Any news from investors on Ashcroft? Open Door? Curious how these REITs are doing
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
Skyline Properties
Any news from investors on Ashcroft? Open Door? Curious how these REITs are doing
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesQuote from @Jason Merchey:
Oh man, I am truly sorry for your loss. I am starting to fear the worst on my end, too.
Boy did my expectations go from high to nigh in five years.
its sad on all ends.. Having lived and worked through the GFC myself and losing 95% of my net worth in 3 years as the RE world melted down.. I am sure those at Ashcroft are devastated as much as the investors. Although my situation was different IE I had guidance lines that got called and the feds were making my banks Mark to Market and forcing me to sell in a market that was cratering.. what did I learn.. starting over we went to cash. accept lower returns and not try to keep up with the jones IE others who juiced returns via max debt
16 Replies
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes6mo
Quote from @JD Martin:
The Syndicated forum has been pretty quiet lately. Curious how some of the investors/investments on Ashcroft & ODC are doing these days. I was reading a few recent reviews that were describing pretty major losses (complete wipeouts) and was hoping to hear from some investors still involved in some of these REITs whether there's been any changes, turnarounds, or improvements or further degradation. MFH is something of a canary, so to speak, and I've recently read some pretty poor WSJ MFH articles.
Yes been very quiet, some chatter recently about grocapitus as well but I am not invested in any of these syndications but it has gotten pretty quiet. I guess when people get their k-1's they may know more.
7e investments53 Reviews- 6moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @JD Martin:
The Syndicated forum has been pretty quiet lately. Curious how some of the investors/investments on Ashcroft & ODC are doing these days. I was reading a few recent reviews that were describing pretty major losses (complete wipeouts) and was hoping to hear from some investors still involved in some of these REITs whether there's been any changes, turnarounds, or improvements or further degradation. MFH is something of a canary, so to speak, and I've recently read some pretty poor WSJ MFH articles.
Yes been very quiet, some chatter recently about grocapitus as well but I am not invested in any of these syndications but it has gotten pretty quiet. I guess when people get their k-1's they may know more.
from what I have seen with Grocapitus it was more than just vanilla MF they had developments stalled and so on and so forth.. to me this C low B class MF that has all these syndicators having issues was a combo of fairly new in the bizz to brand new FOMO and kind of like a mini GFC in that one asset class were the deals were set up so that things had to go perfect for success and it rarely does.. However I am not sure any predicted Bidens economy disaster with interest rates and inflation would strike at lightning speed and affect investors so horribly. Covid was an issue for us in the new construction end with lumber doubling etc. But when you buy an apartment building its fairly basic Debt expenses and occupancy.. when you buy lower end older units with poor debt pretty tough. or low end MHPs that turn into mini Ghettos.
- Investor · Hendersonville, NC · Member since 2013 · 754 posts · 281 votes6mo
I personally had my first-ever conversation with an IR person at Ashcroft. It went pretty well. It helped me to silence that inner voice that was telling me perhaps the keyboard warriors out there were correct--that deals are sinking fast. On the one hand, you see some pretty negative talk out there; on the other, it might be exaggeration (or as some say, simply AI-produced gossip/********).
In the case of my two, I believe there is hope that one can right the ship--or "survive until '26" might be a better way to describe it. I would like to come out the other end feeling that Joe and Frank did right by me (us) and shepherded us to a soft landing. I clearly remember Joe saying back in the day that capital preservation is the #1 goal, so that means to me that I can expect my capital will be preserved! However, I will agree that some good operators are having a very hard time dealing with this period (the one where assets were "purchased for very low cap, perhaps with floating rate debt or a 3-5 year I/O period, with falling rents and a huge influx of supply in most markets"). I ask myself if I could do any better if I were solo/active, so if the answer is "probably not" then I suppose a lot of grace is required when dealing with GPs. There was a time when I kinda wanted to be Joe, but not at this time!
