MLS, Realtors, Secret Society?!

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MLS, Realtors, Secret Society?!

Masa Don
Real Estate Investor · Greenwood Village, CO · Member since 2009 · 41 posts · 0 votes

MLS, Realtors, Secret Society?!

I work in the investment world, managing retirement plans. It is extremely important to me that I am on the same side of the table as my client. This my real estate friends is not possible in this world of real estate investing. I have been investing in real estate for just under five years, and every purchase I make pains me to pay the realtor fees when I find the house or muli-unit property, I submit the purchase price, and I do my market research. Now don’t get me wrong I love my realtor she is wonderful, she has even cut me a flat rate deal so that she IS on the same side of the table as me. However because she is so good, I do not feel comfortable asking her to find me deals because she has MUCH larger clients, she is extremely busy working amazing deals for HUGE investors and has simply put me under her wing. Thus I had to begin looking for another realtor, hypothetical situation . . .

Our relationship in the real estate business starts as follows.

Realtor “What are you looking for?â€

Me “Looking for a property that matches this equation bla bla blaâ€

Realtor “I found you a couple of great deals!!!â€

Me Excited! “Where?! Lets do it!â€

Realtor shows me three properties that I have passed over for the last four months.

Me “These don’t fit my equationâ€

Realtor “Your equation must be flawed because these are great propertiesâ€

The issue at hand I wanted a certain type of property and have never been shown that property, the only realtor that I have found that is awesome is too busy because she IS good! Then when a property is finally found; realtors are paid on a percentage of the house, which is fine for sellers, but terrible for buyers, what motivation does a buyers agent have to negotiate a price down, they get paid less!!!! That is WRONG! Oh and look at Mortgage brokers as well, the higher they can get you qualified the more they get paid as well because they are paid on a percentage as well! Seriously people this is NOT ok, we wonder why we ended up with a HUGE housing burst, the only people working for the buyer is . . . . . NO ONE!!!!! I would like to know ONE good reason why MLS is not public domain!?! Also I would like to know why Leagalzoom.com or something like it does not have the right to create and sell LEGAL documents that would solidify a real estate sale. (may be they do if they do let me know! ïŠ) WHY MUST YOU USE A REALTOR?! Or a Real Estate Lawyer?

Your humbled real estate investor.

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  • Richard Warren
    Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
    17y

    First off, real estate agents are transaction-based salespeople. If they don’t make a sale they don’t eat. They need to sell you something so they will take your parameters and find something as close as possible and then tell you it’s a wonderful deal even if it’s a piece of garbage. Agents who truly knowledgeable in investing are extremely rare and worth their weight in gold. The best deals are not going to be found by your typical agent or listed on the MLS. Since you don’t seem to be in a position of being able to hunt for deals yourself, you should think about using wholesalers. Attend local real estate club meetings and find as many wholesalers as you can and give them your parameters. You will probably find that you are presented with much better deals. However, many wholesalers are newbies who have a lot to learn, look for those who have been doing it long enough to have learned the ropes.

    :cool:

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  • Masa Don
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Greenwood Village, CO · Member since 2009 · 41 posts · 0 votes
    17y

    That is a great advice, can a wholesaler sell the property to me or will I have to use a realtor?

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  • Mark Yuschak
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Grand Blanc, MI · Member since 2008 · 885 posts · 316 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Masa Don:
    realtors are paid on a percentage of the house, which is fine for sellers, but terrible for buyers, what motivation does a buyers agent have to negotiate a price down, they get paid less!!!! That is WRONG!

    I'm a real estate investor and Realtor. I've been beyond BURIED with investors. So much so that I don't have time to do hardly any of my own deals...

    To take your point a step further, it's equally diluted for the sellers too. What motivation does a Realtor have to keep that price real low (other than a quicker closing, perhaps)? The seller's agent will get paid less, too, when the asking price is too low.

    Your exact logic is one of the main reasons I hesitated to become an agent to begin with. It's in both agents best interest to attempt to over inflate the purchase price!

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  • Richard Warren
    Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
    17y

    The wholesaler doesn’t sell property but a contract on the property. They will generally have the property under contract and then assign the contract to you for a fee. Most of the time these properties are not listed with a Realtor. If it is the commission would already be taken into account in the pricing.

    :cool:

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  • Eric Wang
    Real Estate Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2008 · 228 posts · 13 votes
    17y

    Unless you find a Realtor who is also in rental property business, they will have a misunderstanding about cash flow. The truth is, it's hard to find cash flowing property online. Your going to have to physically talk to people.
    "When buying on MLS, your going to pay retail."

