KKOS/ MARK KOHLER or ANDERSON ADVISORS?

Question

I'm fairly well-versed in the areas of asset protection, having been a client of many attorneys and accountants over the years and have my own way of doing business using various entities, but still need assistance and advice as circumstances change over time. I've read many of the reviews, but the majority of them are years old. .

What I've been doing:

For last several years - operating using a combination of LLCs, C-Corps, land trusts.

Control everything, own nothing - keep myself off all public records.

Keeping business income completely separate from any personal income (LLCs are all owned by C-corp).

What I need moving forward:

- Attorney & CPA experienced in R.E. investment

- Virtual (i.e. Skype) or phone consulting

- year end tax minimization strategies for existing entities

- SBA disaster loans (EIDL, PPP) advice specific to my needs

- existing multiple entity review, consulting, cleanup & re-evaluation

- document review

- corporate tax return assistance & filing

What I don't need:

Entity formation (I use my own sources)

Bookkeeping, misc. services

What I've gleaned from initial free consultations:

KKOS/MARK KOHLER:

PROS:

- past reviews seems to be altogether positive

- I would likely be working with one of their partners, not Kohler himself (he charges $600.hr)

- initial consultation fee applied to work

- hourly rate off $350 - no membership programs but they do have specials like the entity cleanup

CONS:

- separate tax/accounting firm from the legal side

- have no idea how many hours I might rack up

- no experience with KKOS to date.

ANDERSON ADVISORS:

- Anderson's Tax Advantage Program: $2995 (in addition to the Platinum membership ($2995)

- tax advisor assesses current business & tax situation

- advance tax planning & prep

- audit protection

- living trust ($2,500)

- Platinum Membership Enrollment Fee Waived + $35 a month

- Business Continuity Program

- Advanced Strategy Analyzer- Structure Implementation Workshop

- Unlimited Attorney Consultations

- Unlimited Questions with Tax Team (Tax Attorney, CPA, etc.)

- Online Retirement Coach

- Risk-Free Wealth Analysis

I had been a tax client of Anderson in prior years, but never signed up for any of their client programs.

PROS:

- I particularly like the fact they combine their legal and tax teams to figure out the right strategy customized to your situation and goals all under one roof - but that comes at a premium.

- no hourly billing

- attorneys licensed in NV where I operate

- Platinum membership provides unlimited consultations, emails from their legal team as opposed to billable hours

- in-house access with a Sr. Advisor to bring it all together

CONS:

- Reputation for upselling more unneeded programs even with Platinum membership

- if their push is in selling entities and structures and more programs, then they are not for me

- need more of an a la carte service where I can use them when I need them, whereas with KKOS or any other attorney/CPA firms, it's billable hours.

Would appreciate any and all input to help navigating toward my decision.

Greg O'Brien · Answer

Interesting thread. One area where I think RE investors (or any business owner) would benefit is with integrated legal, asset protection and tax strategy/accounting team. IMO, there are not enough firms on both the CPA and/or legal side that attempt to integrate these (through strategic partnerships). Our firm went all in with a lawyer to integrate our client strategies and it has made 1) Our clients' lives easier 2) Legal compliance easier 3) Tax strategy bulletproof and consistent. There is no second guessing as all parties are on the same page and we feel our tax strategies are properly documented and some cases, maintained by our legal partner consistently and effectively.

We found for years that a client would come in with sometimes conflicting or inconsistent advice because the lawyers don't focus on tax planning and the CPAs don't focus on asset protection. By combining the two (albeit at a premium usually), your overall planning should have a much higher ROI and you'll know that your asset protection and tax strategy mesh correctly.

Greg O'Brien · Answer

@Susan Wang certainly but depends on billing model and engagement scope. For example, my firm does not bill by returns. If you add 3 entities in a year, that doesn’t mean your pricing changes necessarily. We believe more in longer term relationships vs one off transaction billings by return. However, everyones billing models are different and those are great due diligence questions to ask!

Scott Mac · Answer

Hi Tim,

If I were making this decision, I would have an in person meeting with each firm, at their office (expecting a sales pitch from them).

While there (at a minimum) I would ask for an office tour, and to meet the specific employees who would be handling my business.

Such as Mary X., CPA, and Delila Y., Bookeeper, as well as Partner Z., and backup Partner A., who would take over your account in the event Partner A. dropped over from a massive coronary or similar incident.

I'd try to get an idea of typical response times from those who would be responding to my needs--at different times of the year (Does Y always go on 2 weeks vacation in September, creating a backlog of work that holds up quarterlies--how do they handle maternity leave, etc...).

Things such as above, in addition to specifics of your businesses.

I would also ask them to draw up an apples to apples mock yearly cost for gross services, and discuss audit costs and audit payment plans, as well as where they fall on aggressiveness of tax write offs, from conservative to potentially dodgy, and make sure that fits your risk profile.

Everyone will have different opinions about what is important to them, and in person visits might help clear the muddy waters a bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_9hYMVVv_Q

Good Luck!

Tze Lee · Answer

Following this thread, I'm in a similar situation. Speaking to Royal Legal, Anderson, KKOS, and two referrals this week.

Nice breakdown @Tim Silvers thank you. I'm going to pick 2 out of this list to do a consultation(ok paying - it's worth it). Anderson is complimentary consultation. Royal quoted $149 for initial consultation.. They all sound pretty good, but as an investor it's the balance of cost versus protection which in layman terms still eludes me.

Tim Silvers · Answer

I agree, in person visits are best, however, given the logistics with KKOS for example (they are out of state) and the fact that in person visits are risky given the pandemic, Zoom calls are the next best thing. Like the old school Ed Asner approach, by the way. Thanks for the tips!

Basit Siddiqi · Answer

I worked at medium sized public accounting firms and the big four.

Unless you will be one of the client's top client, much of what you said is unrealistic.

Accounting firms are not known for giving tours of their office to clients. There have to protect all the sensitive information.

You are interviewing the partner and not necessarily the staff below him. It is assumed that your work will be reviewed by the partner you communicate with or a person he/she trusts.
Meeting with other members of the team before signing an engagement letter is likely seen as a waste of time to the firm.
If you become a client, I would have to imagine there is an opportunity to meet with the "team" at a happy hour or lunch event.

If you are asking for different services, maybe you would be interviewing and meeting with two different teams.
I.E. if you are going to an accounting firm for tax and audit services or tax and advisory.

Mike Ko · Answer

@Tze Lee , can you share some updates on this? I'm interested to see where you landed and why. I've been looking at Anderson's. Although they have great contents, they are cost prohibitive. But I do like the 1-stop-shop concept between legal, accounting, and taxes. I'm starting to look into Royal's.

Greg Schuricht · Answer

I've consulted with both Anderson and KKOS. I hired KKOS for a few minor services (LLC setup, property conveyance, and 30 minute consultation). I was very satisfied with the advice I got.

I did two free consultations with Anderson, and both times I left feeling like I was being oversold on something I didn't need. I also felt like they were using fear tactics to get me to sign up for their platinum membership. I never felt like I was being oversold with KKOS.

If you work with either of these companies, you will not get to work with the faces you see on YouTube. Clint Coons and Toby Mathis put out great content, but working with their companies is a different story. With KKOS Mark Kohler is upfront in his content that most clients don't work with him directly. But the individuals I did work with provided great advice and didn't oversell me on something I didn't need.

Mike Ko · Answer

@Tim Silvers, who did you ultimately landed with? And why? Thanks!

KKOS/ MARK KOHLER or ANDERSON ADVISORS?

KKOS/ MARK KOHLER or ANDERSON ADVISORS?

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