I know this has probably been asked a million times, but are any of the gurus actually worth it? I get the impression that the $100 course is always a sales pitch for the $1,000 course, which is a pitch for the $10,000 course and so on...
A couple friends of mine are interested in signing up with a guy named Jeff Kaller but I haven't seen any positive reputable reviews (i.e. someone with more than 1 post).
Are we better off by ourselves trying to network with people at the local REIA? Also, we're in the Philadelphia area so if anyone knows anything about the Philadelphia REIA or a better alternative it'd be greatly appreciated :mrgreen:
Our RE knowledge is pretty limited so far, just a couple of college kids trying to get into the business. I worked at my dad's law firm briefly (they do strictly foreclosure work for the whole mid-atlantic region) but never learned much about the process... I was just putting together title policies (not actually clearing title or anything useful :cry: ).
I am definitley not one of the more expirenced investor on this board, but I say you are exactly right...save your money and start attending REIA meetings, networking, and find a mentor. For the money you might spend on a guru you can learn the same strategies and more, and use that money to put towards your first deal.
Some will say that yes, gurus are a great education tool, and you should invest in your own education. While I agree that investing in your education is important, I think gurus are the worst possible way to do so.
I hope my response helps, although it is just one new investors opinion. Good luck to you and your friends, whichever route you choose.
If you haven't already done so, you should start by reading a number of basic real estate books. You may also wish to check E-Bay for used guru courses that people are selling. Something like a Carlton Sheets course will cover a lot of the basics. Join your REIA and network. Determine which aspect of real estate investing you want to pursue and find others who are doing just that. Invite these people to lunch or coffee and pick their brain. Many experienced investors are happy to share their knowledge with those who show a true willingness to learn. Don't ever fall for the promise of some "secret" that a guru will share with you in exchange for your credit card. There are some good teachers and mentors out there, but the sad truth is that the real estate world is full of predators.
You'll probably find that you can learn more by participating here than you ever will at some boot camp.
It just happens to be the case that the January 2010 presenter is a local (out of Bucks County) short sales specialist, so you might want to attend that meeting before signing up with anybody else on short sales.
Thanks for all the quick responses, you probably saved me a few grand and a lot of wasted time / effort. Any particular books you guys would recommend? I don't know exactly which type of transaction would be best for me but I get the impression tax sales, flipping, or commercial real estate aren't exactly for newbies on a limited budget... I was thinking maybe short sales would be one way to start? So far the only books I have are a few of Kiyosaki's and one called Investing in Real Esate (Gary Eldred).
Also, any ideas as to how my father's law firm could give us a competitive edge or at least something to bring to the table for networking? They do foreclosure work for all the major lenders in the mid-atlantic region and don't mind providing me with any / all info they can give from their files.
Steve:
DIG looks like a great option and their main meeting place is only 40 min from where I live, but what do the different membership levels mean? As far as I can tell there isn't an explanation on their web site. I'm guessing I'd probably just want a Primary Membership to start out?
Ryan,
Tell us your financial goals, where you live, what you have to start with, and what your current situation is. Between all of us, we can mentor you right here for free into getting started properly.
Haha ok, I hate making long posts but here goes...
I'm in the Philadelphia area and I'd like to make a career out of real estate investing (studying finance at Penn State currently). One of my father's friends was in commercial real estate acquisition/analysis working for Texaco and I always thought his job sounded great... unfortunately that friend passed before I ever decided I actually wanted to do something with real estate. The thought of working for some sort of real estate brokerage firm also crossed my mind recently but I don't know enough about that to say it's what I'd like to do with my life.
My financial situation is nothing special... about $15,000 in the bank to work with and probably decent credit but I haven't checked my credit score yet. I've never paid a credit card late (had one since I was 17, I'm 23 now) and I took out a small student loan that I've been paying off to hopefully establish more of a record.