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  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    Of course, if you buy from a wholesaler, be prepared to pay all cash or at minimum, your standard investor downpayment + the assignment fee in cash as your lender will not consider the assignment into the loan. Because NAR and most agents would be out of a job!
    Podcast Guest on Show #130
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  • Nancy Carr
    Real Estate Professional · McCalla, AL · Member since 2008 · 67 posts · 23 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Mark Yuschak:
    Originally posted by Masa Don:
    realtors are paid on a percentage of the house, which is fine for sellers, but terrible for buyers, what motivation does a buyers agent have to negotiate a price down, they get paid less!!!! That is WRONG!


    I'm a real estate investor and Realtor. I've been beyond BURIED with investors. So much so that I don't have time to do hardly any of my own deals...

    To take your point a step further, it's equally diluted for the sellers too. What motivation does a Realtor have to keep that price real low (other than a quicker closing, perhaps)? The seller's agent will get paid less, too, when the asking price is too low.

    Your exact logic is one of the main reasons I hesitated to become an agent to begin with. It's in both agents best interest to attempt to over inflate the purchase price!

    Well said!!! :mrgreen:

    0Reply
  • Alan Brymer
    Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2008 · 90 posts · 8 votes
    17y

    you don't have to use a realtor to buy a house if you don't want to. I would let them know what your terms are kind of properties are looking for, and if they don't agree with them or find it too difficult to do than find a new realtor.

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  • Matt Mathews
    Real Estate Consultant · yucaipa, CA · Member since 2008 · 233 posts · 109 votes
    17y

    As a Agent/nvestor-I specialize in finding Buy&hold cash flowing properties for my own portfolio and my Investor clients. My question is: What are you looking for in an Agent. If you just want access to the MLS go to any Realtor website-It's free access. If on the other hand your seeking my advice and want to tap into my network of Investor resources to get your deals done, then keep searching-we're out there! Good Luck!!!

    Mathews Realty Associates LLC
    Agent/Investor Specialist
    Multi-family, Apartments, Commercial

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  • Mark Yuschak
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Grand Blanc, MI · Member since 2008 · 885 posts · 316 votes
    17y

    Charlie and Matt - VERY well said.

    Yes, the good agents are out there (I like to think of myself as one of them and my track record seems to prove it). Just like anything else, it takes work to find them. But once you do, stick with them and build a strong relationship.

    I originally became a Realtor for the very sake of HATING agents. None of them could what I wanted, how I wanted it, when I needed it. So, I found my time was better spent to get the license and do it myself. It's paid for itself by a 10-fold, at least. Now, I'm the one helping other investors.

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  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    Thats great Mark. It is sad that there are so many poor quality agents out there and so few good ones. Perhaps we can "educate them" in the how to's of dealing with investors!
    Podcast Guest on Show #130
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  • Brandon E
    Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2009 · 57 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    I've seen buyer agents advertise on Craigslist that they work with investors. They claim to locate cash flow investment properties and great handyman fixer upper flips; Ironically, just as most other agents they don't answer e-mails or return phone calls, but others may find someone who they can deal with this way. - Brandon

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  • Mark Brian
    Involved In Real Estate · Anderson, SC · Member since 2008 · 350 posts · 70 votes
    17y

    If it is a great deal, wouldn't I buy it myself? Or tell a family member/friend about it? The very reason I got my license.

    The downside is I have my license, so I am held to different standard and must disclose I am an agent. And the general dislike of agents.

    If the MLS is the only way you can find deals, you are limiting yourself.

    0Reply
  • Ariane Randolph
    Real Estate Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2009 · 49 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    Hi all, I am a newly working agent, but I am also an investor working to acquire my first income producing property. Unfortunately I got my license thinking that I would learn about the investing side of real estate, and of course once I did it I realized it was just the opposite. My license was inactive for the past 3 years.

    So I decided to go active recently for a couple of reasons: 1. I wanted to network with people, 2. I wanted to learn how to sell, or become familiar with coming into to contact with people and selling or dealing with rejection from people, 3. and also make extra income that I could invest with.

    Now at the beginning of both sides of the industry, and all areas in between, I am trying to learn valuable lessons to be a great agent that can work with investors and I want to develop into successful investor so that I can just focus on investing and creating wealth.

    So, I find all the comments thus far excellent! Thanks for sharing.

    0Reply
  • Aly W.
    Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I find myself in the exact situation of Masa Don. I have a great agent, but I'm a small beans investor compared to his other clients. He's extremely helpful in many ways but not in helping me find deals according the investor equation practiced here.

    I've had my referral license for 6 years and finally decided to activate it full time and do my own comp research, schedule appointments for myself, talk to people - the same reasons Ariane listed. Going to local investment meetings and finding wholesalers sounds like the way to go.

