Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
Just wondering - do you want to make money, or not? haha
I talked to a friend literally 3 days ago. He said living in Chicago is becoming affordable. Apparently, since he's been in office Rahm Emanuel, in his infinite wisdom, has hiked taxes to a tune of 80%. At the same time, price inflation is here, according to my friend. Population decline of 6%-8% since 2,000, depending on how you count, is part and parcel with the above-mentioned. Last I checked, when playing REI it helps when A: there are people, and B: they can afford ****...
Cleveland is even worse at 16% population decline since 2,000. Think about this - 16 out of 100 people have chosen to get the hell out in the last 15 years, while you're thinking about going in...cause property is cheap hahaha
You can play in these markets, but you can't afford management, meaning you MUST BE LOCAL. If you are - OK. But, I would look at B Class property in either Columbus OH, or Indianapolis IN. Those are the only two markets in the midwest that I can recommend, and you still have to be very, very careful.
Real Estate Investor · Saint Louis, Alsace · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 3 votes
9y
And why not, i am intereset on the city. If you dont like my question, you dont have to answer it. There is no right or wrong, we know that you are the most experienced investor on the planet.
Developer · Hobart, IN · Member since 2014 · 773 posts · 225 votes
9y
@Account Closed I think it depends on what type of investing you are looking to do. buy and hold or fix and flips. Chicago or Cook County specifically can be pretty tough to have rentals in.
Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 283 posts · 71 votes
9y
@Account Closed currently invest in Chicago and it works great for flips and rentals in my opinion. Do not know much about Cleveland investment. Prices have steadily increased over the past years but the deals are still available if you work with the right folks. Chicago can be very block by block and have to move quickly on deals as often good investments are under contract in a week
Real Estate Professional · California, MD · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 8 votes
9y
I'm just researching to hopefully purchase this year. The thing that draws me to Chicago is the multi-unit aspect/ scaling. Two and three unit buildings are a dime a dozen in the rougher neighborhoods. The thing that scares me is management.
Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Born and raised in Cleveland and have lived in Chicago for 7 years. Both cities are not only very different from each other, but each has two cities within the city (Chicago - split by North/South; Cleveland - split by East/West). With that said, if you're only interested in a broad market comparison, you can look at key metro factors to help answer your question. Both metros are actually seeing a decline in population, but offer glimmers of hope at the core of the major cities. Chicago has and will continue to serve as the hot bed of the midwest with strong rents and appreciation in neighborhoods near downtown. Further out, there are other neighborhoods that are beginning to emerge and gentrify, while delivering strong returns.
I was in Cleveland for Game 1 of the World Series and the energy was palpable, something I've never seen in the city before. I was back for Thanksgiving and it's still a clear difference in the vibe than was ever there when I was growing up. With that said, there seems to be demand growth in the neighborhoods near downtown like University Circle, Ohio City and Tremont.
All in all, I prefer Chicago because of the appreciation potential on top of the cash flow, even though Cleveland can offer a stronger cash flow return, generally speaking.
Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Hi Guys, I am wondering, if you have to decide on investing between two cities, which one would YOU choose... Chicago or Cleveland?
I see many investors wonder about both cities. I can tell you that Cleveland is on the rise and the ROIs here are AMAZING! Homes are still very affordable, but the rents are pretty good. It give you a nice return. Feel free to send me a message with any questions.
Investor · Northern, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 904 votes
9y
@Account Closed - Cubbies vs Indians? I will go with Cubbies all day long. Or maybe you are a LeBron fan and would like to swing in that direction? or maybe you can just flip a coin. Head; Chitown. Tail; Cleveland. Or you can make more informed decision based on neighborhoods, blocks, cost of doing business, your team, your involvement in the project etc. Your call.
Wilmington, DE · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 59 votes
9y
I am from the East coast, and know nothing about these cities (obviously there are tons of neighborhoods in each city that come with good areas and bad). With that being said, I laugh to myself as I just watched the 60 minutes this weekend on Chicago and how there were 55 shootings in the 6 days they were reporting there.
I am from the East coast, and know nothing about these cities (obviously there are tons of neighborhoods in each city that come with good areas and bad). With that being said, I laugh to myself as I just watched the 60 minutes this weekend on Chicago and how there were 55 shootings in the 6 days they were reporting there.
But there are neighborhoods of Chicago that are just fine, and I am sure there are neighborhoods of Cleveland that are pretty rough also. Real Estate changes drastically sometimes from block to block. Baltimore is a prime example. (Listen to latest podcast) To ask "Chicago or Cleveland" is as naive as it gets. But hey.... at least I had a good laugh. Like I said.. "Cubbies or Indians" would determine the answer..
Wilmington, DE · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 59 votes
9y
I had no idea there were good and bad neighborhoods that vary block to block in cities... thanks @Chinmay J. ... I didnt even think to mention that in my own post
I had no idea there were good and bad neighborhoods that vary block to block in cities... thanks @Chinmay J. ... I didnt even think to mention that in my own post
Sure are. Richmond, VA is another example. And as I alluded to earlier Baltimore, MD is a really good one.
Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Chinmay J. @Account Closed As for Baltimore city, it is very block specific. In addition, the real estate strategy is also important and can determine what area(s) to look at.
Real Estate Investor · Saint Louis, Alsace · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 3 votes
9y
the only one who is naive is the one who makes jokes about the others and posts more than he makes offers on deals.
The question was macro not micro analysis.
We all know the internet research areavibes trulia, call local brokers, pm, police department, local planning department blablabla....our investment strategy is to revitalize neighbourhoods so we are going out of our comfortzone looking c neighborhoods and not looking where is the neatest place to invest so that i dont loose my money....we play to win...
from a macro view my question was; which city would YOU VOTE....
but i got already some great answers that made my final decision on buying the apartment complexes so thank you !
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Normally I'd provide a link to stats to support my response to this post, but no time for that now.
In short if I had to decide between Cleveland and Chicago I'd choose:
Cleveland for buy and hold SFRs. Good price points inside the city and surrounding suburbs. The environment is more landlord friendly than Chicago
Chicago for SFR & small multi flips- lots of opportunity and profit margins are some of the best given the price points. Not a hyper market, but it works. Buy and hold works in Chicago for small multi. T
Commercial Real Estate- right now- Chicago hands down.
I guess in short, if given the choice I would invest in both markets.
Moreland Hills, OH · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 47 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Hi Guys, I am wondering, if you have to decide on investing between two cities, which one would YOU choose... Chicago or Cleveland?
Marcel, I understand you didn't like Brent's response to your question but he hit the nail on the head. Cleveland is street by street. Don't let anyone tell you investing in our city is just "one way". There's a lot going on. Personally, I recommend the first place to start for out of town investors is to first either pick east or west as to which side of the city you'd like to focus on and go from there.
With that said... the Cubs still suck ;P ROLL TRIBE!!!
I'm just researching to hopefully purchase this year. The thing that draws me to Chicago is the multi-unit aspect/ scaling. Two and three unit buildings are a dime a dozen in the rougher neighborhoods. The thing that scares me is management.
Up/down duplexes are a nickel a dozen in Cleveland proper. Drive down any street with Google maps. That's not saying they're in rehab-ready condition, for sale, or even that you'd want to own them... but we definitely have a large inventory of them.
Investor · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2016 · 203 posts · 191 votes
9y
@Account Closed can determine naivety from a simple macro question. Marcel I looked at your profile and I can see that you're not naive at all. With your amount of experience, perhaps we should be asking you the questions.
Back to Cleveland... There are great things happening here. The population decline isn't enough to create a housing surplus, especially in the nice areas of town. I'm bullish on this city for the long run, but I wouldn't bet on excess appreciation. With the older homes in this town, there's a lot of opportunity for forced appreciation, equity acquisition and cash flow. To me, those are all the key components of a long term, buy and hold portfolio.
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
Just wondering - do you want to make money, or not? haha
I talked to a friend literally 3 days ago. He said living in Chicago is becoming affordable. Apparently, since he's been in office Rahm Emanuel, in his infinite wisdom, has hiked taxes to a tune of 80%. At the same time, price inflation is here, according to my friend. Population decline of 6%-8% since 2,000, depending on how you count, is part and parcel with the above-mentioned. Last I checked, when playing REI it helps when A: there are people, and B: they can afford ****...
Cleveland is even worse at 16% population decline since 2,000. Think about this - 16 out of 100 people have chosen to get the hell out in the last 15 years, while you're thinking about going in...cause property is cheap hahaha
You can play in these markets, but you can't afford management, meaning you MUST BE LOCAL. If you are - OK. But, I would look at B Class property in either Columbus OH, or Indianapolis IN. Those are the only two markets in the midwest that I can recommend, and you still have to be very, very careful.
Just wondering - do you want to make money, or not? haha
I talked to a friend literally 3 days ago. He said living in Chicago is becoming affordable. Apparently, since he's been in office Rahm Emanuel, in his infinite wisdom, has hiked taxes to a tune of 80%. At the same time, price inflation is here, according to my friend. Population decline of 6%-8% since 2,000, depending on how you count, is part and parcel with the above-mentioned. Last I checked, when playing REI it helps when A: there are people, and B: they can afford ****...
Cleveland is even worse at 16% population decline since 2,000. Think about this - 16 out of 100 people have chosen to get the hell out in the last 15 years, while you're thinking about going in...cause property is cheap hahaha
You can play in these markets, but you can't afford management, meaning you MUST BE LOCAL. If you are - OK. But, I would look at B Class property in either Columbus OH, or Indianapolis IN. Those are the only two markets in the midwest that I can recommend, and you still have to be very, very careful.
Good Luck!
Ben, why do you say that we can't afford management? I'm guessing you're specifically referring to the TK companies?