Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Journey to $5M with Multi-Units: FAQ

Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes

Hello BP community! We’ve followed BiggerPockets for years and a few months ago I posted in the success story forum on how my husband and I went from complete real estate failure and debt to coming back and buying a $5M property in 6 years. Some community members asked questions in the post about things like how we got started, when and how we “traded up” properties and why we chose certain exit strategies. Others asked about books we’d recommend and other resources.

In this thread, we are going a step further and answering those questions and more that you might have.   We came up with the most frustrating or challenging aspects of multi-family and will post in this thread each week.   Here's the first post:

Gotta know where you stand.

Your opportunity awaits. What kind of financial base do you have right now to go after your first property?

So you’ve been listening to BiggerPockets podcasts for months… You’ve decided you want to start with multi-units. Where do you actually begin? How do you know where to start? In later forum posts we’ll talk about the business plan but before you can build the plan, you need to know where you stand today. In this post, we’ll look to answer how much money you’ll need to get started. Let’s begin with some very basic property research.

Research

First, we need to determine how much do multi-units cost in your area? At this point, we are NOT doing a full property analysis but simply starting to determine how much you’ll likely need. When it comes to your first multi-unit, there’s a lot of discussion on BiggerPockets about “house-hacking” which means creating rental income that can cover the costs of your monthly mortgage. A common house-hacking scenario described is to buy a duplex, live in one unit and rent out the other.

Very sound strategy… but is this an option for you? House-hacking is not a one-size-fits-every investor. What if you already have a house? What if you have kids in school and there aren’t any multi-unit properties in your district? What if your local area doesn’t have multi-units in safe neighborhoods?

You may be wondering why we are trying to determine this so early in the process. The reason is that as we get into the mortgage options there are some scenarios that will only apply if you will be living in the property. And, the various pros/cons of different types of mortgages include the amount required for down payment.

Ok. So, is house-hacking right for your first multi-unit? Here’s a simple decision tree:

What did you decide? Or, not sure yet? If not, take a drive and see what you think of the properties currently for sale. Maybe list out a pros/cons for your situation.

Now we are ready to look at costs. Let’s use the below example multi-unit costs as a starting point for this analysis with a purchase price range of $100k-$219k. We’ll be using the Phoenix 4-Plex as our case study property throughout this series of posts.

Determining Gap to Down Payment

How much money are you going to need for the down payment? This depends on the type of loan and your credit rating. The great news about properties with 4 units and under is that these properties are still classified as residential. With a residential mortgage you’ll have lower qualifications and the ability to lock in long-term fixed rates.

For our first 4-plex, we worked with Dan Francis, who is a nationwide residential mortgage lender. Because of his experience working with investors, Dan understands the funding details of rental properties as well as tax and income. We caught up earlier this week and he shared the different types of residential loans available and pros/cons of each for investors.

One question you may have is when should an investor start the prequalification process?

Dan’s recommendation is to start as early in the process as possible. He has found that many times potential investors have misconceptions about what is required. Some people might think they don’t have enough of a down payment or that their credit score won’t qualify. A good mortgage broker will help you create a plan for your specific situation.

What types of mortgages are available and could be part of your overall plan? Dan provided me with the following initial guide on mortgages that can be leveraged for 4-units and under:

Looking at our case study property which has a purchase price of $219,000, and using the guide above, we can see that the minimum down payment amounts would be:

  • House-hack + FHA = $7,665
  • House-hack + VA = $0 (!!!)
  • Stay in primary home = $32,850

With a clear direction on the initial funds needed to get started, we can now focus on saving for the down payment. In our next post, we’ll dive into this.

14Reply
195 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Casa Grande, AZ · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 32 votes
9y

A wealth of knowledge in this thread! And not only limited to multifamily, much of the advice is applicable to SFH investors as well.

Regarding market trends and whatnot, I've found that, at least in a general sense, the alert features on the major home search sites can provide a steady flow of relevant information to your personal inbox. Keep in mind, the data may not be up-to-the-minute, and there's a chance the property details aren't 100% accurate, but this method seems to give a nice overview of what's going on in your farm.

Take the time to create accounts on Trulia, Redfin, Zillow, Realtor, and/or your alternate site of choice, and enable email alerts for the type of properties you're interested in, in the areas you're focusing on. Be sure to set up the alerts for both properties for sale, as well as for rent. From there, simply check up on the emails you receive each day, taking note of the neighborhoods, property features, and of course, the prices and rents. Within short order you'll start seeing patterns, as well as shifts in the numbers as time passes by. You could keep it as casual as simply taking mental notes, or go as in-depth as recording the various properties into a spreadsheet, then creating charts and graphs.

