How would you justify a $1M duplex that is 100+ years old

How would you justify a $1M duplex that is 100+ years old

New to Real Estate · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 8 votes

My landlord knows that I am interested in his property and he is trying to 1031 his duplex into more houses closer to an area to where he has other properties close by. I have no rental property experience but want to get in the game. I have the income and money to support a down payment and mortgage - could do FHA or 10-20% down.

111 year old duplex I live in - 2/1 layout, upstairs downstairs. Although the second 'bedroom' on the first floor is an awkward layout because its an add-on feature. Good location, house has many issues (not cared for great, asbestos in basement with HVAC, lead pipes most likely, poor electrical system, among many other things) but also has HVAC for AC/heating.

Right now I pay $1,900 downstairs for the larger unit with backyard/hot tub/garden/parking space, and my upstairs neighbor pays $1,250. Internet/cable/water is included in rent. My lease goes into early 2023.

Details are sketchy but he offered it to me this week a $949,000 saying he expects it to go a bit higher if he goes to market. With me there would be no cost of sale on his end with RE commission cost. There is no cash flow with this deal anywhere near this price. Also these multifamily properties have been sitting on the market locally for a long time now with these high prices - the buyers are so siloed since these houses arent really move-in ready and most home buyers want single family. But he told me he wants to get top dollar.

How would you professionals in your wisdom and lessons learned over the years approach due diligence here to build a case for a counter-offer to stick with? I am wondering if its worth getting an inspection of the outside and my unit to get a professionals idea of what's going on with the property. Comparables data isnt too easy for me to get and they dont transact too much from what I have seen. I imagine that this is not an attractive property to too many investors and would need work done on a $1M property - I believe an inspection would uncover a lot of risk, especially on foundation issues being on a fault line too (cracks in walls and all over).

The easy approach I am thinking would be to just share with him that I think we are too far apart in pricing and see if he opens up the door to negotiations.

There are some value add opportunities to improve the property if it was to be sold in the future, and to increase rent upstairs the bathroom could be redone, dishwasher put upstairs, and perhaps a washer-dryer stand up unit (instead of sharing our machines).

Let me know what other questions I can answer - trying to think through this methodically because I like the deal but the price is ridiculous - this would sell well between $700-800 I believe. Maybe below 700 depending on what is going on with the house.

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Real Estate Coach · LandlordSkool.com · Member since 2017 · 113 posts · 90 votes
4y

My two cents. Don't listen to me, but the price is not the biggest issue here, in my opinion. 

You can circle back to price later, but first, talk more to him about his intentions:

"You want $1m for this duplex huh, how did you get to that number?"
* "What about any damage (give examples)?"
* "What is the age of the roof?"
* "Age of HVAC?"
* "Age of water heater?"
* "Age of appliances?"
* "Any foundation problems?"
* etc. You get the idea...

"So, you want to 1031 to buy another deal. Do you have the deal lined up now?"

"How much money do you need for the deal?"

"If you had that amount now, would you still want to 1031 the duplex?"

"I'm trying to understand intentions. What's important to you?"

"If you really don't know the house's value, considering any maintenance and/or damage, maybe you can get an inspection. Or at least consult a real estate agent. Once I know your true underlying reason to sell, with your understanding of the value, we can work out a custom-tailored deal. I'm excited! I know if we work together we can figure everything out!"

--

Once you get to the bottom of everything then you will know what to do. Who knows, maybe you could get a loan for the amount he needs for the downpayment (if it's not $1M), then do owner financing for the remainder over time. Don't be too hungry to make a deal. Be willing to walk away. Explain your terms and if he can't get what he thinks he can, he may circle back to you later. 

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  • New to Real Estate · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Ron Singh:

    @Michael Kundrat

    Unless any of the issues scares you, It Sounds like a great deal. you got a good list prepped already, maybe be get the inspection done and make offer (20% less than what you feel is justified )

    Seller obviously is aware of most of the points you mentioned, shouldn't be too tough to negotiate.

    Anyway, there not much good locations left in US to give you cash flow from day 1.


     BTW - what makes you think its a great deal? How would you structure the deal - loan wise and rent wise and value add?

