Getting screwed by Liberty Mutual insurance after flood

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Getting screwed by Liberty Mutual insurance after flood

Edita D.
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 309 posts · 18 votes

Hey there!

All our policies (personal residence, auto and our rentals) are with Liberty Mutual.

We filed a water damage claim at our residence after the flood in our 2 bedroom 1250 sq ft house 1.5 weeks ago, and it's been awful ever since. Our insurance adjuster is completely unresponsive to direct questions, and considers our residence habitable when it is not. When confronted to make a comment on habitability when I bring up all the items that make the hosue inhabitable, she avoids answering.

I chose Liberty Mutual becuase it was very well rated on A.M. Best and other sites rating insurance companies, NOT because it was the cheapest. I am so frustrated with all the time it's taking me to deal with them chanigng their minds, referring and deferring me, and dealing with their vendors who don't deliver on time. The adjuster lies to us over the phone, but we have no proof of it, so yesterday we asked that all communication be via email.

Did anybody have a similar experience with Liberty Mutual? How do you go about negotiations so that both parties walk away satisfied? 

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Chris MasonPro Member
Moderator
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Dave Rav:
@Edita D.

Contact a public adjuster. They fight the insurance company for you (for a fee of course).

Exactly what I was going to suggest. It's not personal, but the person who works for Liberty Mutual... works for Liberty Mutual. They have a vested interest in writing the smallest check possible.

A public adjuster gets a cut of the action when the insurance carrier writes a check, so they have an incentive to get you the biggest check possible. 

(I'm sure no actual public adjuster would put it as bluntly as that...)

Someone explained it to me this way. You, acting in good faith like a normal reasonable person, tell the insurance company's adjuster you lost a toaster. They, doing only what is required by law, find the cheapest toaster on the entire internet, and send you a check for that much. The one they find toasts one piece of bread and has no adjustment settings. The reviews say the bread that comes out smells funny. You get a $9 check.

A public adjuster working on your behalf documents that you lost a 4 slice toaster with a setting to toast from frozen and a dial to adjust the power and it's self cleaning and it has a usb port and bla bla bla... the adjuster knows all the little things. You get a $45 check. Multiply that by an entire household. And there are entire other regimes of stuff to include on a claim, not just appliance features. 

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  • Lynnette E.
    Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    LM is pretty much known as a low rate insurance company that is extremely difficult when you have a claim.  Even car claims are difficult, something with any judgment needed would be much harder.  

    You likely will not walk away satisfied and they are going to raise your rates on everything.  

    There are companies that ill help you negotiate with insurance companies, but they take a cut off the top, up to 30%.  You do not get extra $ to pay for the company, so in the end you come out the same or worse by hiring the companies.

    You do have the option of using any company you want to fix things.  Their companies favor them and will give them price estimates, but you do not need to hire them.  And they are not the best and won't treat you like a client--you are not--the insurance company is their client.

    If the insurance company adjustor already visited and did their report, get at least 3 written estimates, choose one and get the house fixed.   Then threaten to sue them for the amount.  Remember that courts will give you the lowest estimated amount in many cases, so find a way to disqualify a real low one--eg. not insured or licensed.

    1Reply
  • Charlie MacPherson
    China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Edita D. You might consider hiring a public adjuster.  These folks are on your side and will got to bat for you with the insurance company.

    The LM adjuster is on LMs side and will try to reduce the payout as much as possible - and you're already seeing evidence of that.

    1Reply
  • Edita D.
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 309 posts · 18 votes
    7y

    Thanks for your reply Lynette!

    I did not realize Liberty Mutual is extremely difficult when you have a claim! I looked at their A.M. best ratings, financial strength, etc, and everything looked good. On Consumer Reports they are rated in the middle, not on the bottom. I am glad I asked. Is there a thread here on BP tlaking about what insurance comapnies are easier to deal with if you have a claim to file? Consumer reports lists their top 5: Amica, USAA, Erie, Metlife, Auto-Owners.

    0Reply
  • Jose LinaresPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 82 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    @Edita D. Has Liberty Mutual already extended coverage for the loss?  What are they changing their minds about?  