Once you start getting a solid feel for the overall market you're interested in, don't be afraid to get more specific with your filters. Perhaps you're only wanting to see 3/2 SFH's, condos, multifamily's, or even raw land. Before you know it, you'll see or hear the name of a community and instantly know the ballpark figures for the various properties held within. And more importantly, when a potential deal does cross your path, you'll recognize it when you see it!

See this reply in the discussion

37 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor · Cottontown, TN · Member since 2017 · 20 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Nichole Stohler

    Enjoyed the post.  Though I must admit, I am jumping in.  My long term goal seems to align with your experience, but I do not think I am going to aim as high though.  (I am getting in purely for the passive cash flow, but I am willing to work to get that part started.)  I'll be interested in following your posts.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Chris H., totally get it and we had the same focus.... cash flow and better returns than the market.  It's amazing how things can snowball into something bigger.    That first deal is so key.   

    We've made a lot of mistakes along the way so hoping this series can help others avoid those :) 

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    Six Ways To Get Money For A Down Payment

    Sometimes, the biggest hurdle to getting started in multi-units is finding money.    If you are looking to buy your first multi-unit, what resources are available to you?  And which option or combination of options is right for your situation?

    Let's use a case study property that has a purchase price of $219,000. For this property, the down payment will be $7,665 if you'll be living in one of the units or $32,850 if you won't be using as a primary residence.  

    Narrowing our case study to assume you will not be living in this property. We'll also assume that you want to generate income from this property that you can use as you choose (as opposed to inside an IRA).

    So how can you come up with $32,850 to buy your first multi-unit? 

    Here are six possible options:

    Should you borrow from your retirement savings?

    Does your employer allow you to borrow from your 401k plan for general purposes? Some employers enable borrowing but restrict how the funds can be used. Examples include buying a first-time residence or to pay for education expenses but other employers allow general purpose loans that could be used for a down payment on an investment property. Looking at information from www.401Khelpcenter.com, the rules around borrowing can include:

    • Percentage. Usually up to 50% of vested balance to a max of $50k.
    • Prior loans. If you had a plan loan in the last 12 months, you’ll be limited to the amount listed above less the outstanding balance of the prior loan.
    • Pay back. Over 5 years.

    The loan payments are deducted from your payroll checks as you payback. Interest on the loan is often prime plus 1%....but you are paying yourself back. Yes, there is the opportunity cost of not being in the market but you are using these are funds to buy cash-flowing property and jump start your business.

    One of the downsides of borrowing from your 401k is that if you leave your employer prior to payoff and cannot pay back within 60 days from leaving, the funds obtained from the 401k loan are subject to income tax and 10% withdrawal penalty.

    Help from your primary home?

    Do you have equity in your primary residence? If so, you could raise funds through a home equity line of credit, a second mortgage or a cash-out refinance. Getting approval will require not only enough equity but also a good credit score and certain debt to income ratios. The types of options here include:

    Good credit? Consider a personal loan.

    Have you thought about an unsecured personal loan? Local credit unions, banks and even crowdfunding sites like Lending Club and Prosper are possible funding sources for a personal loan. The loan amounts are smaller than home equity options but if you don’t have equity in your home a personal loan could be an option. Doing a quick search, I’m currently seeing some lenders offering loans up to $25,000.

    The drawback of a personal loan is that rates will be higher since the loan isn’t secured by an asset. The interest costs should be part of your calculation when looking to buy the first property and this type of loan would be a priority to pay off as soon as possible with cash flow.

    How about a side hustle?

    There are so many options to make extra income including driving for Uber/Lyft, freelancing through sites like PeoplePerHour, pet/house sitting, house cleaning -- the list goes on.

    In the past, I’ve worked at a couple of part-time jobs in the evenings after my day job.  First, I did telemarketing for a small credit union helping grow their personal loan business. Telemarketing wasn’t really all that fun but letting people know about their options for personal loans was interesting and the hours fit well around my day job. I also worked in customer support and order fulfillment for an e-commerce site that sold school supplies. This was a fun job but just a bad side of town and some really late nights.

    For more ideas on side hustles, check out some of the BiggerPockets blog posts here and here.

    Downside…. Well… is there one to making extra income?

    Painless saving?