Anyway, even with a capital call or dilution from preferred capital, I can deal--as long as I feel that they are working as hard as they can, as wisely as possible, and that they are not allowing a divergence of interests. By this I mean that Joe once clearly said that he thinks of Ashcroft as having a fiduciary relationship with LPs and their hard-earned money. That kind of responsibility, respect, and honor will take Joe and Frank far...
Here is a pretty inspiring podcast where Joe admits the difficulties MF sponsors are having now. And it's been one additional year so the volume has been turned up, no doubt...
ps I put in a YouTube link and it's not showing up. The title is "Overcoming Challenged in Real Estate with Joe Fairless"
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- Southern California · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 3 votes6mo
My investment in Ashcroft had asked for a capital call last year and I had mentally written off that investment at the time. More recently I received a status update that solidified that the path is likely a total loss.
I'm honestly less angry at Ashcroft and more angry with myself for not having done enough due diligence. Once I learned more about proper due diligence and having found better operators, I realized that the blame is mostly on me. Luckily, the other operators have performed extremely well comparatively with the worst case being a reduced distribution. I'd definitely take that over being wiped out!
While I would love an outcome better than being wiped out, I'm not expecting it.
- Southern California · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 3 votes6mo
Quote from @Jeffrey J.:
My investment in Ashcroft had asked for a capital call last year and I had mentally written off that investment at the time. More recently I received a status update that solidified that the path is likely a total loss.
I'm honestly less angry at Ashcroft and more angry with myself for not having done enough due diligence. Once I learned more about proper due diligence and having found better operators, I realized that the blame is mostly on me. Luckily, the other operators have performed extremely well comparatively with the worst case being a reduced distribution. I'd definitely take that over being wiped out!
While I would love an outcome better than being wiped out, I'm not expecting it.
Just to provide an update to my earlier post, but it is confirmed that it ended up being a total loss on my investment.
- Investor · Hendersonville, NC · Member since 2013 · 754 posts · 281 votes6mo
Jeffrey, I am sorry for your (expected) loss. There are hard lessons to be learned when syndications fail (I started a thread about 4-5 years ago on this topic and the response was enlightening) (though I guess not enlightening enough because I have a lot of money tied up in under-performing, non-paying investments at this time).
- 6moDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesREITs are a specific category of corporation electing to be taxed as a REIT, IF they meet certain requirements
Quote from @JD Martin:
The Syndicated forum has been pretty quiet lately. Curious how some of the investors/investments on Ashcroft & ODC are doing these days. I was reading a few recent reviews that were describing pretty major losses (complete wipeouts) and was hoping to hear from some investors still involved in some of these REITs whether there's been any changes, turnarounds, or improvements or further degradation. MFH is something of a canary, so to speak, and I've recently read some pretty poor WSJ MFH articles.
“To qualify as a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) in the U.S., an entity must be structured as a taxable corporation or trust, managed by directors, and have at least 100 shareholders (after year one). Key requirements include investing ≥75% of total assets in real estate/cash, deriving 75% of gross income from property rents or mortgage interest, and distributing 90% of taxable income as dividends”Just a “technical” clarification; the investments you reference are NOT REITs, they are in all likelihood structured as manager managed limited liability companies with the investors as NON MANAGING members and the organizer as manager or managing member; or less likely organized as limited partnerships, with the organizer as general partner and the outside investors limited partners.
- Investor · Hendersonville, NC · Member since 2013 · 754 posts · 281 votes6mo
Oh man, I am truly sorry for your loss. I am starting to fear the worst on my end, too.
Boy did my expectations go from high to nigh in five years.
- 6moJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Jason Merchey:
Oh man, I am truly sorry for your loss. I am starting to fear the worst on my end, too.