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    4y

    Is there an oil well on the property ?  Gold ?   

  • New to Real Estate · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matthew Paul:

    Is there an oil well on the property ?  Gold ?   


     LOL thanks! No dice, just asbestos, lead, and fault line issues with the homeless problem in the park across the street - last week I had to throw away a needle someone left next to my garbage can.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Michael Kundrat:
    Quote from @Matthew Paul:

    Is there an oil well on the property ?  Gold ?   


     LOL thanks! No dice, just asbestos, lead, and fault line issues with the homeless problem in the park across the street - last week I had to throw away a needle someone left next to my garbage can.


     Sounds like a deal then 

  • New to Real Estate · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    An update to the property - spoke with the landlords when they came by today to do some yardwork. Shared with them that while I like the property and its charm,etc., that they deal was too much for what I would like to pay and if they can get $1M then they should get it - they both said well... we dont think it will go for that much. So they sounded like they dont expect it to sell for what they are going to post it at ($949K).

    My upstairs neighbor is locked into a lease for close to a year, so even if rent could be increased, it cant be increased until the lease is up (landlord suggested a $500 increase in rent if you spend ~$10K in upgrades to the bathroom to get upstairs rent to $1,700).

    The numbers still dont work out too well and increasing rent that much is a bit of a long shot.

    He said that the 1031 deal is pretty well lined up, but who knows. Im not sure who this deal would work for since it has to be an owner-occupied deal to make it work for any return and both units are in leases (mine in January).

    It makes me feel like they want me to put together a deal and propose a offer to them -

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    Comps

  • Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 729 posts · 596 votes
    4y

    @Michael Kundrat

    Based on the numbers, I would chuckle and walk away. Unless you and the other tenant are paying half of what is market in the area. In my area, rents are about 2k for sfh that you can buy now even with inflated housing prices over the past 1.5 years for around 300k. And these are houses with minimal work needed. So I could buy 3 of these houses with expected rent of around $6k per month. Why are you wasting time even asking?

  • Realtor · Minneapolis MN · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 61 votes
    4y

    I House hacked an old duplex in the Avenues for a couple of years (now it's a rental), and was a Salt Lake agent. The property you describe and the cost to purchase is nothing short of hideous. Walk away. If you want to get into investing in Salt Lake 1) reach out to an agent, I can recommend many. 2) got to the Salt Lake Real Estate Investors Association (SLREIA) meetings, (or Utah Real Estate Investors Association). They have lectures and lunches. Remember, when networking, the 80/20 rule applies. 20% of the investors do 80% of the business. Most of the people there are just like you- trying to start out, or maybe house hacking.

  • New to Real Estate · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Andy Jenkins:

    I House hacked an old duplex in the Avenues for a couple of years (now it's a rental), and was a Salt Lake agent. The property you describe and the cost to purchase is nothing short of hideous. Walk away. If you want to get into investing in Salt Lake 1) reach out to an agent, I can recommend many. 2) got to the Salt Lake Real Estate Investors Association (SLREIA) meetings, (or Utah Real Estate Investors Association). They have lectures and lunches. Remember, when networking, the 80/20 rule applies. 20% of the investors do 80% of the business. Most of the people there are just like you- trying to start out, or maybe house hacking.


     thanks, andy! and i appreciate your perspective since you lived in the aves - helpful to know you know the area. This house is near liberty park... for those of you who know liberty park now hhaha.

    Would love some recommendations of agents to work with too - feel free to DM? thanks!

  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    The issue here isn't the age of the property, it's the condition and price stacked up against the current and future income potential of the property. This would be a horrible deal. Find something better to put your money into.

  • New to Real Estate · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 8 votes
    4y
    Quote from @John Teachout:

    The issue here isn't the age of the property, it's the condition and price stacked up against the current and future income potential of the property. This would be a horrible deal. Find something better to put your money into.


    thanks! i agree - curious how to price something out to factor in CapEx potentially needed and then rent/my mortgage for what a fair price/good price would be good to offer if this lingers on the market.

    Any thoughts or advice here to underwrite a deal in this way to at least have a thought of a price to pay?

  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y
    This property may not cash flow at half of the price. Just move on to something more realistic.
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