Your Advice on 2 Potential Deals

Your Advice on 2 Potential Deals

Dallas, TX · Member since 2010 · 22 posts · 1 vote

I have a couple of Owner Finance deals that I'm considering and would like your opinion.

Deal 1:
It was fully rehabbed approximately 12 months ago. The OF note balance is $80,775 paying $815/month with 1 year seasoning. The underlying bank debt is $62k - pmt is $598.97 @ 6.5% int rate with 145 months left. I would have to pay $10k down. The cash flow over and above the bank payment is $50 cash flow after taking out taxes and insurance. This would be a 6% return on your down pmt. Its not the best deal but the house is in good shape and brick which makes my husband more comfortable in case the buyer backs out. He thinks we would have an easier time finding another buyer candidate.

Deal 2:
This is a 3 bedroom Frame home on a large lot. The client has been in the house for 3 years. Their note ist $76,500 9.75% /670.01 per month PI. They also pay taxes and insurance. The underlying note balance is $34,000 at 7.5% $544.62/mo. It only has about 6.5 yrs left for full payoff. I can buy its with 10k down. My initial cash on cash return would be 15% for 6.5 years. Once the property is paid off your return would go to 65% per year. The primary issue is that the seller cannot guarantee how long the current lender will continue to renew the loan. It is currently on a year to year basis at this time. The bank will not refinance me as they are out of the Texas marketplace. I would either have to refinance it at another bank or buy it outright. In 1 year, my loan balance at the bank would be in the low 30’s at that time. Another problem with this deal is that it is a teeny tiny A frame house. My husband is worried that if we buyer defaults, we would have a hard time finding another buyer. So there you have it - 2 deals. What is your opinion?

Thanks, in advance!

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    Definitely a NO on deal one.

    Deal two looks okay but not the promising either.

    All depends on how much money you have to invest for a portfolio.

    If you just have 10k to put down I would go after other deals with more upside.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2010 · 22 posts · 1 vote
    14y

    Thanks, Joel. In your opinion, what's the least cash on cash you would consider?

  • Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes
    14y

    15% is generally the defacto standard around here for a minimum... some set the bar as high as 20% but those tend to be the investors who do a lot more advertising to find desperate sellers.

    Generally it depends on your personal goals as an investor. Some are quite content with a nice safe 6 - 8% and purchase in all cash.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    14y

    What exactly are you buying? These properties appear to have loans with some bank and have been sold to a buyer using a wrap. You can't buy the properties, those have been sold to the end buyers. I don't see any indication the original lenders are wanting to sell their notes. Are you buying these wrap notes?

    But it doesn't really make sense to talk about a down payment when buying a note. So, I'm confused. That's a bad thing. This deal is convoluted. I don't like convoluted deals.

  • Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2009 · 168 posts · 40 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
    What exactly are you buying? These properties appear to have loans with some bank and have been sold to a buyer using a wrap. You can't buy the properties, those have been sold to the end buyers. I don't see any indication the original lenders are wanting to sell their notes. Are you buying these wrap notes?

    But it doesn't really make sense to talk about a down payment when buying a note. So, I'm confused. That's a bad thing. This deal is convoluted. I don't like convoluted deals.

    Thanks for bringing this up in this thread Jon, as I am confused about whats going on also...

  • Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes
    14y

    Whew, I figured I was just having a blonde moment while reading this thread!

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2010 · 22 posts · 1 vote
    14y

    No worries - you are not having blonde moments. Sorry I didn't explain in detail on my OP. These are deals where I would be buying a current wrapped loan in either scenario. Even though they do sound very convoluted and somewhat dangerous, these are both currently owned by a local real estate investor and lawyer who is very reputable.

    I value your opinions, so I wanted to hear your feedback since I haven't done such a deal before. I'm not in love with either deal at this point, but I'm eager to get into something with cash flow and equity. I was thinking something at least 15% cash on cash return, so #1 doesn't meet this criteria for sure.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    I think you need to look for more VANILLA deals as some old time investors tell me.

    The more complicated it gets the more a link out of the chain can come apart and the deal is busted either when you purchase or in many cases after you purchase.

    I like CONTROL in a deal which is why I would pass on these.

    Just my opinion of course.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    14y

    I don't see how you buy a note with a down payment. I think you mean, for the first deal, you are paying $10K for the $81K wrap mortgage and assuming responsibility for the underlying $62K mortgage. You say you're getting a new of $50 a month, $600 a year, on a $10K investment. That is indeed a 6% return. I think the buyer has a 15 year note, with 14 years, 168 payments, left. So, assuming this goes through until the end, you would get (168-145= 23) full payments at the tail end, which improves your yeild a bit. Not too much, though, because they're so far in the future.

    A more likely scenario is the buyer refinances at some point and pays you off, which enables you to pay off the underlying loan, and you pocket the difference. I don't quite understand the details of the loans well enough to do the math, but you should be able to compute what you would net.

    However, there are risks on both ends. If the buyer defaults, you have to either get them to do a deed in lieu of foreclosure and give you the house or you will have to foreclose to get possession. A foreclosure procedure would almost certainly require notification of the underlying lender, and they may choose to start their own foreclosure, even if you're making the payments to them. That's because these deals violate the due-on-sale clause, which gives the lender the right (but not the obligation) to call the loan.

    I don't like these deals, even if the numbers were better. You're dealing in notes (paper, or "cash flow" these deals are sometimes called.) These are, IMHO, messy deals. Too much risk for my liking.

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