Life Insurance for LLC members

Life Insurance for LLC members

Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 2 votes

Hi everyone,

Wasn't sure what category this falls in but financial planning seemed appropriate.

I'm starting a 4 members LLC for CRE purchasing. We are of the mindset of buy, hold, refinance indefinitely. I heard one of the BP podcasts where someone had purchased life insurance on their partner and vice versa. It was a 2 member LLC. This was to make sure that if something unforseen happened to one or the other, the surviving partner will have the means to buyout the shares from the heirs.

I thought this was fairly sound advice. My membership is agreeable to something like this so I have some more questions before following this down the rabbit hole.

1) is there a specific type of insurance one would recommend in this situation? So far, the only one I have come up with is a 20-30 year term life, perhaps for $50-100k death benefit, to purchase for each member. It is likely the most cost effective and gets the job done.

2) what are the tax implications other than payments are not tax deductible as this will be paid by LLC for members, not employees?

3) what are the tax implications IF the policy does take effect? The plan for these benefit payouts would be as buyout funds in case the heir to the disassociated member's shares doesn't want a part of the business or is deemed I'll suited for the position. I suspect the remaining will go to the LLC and distributed to all remaining members as is typical of life insurance policies

We all agree this is not an easy conversation to have. However, I feel it behooves us to make sure our membership and families aren't saddled with a giant "what do we do now" should anything happen down the road.

I like to imagine worst case scenarios where someone may have $50-150k in equity scattered throughout multiple properties and the remaining members would have to buy them out at a time when they may be retired and on fixed incomes.

Thank you for your time.

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Financial Advisor · Boynton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 833 posts · 798 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Vernon Chiu:


1) is there a specific type of insurance one would recommend in this situation? So far, the only one I have come up with is a 20-30 year term life, perhaps for $50-100k death benefit, to purchase for each member. It is likely the most cost effective and gets the job done.

You really shouldn't use Term unless you are absolutely confident that the organization will not outlive the insurance. Permanent life insurance may "seem" expensive, but the bulk of the premium is going to the cash value which represents you saving up your own death benefit over your natural life expectancy. If you dissolve the organization, everyone gets their cash value back.

2) what are the tax implications other than payments are not tax deductible as this will be paid by LLC for members, not employees?

3) what are the tax implications IF the policy does take effect? The plan for these benefit payouts would be as buyout funds in case the heir to the disassociated member's shares doesn't want a part of the business or is deemed I'll suited for the position. I suspect the remaining will go to the LLC and distributed to all remaining members as is typical of life insurance policies

Each member will be signing a buy/sell agreement that obligates each member to buy out the deceased member. The life insurance policy is simply the mechanism for funding the buyout. The agreement should be drafted by an attorney. It will need to address the value of the shares and buyout.

Each member will own the policies they hold on the other members (assuming its a "cross purchase" type). Unless otherwise addressed in the buy-sell agreement, the policy owner controls what happens with any "excess" death benefit. The owner determines the beneficiary of the policy.

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  • Ashish AcharyaBusiness Member
    CPA, CFP®, PFS · FL · Member since 2017 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Vernon Chiu:

    Hi everyone,

    Wasn't sure what category this falls in but financial planning seemed appropriate.

    I'm starting a 4 members LLC for CRE purchasing. We are of the mindset of buy, hold, refinance indefinitely. I heard one of the BP podcasts where someone had purchased life insurance on their partner and vice versa. It was a 2 member LLC. This was to make sure that if something unforseen happened to one or the other, the surviving partner will have the means to buyout the shares from the heirs.

    I thought this was fairly sound advice. My membership is agreeable to something like this so I have some more questions before following this down the rabbit hole.

    1) is there a specific type of insurance one would recommend in this situation? So far, the only one I have come up with is a 20-30 year term life, perhaps for $50-100k death benefit, to purchase for each member. It is likely the most cost effective and gets the job done.

    2) what are the tax implications other than payments are not tax deductible as this will be paid by LLC for members, not employees?

    3) what are the tax implications IF the policy does take effect? The plan for these benefit payouts would be as buyout funds in case the heir to the disassociated member's shares doesn't want a part of the business or is deemed I'll suited for the position. I suspect the remaining will go to the LLC and distributed to all remaining members as is typical of life insurance policies

    We all agree this is not an easy conversation to have. However, I feel it behooves us to make sure our membership and families aren't saddled with a giant "what do we do now" should anything happen down the road.