    Residential insurance policies are fairly standard across all carriers.  They will tailor policies through specific exclusions & endorsements to minimize their exposure on certain losses. The biggest area of variance in the claims process comes down to the adjuster based on their level of experience and the volume of claims they are handling. 

    714-788-0197
    0Reply
  • Dan R.
    Fort Polk, LA · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 47 votes
    7y
    @Edita D. My phone let's me record calls, tell them that you're recording the call for quality assurance and training purposes. I'm not a lawyer, and I know it depends on the state, but informing them they're being recorded should help you down the road.
    0Reply
  • Edita D.
    OP
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 309 posts · 18 votes
    7y

    Thanks @Jose Linares! Yes, they handed us over a check for repair contractor to build the walls and floors back up, however LM did NOT include in their estimate the loss of vanity cabinets in the bathroom, and loss of our California Closets in bedroom.

    They are changing their minds (over the phone) about how long they authorize to pay for accommodations. Initially it was a month, now 2 weeks or until the mold is out. They deem our house HABITABLE once the mold is out. We disagree as our family of 4, with 2 young kids, is confined to a living room and kitchen while the bedrooms are being build back up. Before all the stuff from bedrooms got moved to living and kitchen area, we had 600sq ft (living room and kitchen), and now that entire space is occupied with boxes from bedrooms and closets! There's hardly room to WALK. We only have one double bed and a crib that got moved to the living room (queen mattress and double mattress are gone from the flood). LM is not concerned we do not have enough place on the floor to even buy a mattress and put down; LM is not concerned that those boxes are fall hazards for our small children. That place was not safe for my kids, they were unresponsive so I bought tickets and went to stay with in-laws. They won't consider reimbursing me for air tickets. Sometimes I wonder that because the adjuster is from Texas, maybe they don't have strict safety laws there? I don't understand how careless can LM be towards the safety of the kids! Why on Earth would they want to take the risk of having a child injured and getting a lawsuit?! I know as a multiple property owner, it's NOT worth the risk! If one of my tenants expresses concerns about safety, I carefully look into it to keep everybody safe. LM does not seem to be concerned. And unresponsive to my email about my safety concern.

    0Reply
  • Jose LinaresPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 82 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    I am sorry to hear about your frustration.  Safety & piece of mind is extremely important.  Based on the information you provided, the home is uninhabitable.  The Additional Living Expense coverage should have started from Day 1 of the mitigation through the date that all the repairs have been completed.  Especially, if there is no area to sleep.  

    Are there limit issues on the ALE Coverage?  Some insurance carriers you need to purchase specific limits ($2K, $5K, etc) and others will pay for all reasonable & necessary ALE expenses (above your normal expenses) up to a year.

    The airfare would not be reimbursable. However, they should have paid for an extended stay hotel with kitchenette near your residence during repair process, up to the limits of your ALE coverage.

    Has a field adjuster already inspected the loss and it was transferred to a Texas adjuster?  

    714-788-0197
    0Reply
  • Dave Rav
    Summerville, SC · Member since 2018 · 588 posts · 252 votes
    7y
    @Edita D. Contact a public adjuster. They fight the insurance company for you (for a fee of course). Research Metro PA. See if they are licensed in your state.
    1Reply
  • Grant Rothenburger
    Investor · Taylor Mill, KY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 964 votes
    7y

    @Edita D. Public adjuster may be able to help.

    In the future, for your reference, I have been thrilled with my local Farm Bureau insurance. Not sure if that is an option for you but I love it. Good prices (not the cheapest but not the most expensive) but great coverage on my home and vehicles. Never had an issue getting money from them. This includes a flood in my parents home (before I was old enough to carry my own insurance) but they came out, didn't fight, cut the check and went on. Same experience with car accidents. 

    Hopefully you can find a good local company like this too. Mine is Kentucky Farm Bureau. But I believe Farm Bureau.

    Sorry about the struggle, and I wish you and your family good luck with this!