My dad is one of the founding partners at a foreclosure firm that does work throughout the entire mid-atlantic region and I'm hoping that will be of some use. He and his partners are very encouraging and have always said they'll help out however they can, but I'm still not quite sure what area of REI is best for me so I'm not sure how to take advantage of that. I worked at their firm for a while so I'm familiar enough with their system that I can find whatever someone needs in a particular file, but I didn't quite learn the foreclosure process or title policies as well as I wanted to before returning to school.
I buy properties at sheriff sales in PA, so I guess that your father is affiliated with some firm that handles that sort of thing. I'm pretty sure I can think of some ways that some of that info could be used.
There is one free meeting for your first one that you attend. Beyond that you would need membership of some sort. There is a 3 month membership that I consider to be more of a "trial". Then there is primary, for one person for one 12 month term. Then there can be a secondary member attached to a primary, so the fee for this is in addition to the primary. I suggest you go to your first one for free, and then ask the people at the door about the other levels and costs.
If I remember right their firm usually has someone at the sheriff's sales bidding on behalf of the bank, not sure if that's the sort of thing you're referring to though...
Would that meeting you mentioned in January with the short sale specialist be a possibility for the freebie? :cool:
Well, that's only one of the myriad activities that are performed by the foreclosure attorneys; the bidding is typically done according to instructions from the lender. But last month I was out-bid on a house by an attorney who was not the foreclosing attorney for that house's lender (and there were no other liens where there was a need to bid to protect the collateral for those junior liens); the attorney was buying an investment. Again, there are a number of ways to potentially use the info you can get a hold of ...
Whenever you choose to go for your first time, that one is free. I can send a guest pass by US postal mail if you think you need one, PM if you want one ...
I do have to add one thing. The REIA will have monthly speakers who typically will be selling their wares at the end of the meeting; purchasing anything at the meeting is strictly optional.
Ok, looking at this - what attracted you to real estate appears to be a professional career path. Are you sure you want to be a real estate investor or a real estate professional? There is a difference and I do both. As a real estate investor I am an active landlord. As a part time / contract insurance adjuster, I'm a consultant when there is damage to a building. Being a professional pays great cash and has great perks like lunch at Wildfire yesterday courtesy of a client, but no equity. Being an investor pays little cash for a long time (flipping is a profession, you're a salesman not an investor - I did that too) and you don't get any corporate perks - but it builds up your equity and frees up your time.
In all honesty looking at your situation, you're getting a good degree and you were inspired into this from a corporate professional. You don't want to buy too much locally so that you are faced with a dilemma if you get the professional offer you want out of town.
Having, like you, a dad with success in real estate and being 10 years older than you now and having experienced what I have....I'd focus on getting the degree and call dad and see if I could work for him. The education, contacts and flat out honesty dad will give you will be much better to you in the long run. Dads don't have to be politically correct and can tell you when you suck at something. The quicker you know what's holding you back the better.
While you are in college I don't think it would be at all wrong to do a deal here or there to put on the resume - but not too many so that it distracts you from your real mission at hand. I don't know about Philadelphia....seems like a rough town. Do you have your own transportation and can go to a smaller town maybe 30 minutes to an hour outside of Philly? Look for a little single family there you can pick up for under 10 grand in a halfway decent neighborhood. Bribe your college buddies with beer to help you repaint it. Clean the carpets. Tenant the property. Immediately find a realtor who deals with a lot of out of town landlords. List it with that realtor for 20-30k, whatever it takes to move the property FAST and sell it as a turnkey package. Even if you make just 5k on the deal, do it. What you're after is not your retirement here but little base hits to keep you going and look good on your resume when you hit the professional world. Besides, if you can hit the numbers I'm talking about you're talking about a near 30% ROI. That looks pretty darned impressive if you're applying for a corporate position in real estate acquisitions and analysis. Go for it. Keep it very simple because you have a lot on your plate now with the degree, but simple can be profitable.
