Mold Problems
Banker · Member since 2010 · 1 post · 0 votes
I recently discovered mold in one of the rooms in my house had come back, and it's worse than before. I have been doing more research into DIY mold removal, and most people advise using a bleach and water solution. I had tried that last time, and I think it just ended up spreading the mold. Any ideas about what to do? I'm more hesistant this time to make it a DIY project, though I would love to save the money.
Thanks!
Try some of these threads:
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/84/topics/45246-mold-question
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/88/topics/41433-mold-
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/31237-mold-and-rehabbing-simple-or-complex-
If you insist on a DIY effort, then get the proper chemicals; believe it or not, the local big box hardware stores have a number of these in stock, and by reading the labels you can figure out which one might be the best fir for your situation. You will need to solve the problem of water infiltration first - if you have water finding a way in, you will have re-growth in the future. You may be better off removing sections of wall and / or ceiling that have been contaminated. Applying a sealant product to any framing members (joists and studs) after the chemical treatment will probably also be a good idea to follow.
Try some of these threads:
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/84/topics/45246-mold-question
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/88/topics/41433-mold-
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/31237-mold-and-rehabbing-simple-or-complex-
If you insist on a DIY effort, then get the proper chemicals; believe it or not, the local big box hardware stores have a number of these in stock, and by reading the labels you can figure out which one might be the best fir for your situation. You will need to solve the problem of water infiltration first - if you have water finding a way in, you will have re-growth in the future. You may be better off removing sections of wall and / or ceiling that have been contaminated. Applying a sealant product to any framing members (joists and studs) after the chemical treatment will probably also be a good idea to follow.
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WARNING:
DO NOT USE CHLORINE BLEACH TO CLEAN UP OR KILL MOLD
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WARNING !!!
Do NOT use Chlorine bleach to kill mold or disinfect moldy areas. It is not an effective or long lasting killer of mold and mold spores. Bleach is good only for changing the color of the mold and watering the roots of the mold.
CHLORINE BLEACH IS INEFFECTIVE IN KILLING MOLD FOR THESE REASONS:
(1) The object to killing mold is to kill its “rootsâ€. Mold remediation involves the need to disinfect wood and wood-based building materials, all of which are porous materials. Thus, chlorine bleach should not be used in mold remediation as confirmed by OSHA’s Mold Remediation/ Clean Up Methods guidelines. The use of bleach as a mold disinfectant is best left to kitchen and bathroom countertops, tubs and shower glass, etc.
(2) Chlorine Bleach does kill bacteria and viruses, but has not been proven effective in killing molds on non-porous surfaces. Bleach itself is 99% water. Water is one of the main contributors of the growth of harmful bacteria and mold. Current situations using bleach re-grew and regenerated mold and bacteria twice the CFU counts than were originally found before bleaching, within a short period of time. Bleach is an old method used for some bacteria and mold. It is the only product people have known for years. The strains now associated within Indoor Air quality issues are resistant to the methods our grandmothers employed to clean-up mold..
(3) What potential mold 'killing' power chlorine bleach might have, is diminished significantly as the bleach sits in warehouses, on grocery store shelves or inside your home or business 50% loss in killing power in just the first 90 days inside a never opened jug or container. Chlorine constantly escapes through the plastic walls of its containers.
(4) The ionic structure of bleach prevents Chlorine from penetrating into porous materials such as drywall and wood---it just stays on the outside surface, whereas mold has enzyme roots growing inside the porous construction materials---however, the water content penetrates and actually FEEDS the mold---this is why a few days later you will notice darker, more concentrated mold growing (faster) on the bleached area.
(5) Chlorine Bleach accelerates the deterioration of materials and wears down the fibers of porous materials.
(6) Chlorine Bleach is NOT registered with the EPA as a disinfectant to kill mold. You can verify this important fact for yourself when you are unable to find an EPA registration number for killing mold on the label of any brand of chlorine bleach.
(7) Chlorine bleach off gases for a period of time. Chlorine off gassing can be harmful to humans and animals. It has been known to cause pulmonary embolisms in low resistant, and susceptible people.
