Establishing a proper portfolio structure

Establishing a proper portfolio structure

Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 43 posts · 12 votes

I understand there are a variety of forums, many of which can address my situation to a certain extent, however, I thought it would make sense to lay out the exact context of my situation.

I am getting ready to purchase my first investment property (first property altogether actually - currently rent) in Pittsburgh, PA. A friend and I are going in on the deal and decided the first step we should act on is to establish an LLC to purchase and hold the property under. I have plans on buying more properties in the future, which I assume setting up a separate LLC for each would then make sense, however, I want to be very cognizant of a few different strategies / approaches up front so that I can be nimble and flexible with my portfolio for years to come. With that in mind, here comes my question...

In your experience, what have you seen work best for a portfolio of properties, many of which you may have different partners and different legal structures in place? I'm wondering if continuing with the "one LLC per property purchase" rule makes sense or if there is something else I should consider? The other piece of this puzzle is from the financing perspective. I'm wondering if and how I should set up a separate business banking account to be able to maintain these properties going forward in order to avoid the co-mingling of personal and investment funds. Would it make sense to have a separate bank account per LLC then? If I followed that mindset and in a few years I have 10 properties, 10 LLCs, and 10 business banking account with 5 different partners I feel like that might be an absolute nightmare and ongoing headache. I want to make sure I'm thinking about all of these things up front so that I can be flexible down the line. Does it make to have one business bank account and federal tax id and if so how can I link/associate that with a variety of different LLCs? The other biggest concern I have that I want to be thinking of is how all of this comes together from an accounting perspective. As a part time real estate agent who also have a W2 at tax time I already understand how complicated multiple incomes can be. I'm wondering how I can structure all of this while keeping it as simple as possible.

All and all, there are many questions baked into this post but I would greatly appreciate some general guidance and/or advice of where to start.  There are so many components that can make or break your success in this business and would love to hear what has worked for others and see if it may be applicable to my scenario.  I'd much rather put more time in up front thinking about the foundation of my strategy and investment structure than piece together a variety of broken parts down the line.  Any and all info, success stories, nightmares would be appreciate to help steer me in the right direction.  Thanks BP community!! 

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Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 38 votes
10y

hi @Cameron C.!  My husband and I live and invest in Pittsburgh, too! 

My advice- ask a real estate lawyer and also a CPA (preferably one who works with investors and can help you with tax benefits etc. too). Make sure you think long term where you want to go, how many properties you want, etc. They'll be able to guide you and keep you legally compliant :) 

As far as what we do - we have 1 LLC and multiple properties under that, with a separate business bank account . It's easier IMO when it comes to keeping the accounting/books, plus then you know how your properties are truly performing.

We use Phil Scolieri as our real estate attorney (Greater Pittsburgh Settlement Company) and Wilke and Associates in Carnegie as our accountants. Both are investor friendly and worth every penny! :) They helped us set everything up. 

Best of luck to you! Let me know if you need anything else. 

-Lacee 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 60 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    hi @Cameron C.!  My husband and I live and invest in Pittsburgh, too! 

    My advice- ask a real estate lawyer and also a CPA (preferably one who works with investors and can help you with tax benefits etc. too). Make sure you think long term where you want to go, how many properties you want, etc. They'll be able to guide you and keep you legally compliant :) 

    As far as what we do - we have 1 LLC and multiple properties under that, with a separate business bank account . It's easier IMO when it comes to keeping the accounting/books, plus then you know how your properties are truly performing.

    We use Phil Scolieri as our real estate attorney (Greater Pittsburgh Settlement Company) and Wilke and Associates in Carnegie as our accountants. Both are investor friendly and worth every penny! :) They helped us set everything up. 

    Best of luck to you! Let me know if you need anything else. 

    -Lacee 

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    Use a "Series LLC" where different properties and partners can operate in a "cell" as a separate entity but everything is consolidated under one LLC.

    Using separate LLCs will be an admin and logistical night mare, insurance costs will be higher as liability coverage becomes limited to one property rather than spread over all properties as an umbrella. Multiple LLCs, your attorney and tax guy will love you for duplicating their work.

    However, I do suggest a separate LLC for multi family, 5 or more units as the concentration of tenants is higher and that increases liability exposures.

    Keep it simple, build in the options of courses you might take in the future, what tactics might be used and cover those areas as you form your Operating Agreement. 

    Don't mess around with internet DIY stuff, see a good attorney from the beginning. 

    Good luck :) 

  • Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 102 posts · 24 votes
    10y
    Cameron, I think you identified the problem with your structure. It certainly is and will be a nightmare to try to manage that many entities and accounts. Plus your paying for that many LLC formations, tax returns, etc. So the cost of you doing business will be substantially higher. Unless you're buying larger commercial properties, that structure to me doesn't make any sense. Obviously an attorney and tax professional will give you great legal guidance, but you need to also think of your business model and how you'll actually execute what your structuring.
  • Accountant · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    In regards to bank accounts and accounting, I recommend to keep things simple at first before you create a cluster of accounts and ledgers.  Obviously, you will want to account for each property separately, but you can operate multiple properties with one bank account (easier to track if it is separate from your personal account).  However, if you are going in on a property with someone else, might be better to open up an account specific for that property to keep things separate.  

    In regards to ownership and liability, I do not plan to setup a LLC to own our rental property. I plan to have a fire policy on each rental, bundled with our other insurance coverage, with an umbrella, collectively considered as "one" policy. Not only do we receive discounts on our auto insurance, personal homeowners, etc., we can then apply discounts to our rental properties.

  • Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    We have just two rental properties of less value than our actual home. We have all of our insurance policies bundled and an umbrella liability policy. The discounts really add up with just the two rental properties added to our home and vehicles, it made the umbrella policy quite affordable. I'm sure really good credit has also helped. 

    I don't think we will go the LLC route anytime soon, but we do plan to put our properties into a trust as we approach retirement age. Having our properties under our own name, gives us a huge tax relief on income taxes since we are funneling our profits into upgrades and large item repairs that are considered upgrades on taxes (stucco redo on outside of apartment building). Our tax bill has been lowered between 1/3 to 3/4ths thanks mostly to improvements.

  • Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    One other thing to consider if you plan to scale up, is whether or not you want all those mortgages for properties in your name on our credit report to need to justify every time you need to do any personal or business borrowing. If I could turn back the clock I would own everything in my LLC, and will eventually have to pay the PA transfer tax again because I will be refinancing them into my LLC (or transfer when paid off).

  • Real Estate Broker · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 32 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    Cameron,

    Theres a few considerations here. First if your going to go through the effort of creating one LLC per then it would be illogical not to create accounts for them also as for the limited liability "veil" could be "pierced" if the determination is made that the LLC was established to simply be a shell.

    That being said I think it's a question of how much you scale, what I have done in the past is create LLC per investor/parter rather than per deal. I also take the extra step of creating an LLC per property that is wholly owned by the parent.

    So to outline an example let's say you have 2 partners Joe and Frank. You're going to buy 2 properties with each partner and split everything 50/50. You would create Joe LLC owned 50/50 have one bank account for Joe LLC. Joe LLC would wholly own prop1 LLC and prop2 LLC. You would also create Frank LLC own 50/50 with its own bank account which would own prop3 LLC and prop4 LLC.

    Sorry for the length of the post, feel free to PM me if you need a bit more clarity. 

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