    0Reply
  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Dave Rav:
    @Edita D.

    Contact a public adjuster. They fight the insurance company for you (for a fee of course).

    Exactly what I was going to suggest. It's not personal, but the person who works for Liberty Mutual... works for Liberty Mutual. They have a vested interest in writing the smallest check possible.

    A public adjuster gets a cut of the action when the insurance carrier writes a check, so they have an incentive to get you the biggest check possible. 

    (I'm sure no actual public adjuster would put it as bluntly as that...)

    Someone explained it to me this way. You, acting in good faith like a normal reasonable person, tell the insurance company's adjuster you lost a toaster. They, doing only what is required by law, find the cheapest toaster on the entire internet, and send you a check for that much. The one they find toasts one piece of bread and has no adjustment settings. The reviews say the bread that comes out smells funny. You get a $9 check.

    A public adjuster working on your behalf documents that you lost a 4 slice toaster with a setting to toast from frozen and a dial to adjust the power and it's self cleaning and it has a usb port and bla bla bla... the adjuster knows all the little things. You get a $45 check. Multiply that by an entire household. And there are entire other regimes of stuff to include on a claim, not just appliance features. 

    3Reply
  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Edita -  I'm a public adjuster in Florida so I can't advise you but I can recommend a good public adjuster in California.  Some of us public adjusters are actually former insurance company adjusters who got disgusted with what we saw in teh business and decided to fight it.  Leland Coontz is his name.  I'll track down his contact info if you'd like it.  Good guy and will fight on your side.

    2Reply
  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Chris Mason:
    Originally posted by @Dave Rav:
    @Edita D.

    Exactly what I was going to suggest. It's not personal, but the person who works for Liberty Mutual... works for Liberty Mutual. They have a vested interest in writing the smallest check possible.

    A public adjuster gets a cut of the action when the insurance carrier writes a check, so they have an incentive to get you the biggest check possible. 

    "(I'm sure no actual public adjuster would put it as bluntly as that...)"

    I will so you don't have to.  :)  

    Florida did a study in 2010 and found that in the claims they surveyed, Public Adjusters got payouts 574% higher on regular claims and 747% higher on hurricane claims.  It's not hard to see the advantage of hiring a PA for 20% of a claim payout to get a total payout that much higher (10% on hurricanes - statutory limitation).   Just last week I reviewed a claim that the insurance carrier adjuster was just flat lazy on and said was $1,800.  I found over $85,000 in damage.  I'm working with an attorney on this one as the carrier did some other things too that an attorney needs to handle so if you do use a PA, make sure it's one who is receptive to the idea of working with a lawyer.  They don't HAVE to work with a lawyer but they should know when it's time to bring one in.

    Caveat - I am a public adjuster and third year law student so obviously my opinion does come with some personal bias.

    Florida study:  http://www.oppaga.state.fl.us/reports/pdf/1006rpt.pdf

    2Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    I had a problem with them on a roof . They wanted to pay for damaged shingles , by the shingle . Tha adjuster told me this when he came out .  I handed him 3 estimates (copies) and told him plain and simple , pick one of the three , subtract the deductible and cut me a check .  I did happen to mention the MD insurance commissioner is in the same hunting club .  Funny how I had a check for the full amount in a week 

    1Reply
  • Michael Norris
    Specialist · Strongsville, OH · Member since 2016 · 303 posts · 217 votes
    7y

    Have you spoken to your agent to get them involved? As an agent myself I'll say upfront that the agent doesn't have any power over the claims department check book >>but advocating for the client is the agent's job in a situation like this. A lot of adjusters are totally overwhelmed with dozens of claims to handle at a time (no excuse) but that being the reality your agent should be able to get some extra attention to your case. Take lots of photos of the current situation which will help justify accessing the loss of use coverage and getting your family into a hotel while the damage is repaired. If you still aren't getting what you need go up the ladder to the claims supervisor. This is where the photos come in handy - adjusters are like cops they have people like to them all day long/ supervisors doubly so. Showing photos of your jacked up living space says way more than all the words you can express on a phone call.

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