(8) Chlorine bleach will evaporate within a short period of time. If the area is not dry when the bleach evaporates, or moisture is still in the contaminated area (humidity, outside air dampness), you could re- start the contamination process immediately and to a greater degree.
(9) Chlorine is a key component of DIOXIN. One of the earliest findings of dioxin's toxicity in animals was that it caused birth defects in mice at very low levels. This finding led to dioxin being characterized as "one of the most potent teratogenic environmental agents". The first evidence that dioxin causes cancer came from several animal studies completed in the late 1970's. The most important of these, published in 1978 by a team of scientists from Dow Chemical Company, led by Richard Kociba, found liver cancer in rats exposed to very low levels of dioxin. This study helped establish dioxin as one of the most potent animal carcinogens ever tested and, together with the finding of birth defects in mice, led to the general statement that dioxin is the "most toxic synthetic chemical known to man." (Find more information on DIOXIN, by clicking HERE & HERE)
If Not Bleach, What Can I use?
Chlorine Bleach and Mold Clean Up (Let's Set the Record Straight!)
(reprinted with permission from our friends at Spore°Tech Mold Investigations, LLC)
The Myth.
A myth exists concerning the use and “effectiveness†of chlorine bleach (sodium hypochorite) in the remediation of a mold problem. Mold remediation involves the removal and or clean up and restoration of mold contaminated building materials.
Opposing Views and Confusion.
Chlorine bleach, commonly referred to as laundry bleach, is generally perceived to be an “accepted and answer-all†biocide to abate mold in the remediation processes. Well-intentioned recommendations of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and other federal, state and local agencies are perpetuating that belief. And confusing the issue is one federal agency, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA), taking an opposing point of view by NOT recommending the use of chlorine bleach as a routine practice in mold remediation.
Does Bleach Really Kill Mold?
Will chlorine bleach kill mold or notâ€"yes or no? The answer is yes, but with a caveat. That answer comes from The Clorox Company, Oakland CA, manufacturer and distributor of Ultra Clorox® Regular Bleach. The company’s correspondence to Spore°Tech Mold Investigations, LLC stated that their Tech Center studies supported by independent laboratories show that “…3/4 cup of Clorox liquid bleach per gallon of water will be effective on hard, non-porous surfaces against… Aspergillus niger and Trichophyton mentagrophytes (Athlete’s Foot Fungus)â€. Whether or not chlorine bleach kills other molds and fungi, the company did not say. The words “hard, non-porous†surfaces†present the caveat. Mold remediation involves the need to disinfect wood and wood-based building materials, all of which are porous materials. Thus, chlorine bleach should not be used in mold remediation as confirmed by OSHA’s Mold Remediation/ Clean Up Methods guidelines. The use of bleach as a mold disinfectant is best left to kitchen and bathroom countertops, tubs and shower glass, etc.
Why Chlorine Bleach is NOT Recommended for Mold Remediation.
Chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is corrosive and that fact is stated on the product label. Yet the properties of chlorine bleach prevent it from “soaking into†wood-based building materials to get at the deeply embedded mycilia (roots) of mold. The object to killing mold is to kill its “rootsâ€. Reputable mold remediation contractors use appropriate products that effectively disinfect salvageable mold infected wood products. Beware of any mold inspector or mold remediation company that recommends or uses chlorine bleach for mold clean up on wood-based building materials.
Chlorine Bleach Is Active Ingredient in New Mold & Mildew Products.
The appearance of new mold and mildew household products on store shelves is on the rise. Most are dilute solutions of laundry bleach. The labels on these mold and mildew products state that they are for use on (again) hard, non-porous surfaces and not for wood-based materials. Instructions where not to apply the products are varied. A few examples where the branded products should not be applied include wood or painted surfaces, aluminum products, metal (including stainless steel), faucets, marble, natural stone, and, of course, carpeting, fabrics and paper. One commercial mold and mildew stain remover even specifically states it should not be applied to porcelain or metal without immediate rinsing with water and that the product isn’t recommended for use on formica or vinyl.
Caveat Emptor!