    BP is the best :)

    0Reply
  • Stephen McKee
    Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2008 · 382 posts · 72 votes
    17y

    I am an investor and Realtor. I work with a short list (eleven) of other investors that are looking for homes. I'm not there only Realtor. I submit offers for my self on a regular basis. So many offers that I can not buy all of them. I flip one a quarter or so. Some times I hold them as well. If my money is tied up I start going down the list. I call all my clients until some one is willing to take the deal as I have written it. This makes everyone happy because I have the deal structure, bid, and estimated sales price, already put together. All my client just has to do is pull the trigger. If you are trying to find a Realtor in you area I suggest looking for someone who works similar to this.

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  • Masa Don
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Greenwood Village, CO · Member since 2009 · 41 posts · 0 votes
    17y

    I am seeing a recuring feature out of a lot of these posts, by the way thank you all for your responces they have been extremely helpfull! It seems as though the real deals are not the realtor deals but the groud level search em' up deals that you do not need a realtor for.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Real Estate Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2008 · 48 posts · 17 votes
    17y

    Masa Don! Nope, you don’t need an agent. Like some others have said, the MLS is available to you through realtor websites. Not all the info is there, but enough. Then go to realtor.com with the MLS number to find the listing agent. Submit offer to listing agent directly. Use a property data service like RealQuest or Haines Criss-Cross for your comps. Expensive, but a must have.

    0Reply
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    I see your point Mark, but quality agents will be finding more deals than they can take down themselves and even pass on to their families so in those cases, they would have deals to float to their investor buyer dtabases (assuming they are quality agents finding real deals)
    Originally posted by Mark Brian:
    If the MLS is the only way you can find deals, you are limiting yourself.
    Very, very true!!!
    Podcast Guest on Show #130
    0Reply
  • Chris Da
    Real Estate Investor · Phoenixville, PA · Member since 2008 · 105 posts · 38 votes
    17y

    I am sure people will disagree with me, but her is a suggestion that worked for me..
    Find a down to earth realtor who will let you use his or her password to the MLS.. Its that simple..You can spend hours on there looking for things, and you may even come across stuff that you didn;t think to suggest to your realtor.

    I do this all the time..I can do my own comps, check days on market, all types of things..

    This makes it easy on my realtor..I search for my own stuff, do my own homework to where the deal suits me, and when I find something I like, he does the agreement.. It works out perfect. I bought 4 places this year doing it this way..

    Just an idea..Bottom line, the realtor knows you are gonna give him the deal, and say you have a 500k line, he knows your need him to write it, why wouldn't they allow you to do thier job..

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  • Matt Mathews
    Real Estate Consultant · yucaipa, CA · Member since 2008 · 233 posts · 109 votes
    17y

    Can't share passwords legally. Here in Ca. you now have to log in-get a daily pin # then log back in again. Brokers have been sharing passwords with new agents for years. The Broker fine-by the way-is $1K first offense. 2nd offense-Kick off the board, suspended license. They don't call it a secret society for nothing. By the way-all the best deals aren't even listed on the MLS-The other secret is called; Pocket listings! My Investor clients get them first.

    0Reply
  • Masa Don
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Greenwood Village, CO · Member since 2009 · 41 posts · 0 votes
    17y

    Explain these "pocket listings"

    0Reply
  • Michael Culler
    Real Estate Investor · Tampa Bay, FL · Member since 2009 · 180 posts · 17 votes
    17y

    Use your Realtor on the Sale side.

    Go directly to the listing agent if you must buy a house that is listed by a realtor.

    Buying from a wholesaler will bring great discounts. If you cant pay cash, think about getting hard money for the purchase, since it allows for assignment fees to be paid to the wholesaler.

    0Reply
  • Mark Brian
    Involved In Real Estate · Anderson, SC · Member since 2008 · 350 posts · 70 votes
    17y


    With friends or family, I trust them and vice versa. I am only going to pass on great deals to people who are willing to give me the ability to make a living while making them succesful.

    If great deals go by without me telling someone about them, it is not because I do not know they exist. It is because no one trusted me enough to hire me to find the great deals for them.

    I do not work finding great deals for customers, only clients. There is a difference in my state between a customer and a client and would take too long to explain the difference .
    0Reply
  • Mark Brian
    Involved In Real Estate · Anderson, SC · Member since 2008 · 350 posts · 70 votes
    17y

    Not listed on the MLS. A property owner has said they are willing to sell it and pay the agent a commission, but do not want it on the MLS, advertised, sign on the property. The listing is in the agent's pocket. Often no listing contract but just a verbal agreement between 2 parties that trust each other because of past experience.

    Useful for a business or rental property. Or a high dollar home that the owner's do not want others knowing their business, seeing the pictures of the interior and their possessions.

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