    I like to imagine worst case scenarios where someone may have $50-150k in equity scattered throughout multiple properties and the remaining members would have to buy them out at a time when they may be retired and on fixed incomes.

    Thank you for your time.

    You are way ahead of other people for thinking about this. This really pays off if something unfortunate happens. There are two types : Cross purchase arrangements and entity purchase arrangements. The cross purchase is not cost effective as members grow in number for any entity. You would have to buy total of 12 polices for 4 members. Entity purchase is reasonable as just 4 policies are required. 

    Yes, insurance cost is not deductible for entity purchase but the proceeds are tax free. 

    This is one major tax difference. In the entity purchase arrangements, when the members dies and entity buys out the member, there is no step up basis for his interest. However, in the cross purchase arrangement, there is a step up basis. Step up is whole another concepts and would recommend talking to professional if you need to decide. 
     

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  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Ashish Acharya

    Thank you for the information. I'll be looking up entity arrangements and see what I can find out. I may speak with my local insurance agent (Allstate) to see if they can help with this. May be able to get discounted rates as I'm already an existing customer.

  • Financial Advisor · Boynton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 833 posts · 798 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Vernon Chiu:


    1) is there a specific type of insurance one would recommend in this situation? So far, the only one I have come up with is a 20-30 year term life, perhaps for $50-100k death benefit, to purchase for each member. It is likely the most cost effective and gets the job done.

    You really shouldn't use Term unless you are absolutely confident that the organization will not outlive the insurance. Permanent life insurance may "seem" expensive, but the bulk of the premium is going to the cash value which represents you saving up your own death benefit over your natural life expectancy. If you dissolve the organization, everyone gets their cash value back.

    2) what are the tax implications other than payments are not tax deductible as this will be paid by LLC for members, not employees?

    3) what are the tax implications IF the policy does take effect? The plan for these benefit payouts would be as buyout funds in case the heir to the disassociated member's shares doesn't want a part of the business or is deemed I'll suited for the position. I suspect the remaining will go to the LLC and distributed to all remaining members as is typical of life insurance policies

    Each member will be signing a buy/sell agreement that obligates each member to buy out the deceased member. The life insurance policy is simply the mechanism for funding the buyout. The agreement should be drafted by an attorney. It will need to address the value of the shares and buyout.

    Each member will own the policies they hold on the other members (assuming its a "cross purchase" type). Unless otherwise addressed in the buy-sell agreement, the policy owner controls what happens with any "excess" death benefit. The owner determines the beneficiary of the policy.

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Thomas Rutkowski

    That was very informative. Thanks Thomas. I have some time still so will be learning the ins/outs of different policies. The entity purchase agreement sounds like it would work based on what I've read so far.

  • Scranton, PA · Member since 2017 · 168 posts · 137 votes
    6y

    @Vernon Chiu these previous two posts gave a lot of value, so I won’t parrot what the others said. A few recommendations:

    1) when you’re looking at this much coverage on different people I would go with an independent broker. They’ll help you navigate the companies that will allow you to get the most coverage for your dollar. This can get dicey especially is someone’s not particularly healthy. A captive agent (they only sell one major company) can have high rates because they don’t have to compete. I work with 25 different companies because they all have different areas of strengths.

    At least get a second opinion. Keep in mind many remote independent agents can write your policies via phone and email, instead of all 4 of you needing to be in the same physical meeting.

    2) I agree with Thomas about buying types of permanent coverage as a cost savings and with the possible Return of Premium feature. You’ll want to sit with an experienced agent that can help you navigate your long-term planning to pick the right product. 

    2) if possible get a policy with Living Benefits (or accelerated death benefits). I recommend a policy that covers terminal, critical, and chronic illness. This policy allows you to accelerate your death benefit before the insured passes if they become sick. It is powerful because of a partner becomes terminally ill, the organization can pull some funds early to start preparing. Same if they’re unable to work due to critical or chronic illness. A few companies will offer this benefit for free. Some charge. 

    3) Make sure everything is in writing! Before someone passes you must have in writing how affairs are handled. 

  • Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Zachary Paschke thanks Zach. Allstate is just a starting point as I am familiar with them and want to learn more about all the options available for our particular LLC. Once we make an acquisition, I plan to go through a broker so I can have a good selection to choose from. At that time, I should have a clear type of insurance in mind to streamline the purchasing/selection process. A bit more foot work up front, less hassle later.

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