Before purchasing a mold and mildew product, read and fully understand the advertised purpose of that product — and correctly follow the use instructions of a purchased product. The labeling claims on these new products can be confusing — some say their product is a mold and mildew remover while another says their product is a mildew stain remover and yet others make similar 'ambiguous' claims. Make double sure that the product satisfies your intended need on the surface to which it is to be applied. If your intention is to kill mold, make sure the product does exactly that and follow the directions for usage. Consumers may find that mixing their own diluted bleach solution will achieve the same results as any of the new mold and mildew products — keep in mind that the use of chlorine bleach is not for use on mold infected wood products including wall board, ceiling tiles, wall studs, fabric, paper products, etc.
Conclusion.
Laundry bleach is not an effective mold killing agent for wood-based building materials and NOT EFFECTIVE in the mold remediation process. OSHA is the first federal agency to announce a departure from the use of chlorine bleach in mold remediation. In time, other federal agencies are expected to follow OSHA’s lead. The public should be aware, however, that a chlorine bleach solution IS an effective sanitizing product that kills mold on hard surfaces and neutralizes indoor mold allergens that trigger allergies.
Using bleach can cause serious health problems.
The fumes are very caustic and great care must be taken not to breath it in too much.
It is also very damaging to clothing and carpeting, the human body, and the environment.
THE MOST EFFECTIVE METHOD TO GET RID OF VISIBLE MOLD IS BY REMOVING THE AFFECTED AREA.
NOTE ::: MoldAcrossAmerica does not recommend the use of ozone to address mold or any other indoor air problems
res some info on mold and bleach
I can only relate what happened to me first hand.
I had a bathroom that was pretty black with mold inside. The tub faucets were broke and caused excess moisture and steam from this constant flow of hot water.
"I thought" I could sneak in there ,remove faucets and sneak out by not disturbing mold.
WRONGO,,I got sick as a dog in there in 15 minutes removing faucet. lasted 2 weeks of feeling like pure h-e= two sticks.
I found my respirator mask and then sprayed bleach and water and mold 'seemed ' to disappear quickly.
I jerked ALL the drywall off the walls and vacuumed up with a heppa filter vac.
I had a mold company inspect it first and they said the mold was inside the walls also,,thats why I jerked drywall.
Anyway to make this long story short,,,I can NOW enter without a mask,stay as long as I want in there and no sickness repeat of which I find myself deathly allergic to mold.
So IF I am the human guinea pig,,I guess it passes the mold test now. That was about 6 months ago and for reasons beside this convo,,I havent reinstalled the walls yet, but will after I spray the box store mold stuff on the studs. and back side of adjoining wall which had NO signs of mold when I tore this bath walls out.
The little bit of mold I bleached on ceiling has not come back. I credit that to having a slick hard many coats of enamel paint AND I did cure the source of excess moisture needless to say.
I am going to drywall over the existing ceiling since it is holding up loose insulation at this point.
BTW, I am going to use paperless drywall in there above a 4' beltline of concrete board which will be covered with ceramic tile. Same way or inside shower surround except there it will get a poly vapor barrier behind concrete board,,,and ditra waterproof liner OVER the concrete board before tile install. poly has to be over lip of tub so water drains into tub at all costs. Its the ONLY goof proof way of tiling a shower surround.
Well i think the easiest way to remove and remedy mold that is visible. (clearly it can naturally be found in the air at high levels)
you will 1st have to find out where the moisture is coming from that is causeing the mold to feed. You say mold in a room. If the mold is inside the walls you should gut the room.Could be leaking in from the gutter going through the attic in between the walls. This is common especially in commercial building or in cities that have a lot of snow and melting going on.Its called ice dams and bucking water.
Mold can be killed by alot of stuff. Find out where and why there is mold. Then you can do the clean up.
I suggest remove and replace materials.
If it's in a bathroom then you have to find out what is feeding it. Constant water leaks are notorious for this. Home improvement stores carry chemicals other than bleach to remedy mold.
Geez 1 mold thread would have been sufficient instead of spamming every mold thread around :roll:
We don't have a mold problem now,we have a mold thread problem!!!!!