Boy did my expectations go from high to nigh in five years.
its sad on all ends.. Having lived and worked through the GFC myself and losing 95% of my net worth in 3 years as the RE world melted down.. I am sure those at Ashcroft are devastated as much as the investors. Although my situation was different IE I had guidance lines that got called and the feds were making my banks Mark to Market and forcing me to sell in a market that was cratering.. what did I learn.. starting over we went to cash. accept lower returns and not try to keep up with the jones IE others who juiced returns via max debt
- CA · Member since 2013 · 64 posts · 58 votes4mo
I'm not affiliated with this site, but the website InvestClearly has done a great job of getting feedback from verified investors in real estate syndications. I've shared both positive feedback on the stronger syndications (i.e. Praxis) I've invested with and negative feedback on the weak syndications (i.e Ashcroft) I've invested with. The site is consistently getting more and more reviews, so you can see current feedback on Ashcroft and ODC there. The feedback continues to be quite negative for both ODC and Ashcroft.
- Investor · Hendersonville, NC · Member since 2013 · 754 posts · 281 votes3mo
Quote from @Ben D.:
I'm not affiliated with this site, but the website InvestClearly has done a great job of getting feedback from verified investors in real estate syndications. I've shared both positive feedback on the stronger syndications (i.e. Praxis) I've invested with and negative feedback on the weak syndications (i.e Ashcroft) I've invested with. The site is consistently getting more and more reviews, so you can see current feedback on Ashcroft and ODC there. The feedback continues to be quite negative for both ODC and Ashcroft.
Yes, I have learned of them and have put some reviews up myself. Thanks for that tip.
- San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 37 posts · 15 votes4mo
I encourage you to post your reviews online, all social media, Amazon, You tube, Better Business Bureau etc etc, anything related to this company (Ashcroft) and to his name. So people will get a chance to know other people's experiences with this company !!!
- San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 37 posts · 15 votes4mo
I hate myself for choosing this company, Ashcroft. I lost a lot too. This is hard earned money! Pls review them online!
- Investor · Hendersonville, NC · Member since 2013 · 754 posts · 281 votes3mo
Quote from @Salome D.:
I hate myself for choosing this company, Ashcroft. I lost a lot too. This is hard earned money! Pls review them online!
I'm sorry that happened! But did you know about MG Properties? RIght in San DIego, Sorrento Valley I believe. You're lucky in that you can actually have a sit-down with them if you wish.
They are BIG. And they are not without some negative talk about them online.
But in speaking with Jeff the chief investment officer, I pretty much did come to believe that when you are that big, you attract a lot of ambulance-chasing lawyers, disgruntled tenants, and so on. Plus I think the RealPage scandal is pretty much something most decent landlords could have accidentally fallen into, so I can't fault most sponsors for getting involved with that company.
But, overall I'm pretty happy with the sizeable investment I have continually made with them since 2020. By that I mean that they don't do funds, they do single-asset or sometimes two-asset syndications. In great markets.
Some call them "best in class" in that "not-huge-MF-owner" category. In that big category you've got ones like Bridge Investment Group, Bell Partners, REITS, and so on. In fact, one sponsor I got in touch with has a $1m minimum. But I believe MG is in the $100k minimum category.
Anyway, I doubt you'd be disappointed with their quality, track record, and their character. Like I said, search on them and you'll find some "stuff" out there, but nothing like what you find if you search on some of those "show horses" who rode the rising tide in 2018-2021 and clearly got themselves into trouble. Plus, Jeff will talk with you frankly about anything you find online which is refreshing considering they already have like 2,000 investors to manage.
FWIW in regard to Ashcroft, I know that Praxis is not happy with their current fund in regard to what the post-COVID environment did to their NOI and expected IRR, but I still look upon them favorably--and think they can eke out a single-digit IRR. And that is a lot better than capital calls and capital losses and such.
- Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 11 posts · 13 votes3d
Has anyone had trouble reaching Ashcroft? I'm an investor in AVAF2 and I can't get ahold of anyone at their company. I would like to talk to their Investor Relations rep. I have called and emailed every day over the last week and no one has responded. It's like a ghost company where there are no employees.
- Investor · Cary, NC · Member since 2012 · 214 posts · 194 votes1d
I just want to reiterate what @Don Konipol pointed out here, that these operators being discussed ARE NOT REITs. They have Real estate in common but syndications (both single asset & funds) have a very different legal and operational structure.
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