properties for you. Let me expand on that a little bit...
When the agents at Lifestyles Realty search for properties, yes, they scrub the MLS for properties that meet the basic criteria set forth by Lifestyles Unlimited. They do not visit each house prior to sending out the email blasts, but use a default estimate for repairs in the evaluation. If the numbers are in line with the teachings of the group, they email blast the property out to the members and the first person to respond that they want the property is the person the agent works with, the second person is informed that they are second in line should the first person decide not to go forward, and same with the third person in line. You have to be quick in responding to the email blasts. I've had some members respond a day or two after the email blast went out, when the first person in line responded in less than 2 minutes. Also, the agents don't visit each property prior to emailing them out because the properties sell quickly. If the agents had to visit each house prior to blasting them out, they would most likely get very few deals through.
After setting the appointment, I always met my clients at the subject property, walked the exterior and interior with them pointing out what I saw as needed repairs and make-ready, and helped them with estimates for repair based on our findings and before any professional inspections were done. My default estimate for repair was always $10,000 and a few times I showed properties that needed very little repair but most properties that looked like they had the appropriate return on capital gain needed more. Then, before we actually wrote the offer, I would re-run the evaluation based on what we estimated for the actual repair amount and make sure the numbers were still in line. FYI, after the first 2 months of estimating I was seldom off on my estimates by $1,000, and the actual repair estimates came in less.
From this point, not only did I write the offers and negotiate on behalf of the member, line up the inspection, but also helped teach the members how to safeguard themselves through the process. Getting the inspection done, written estimates for repair - rerun the numbers, desktop appraisals - rerun the numbers, hard money lenders, refinance into long term loans, all of this can quickly become overwhelming for many people and I was always there for my clients. I not only helped the members obtain the properties, but was there for my clients after the sale to help them make sure they did not over-improve the properties, and keep them in the right mindset.
Now, someone posted that they would take the money Lifestyles charges and put it into a property, after finding some hungry Realtor to work with. Here I can tell you that I brought other agents to the "case study nights" and I always heard the same thing "I don't even know what they're talking about" and "this sounds like way too much work". Most agents do not understand the math, let alone working with a hard money lender who will lend up to 70% of the ARV. Ask most agents how much it will take to make a property "rent ready" and they'll throw a number out at you based on nothing! They simply do not have the property training. Real estate investing is not something they are taught to get their license, so if that's the route you choose to take be prepared to have to teach your agent the math, that the comps on the property need to be for after repaired value, and good luck getting them to understand hard money at all. I've even seen agents hang their license at Lifestyles only to leave before completing their first deal because they could not get their head around the concept of real estate investing, and protecting the client.
Another plus, if you want to call it that, of working with the Lifestyles agents is that they have worked with the vendors on the vendor list and can help point you to the right one for the job. I found plenty of general contractors to work with both on and off the vendor list, but only by actually working with them was I able to assist my client by saying "I would recommend this person, not that one. That one will quote you a price, then it will constantly change upwards until the job is one". I trusted one enough to remodel my own house prior to selling it so I could move to Florida, and he came in exactly on budget (and even did additional work he didn't budget in).
Overall, speaking as a former FFP member and as a former agent for the company, my recommendations are:
1. If you fully plan to invest in multi-family properties within the next two years, but want single family properties now (and be VERY realistic in your time frames, don't figure you will have 10 properties within the next two years, figure you may have five) then join at the PIG level.
2. If you eventually plan to invest in multi-family properties, but want to invest in single family residential properties now, want agents who know how to evaluate a property and help safeguard your interests through the process. Then I recommend the Challenge membership.
3. If you are certain you know how to run the numbers, are good at estimating repair costs to a property, have an agent who understands hard money (and really test them on this prior to letting them write an offer for you), and can build a spreadsheet to evaluate properties, then go with the FFP level.
Feel free to contact me directly if I can answer any questions or clarify anything. I can also offer letters of recommendation (on my performance) from a number of members that I worked with, and I believe many are still members. Each of them has offered their contact information and I am sure they will be more than happy to offer their thoughts.
I hope this helps!
- Landlord · Dallas, TX · Member since 2012 · 505 posts · 34 votes13y
Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
Any LU PIGs want to chime in about the value? I understand that commitment is way more than $500.I have several colleagues that did the $500 option. It seemed the main purpose was to upsell the next tier of training, which I believe was $10,000. If they had questions they were often hesitant to give them answers without pitching the next level of training to them.
With all due respect I think if you just network at your local REIA and read BP religiously that is all you will really need. In fact, we will analyze your deals for you for free here on the forum, you cant beat that!
- Investor · Belton, TX · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 9 votes13y
I am a member I think just their forms for rental properties is worth the 500 membership. Plus you always want to education. I live in Killeen so its a little far for me but I go when I can. Good luck
OUTFLOW=INFLOW
I always have recommended the $500 level but the one thing that I still cannot accept from LU is their idea of cashflow. They always have, and always will I guess, tell people that cashflow is the leftover money after PITI. Its just disingenuous at best. I heard them explain it once on their radio show that appreciation will make up for any extra expenses outside of PITI so that indeed the cashflow is effectively money after PITI. Only problem is, that is a direct contradiction to one of their own rules which is to not speculate since by their own admittance appreciation is speculation. Futhermore, when such things are brought to light you are just passed off as being negative and not of the right mind set. When all is said and done though they all earn a whole lot more than me so they are probably right.
Originally posted by Wade Guy:
I always have recommended the $500 level but the one thing that I still cannot accept from LU is their idea of cashflow. They always have, and always will I guess, tell people that cashflow is the leftover money after PITI. Its just disingenuous at best. I heard them explain it once on their radio show that appreciation will make up for any extra expenses outside of PITI so that indeed the cashflow is effectively money after PITI.
Sorry, but I wouldn't hand ANY money to someone who says that cash flow is rent minus PITI and then says appreciation will make up for any other expenses.
One of the more ridiculous things I've read in a long time...
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