By the way, if you become a highly paid real estate professional for a decade or so...you could be the guy buying turnkey rental property from a college kid and using that to build your investment portfolio while you experience no drop in your lifestyle from a decent corporate gig as long as you're disciplined with your money.
I've been trying to find the date for the guest speaker you mentioned on their calendar but haven't had any luck. Is it listed on there anywhere?
You make a lot of excellent points haha, I definitely don't want to get tied up in this area and stuck when a good job offer comes up... I had no idea you can find nearly livable properties for only $10k these days. I always figured anything in that price range would require a lot of construction knowledge to rehab (I have zero construction skills, although I have painted a couple houses). I would love to have a project like that to work on, especially since the alternative while I'm in school would probably be another part-time job at Best Buy or something :roll:
I actually live about 30 minutes outside philly, I just always list the city as my location because no one has heard of Glen Mills, Pennsylvania :wink: I'll have to ask around and see if anyone knows any decent neighborhoods with properties in that price range around here.
Are there usually any extra inspections or permits needed for that type of deal? I just worry about ending up with something that needs work beyond my skill level (i.e. anything more than painting, cleaning and yardwork), at which point I'd have to hire a professional and probably end up only losing money...
Ryan,
Sounds like you have some valuable resources available to you. The first being your location. Contrary to what Tim said, in my opinion, Philadelphia is one of the best places to invest. Your fathers firm is definetly another great resource. Not only should you learn as much as you can about the forclosure process and how his firm is involved, but more importantly, you should see if they can help you get some great deals. Im guessing there is a good chance they can use their connection with the lenders to cut a deal for you before it ever reaches the sheriffs sale. Look into it! Another resource you should look into is at Penn State. I majored in Business Administration at PSU and minored in real estate. Ken Lusht was the head of the RE department and taught some great classes on REI. There was also a financial real estate class which I actually tudored when i was there. It also had some great information that you will surely apply in this field. If those classes are available, I suggest adding one or two each semester especially since it doesnt cost anything extra to add the extra credits. I also suggest that you pick up a few books about Real Estate Investing Fundamentals to help you understand the different aspects of a real estate investment. The info you will get out of those classes and books is far more valuable than anything you will learn from any guru asking for money or REI club. The REI clubs however are a great resource for you as well, but the main purpose in my opinion is to network with other people involved with real estate in your area just like you are doing now!
What a great kid, with a head on your shoulders!!! My kids grew up in real estate and it would be a dream come true if just one of the three would just attempt to step into my shoes, bu noooo they would rather struggle!!! Count my blessings, at least daughter will be CPA, but 19 and 17 just want the car keys, not willing to pay their dues with BPOs etc, where did I go wrong, LOL. You give me HOPE! Great advice here... over 30 years investing and this site takes the cake! -- Dawn
Please, please, please, please, get a used college level Real Estate 101/102 level text book off ebay and a used business law book. Read all of the real estate text and then look to contracts and financial instruments in the basic B.Law text. After that, read your guru books if you must.
You will not learn squat about what I call the reality of realty from any guru book, what you will get are marketing ideas and learn some tricks, but some "programs" bridge on pure fraud! But if you hadn't read the RE and B Law texts, you would never know the difference! Gurus sell tapes, books, CDs, etc, that is their business.
Bill
I agree with Bill. Shadow someone that is doing it. Why my kids won't is beyond me, except that as with many a family, the 2nd generation just wants the purse and not the hard work that won it?! -- Dawn
Well Dawn, now you know that they are much smarter than you are and after all, they are entitled to all that you have since, well, their being here is your fault!
Bill,
I just saw in your profile that you've been doing Real Estate in Springfield, Missouri for quite some time. You may know my dad Phil Wieneke, Aaron Properties. I'm an Evangel grad and cut my teeth in real estate in Springfield. It's a good town to learn the basics and weeds out guru bs pretty quick.