    When we were deep in debt I discovered the world of personal finance blogs. Have you ever checked out sites like The Simple Dollar or Mr. Money Mustache? These personal finance communities provide valuable education and tips on reducing expenses.

    One tip that we learned from these communities is to automate finances and saving. The way this works is to set up an online-only savings account where you cannot quickly access funds. Then, either have your company payroll send a certain amount to this account with each paycheck or set up an automatic transfer from your main account at set intervals.

    When your income is variable, another great tip is to set up individual accounts for major expenses like mortgage, insurance, car payment, etc. When you receive larger income, place the excess amount into these accounts. Then set up auto-deduction directly from these accounts for each creditor - mortgage, car, etc. This way, the payments will be made automatically and you’ll have those payments covered during the lean times.

    Should you work with a partner?

    Tricky question. We had a bad partnership experience (unrelated to our real estate investing business) that could have been a great partnership. The struggle was ultimately around business philosophy….we are more conservative and wanted to take things slowly and also make sure we had plenty of funds in reserve. Our partner wanted to aggressively expand and take profits out of the business right away. We ended up parting ways but had to get lawyers involved in order to recoup our original investment. Painful at the time but…..

    What a great learning experience!

    How do we approach a partnership now?  Define our expectations, walk away if it isn’t the right fit and when both parties are in agreement, work with a lawyer to draw up partnership contracts.

    Here’s some tips if you are considering a partnership:

    • Determine equity percentages. Who is bringing the most funding to the partnership? Who will be doing the most work? Who will be getting the mortgage. Answers to these questions will help you determine what is a fair split of equity.
    • Agree on roles and responsibilities.
    • Work with a lawyer to draw up partnership agreements which define roles, responsibilities, equity, contingency plans and exit strategies.

    There we have it! Six ways to come up with the down payment for your first multi-family. Which ones have you used? Are there any others that we should add to the list?  

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 224 posts · 50 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Nichole Stohler:

    Let's use a case study property that has a purchase price of $219,000. For this property, the down payment will be $7,665 if you'll be living in one of the units or $32,850 if you won't be using as a primary residence.

    Can a 15% down payment actually be obtained for a 4-unit MF when the property is not being used as the primary residence?  All lenders that I have dealt with are giving me the 25% numbers.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Moore, thank you for the comment!   I sent an email to Dan to check and just heard back.  He said you are right.  "The last one I did (last year) we could do it, but I just did some checking with my investors and I see that we would need 25% down for 2-4 plex but we could still offer 15% down on a single family residence (investment property). "   

    Yikes!  So I need to update my posts... with higher numbers.   Thank you for pointing this out!

    Not the outcome I was hoping for... It would have been great to connect you with THE mortgage banker that could get 15% for your deals.

  • New Lenox, IL · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    Nichole Stohler Thank you very much for taking the time to share your experience and post this information. As a person looking to get started and just in the learning/capital raising phase this information is invaluable. Thanks, Mike
  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Michael Richardson, so glad that the information is helping!   Next week we'll get into the business plan but I can always adjust the content based on feedback around current challenges.  

    What type of property are you thinking you'll start with?

  • New Lenox, IL · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    Nichole Stohler I'd like to start with a small MFR if I can find a deal in the price range we're comfortable with and within driving distance. Being in the south suburbs of Chicago I think we have some decent markets nearby where my wife and I can start building our portfolio. We're thinking we'll be able to get started within the next year so really concentrating on building my knowledge base of the industry as well as the surrounding markets now. Thanks, Mike
  • Matt PowellPro Member
    Investor · Bloomington, IL · Member since 2016 · 59 posts · 19 votes
    9y

    Good information @Nichole Stohler..

    I was working with @Aaron Moore on some of these exact questions. Aaron.. I'm tagging you so you can follow this post.

    Thanks for sharing your information and experience!

  • Bloomington, IL · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Matt Powell thanks I'll definitely be following this.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Matt Powell, thanks for checking out the post!     Hoping to make this as step-by-step as possible so that someone can take this and run.   I was going to cover the business plan next but might skip to how to analyze a property which is a bit more exciting.    

    What would you like to see covered that could help you right now?

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Aaron Moore, happy to help!  

  • Matt PowellPro Member
    Investor · Bloomington, IL · Member since 2016 · 59 posts · 19 votes
    9y

    @Nichole Stohler for me.. both would be beneficial. I'd like to see the Business Plan. However, it might flow better to analyze a property first. This has been exciting last few months for me. I'm noticing a lot more 'off-market' contacts directly to me and not going straight to the MLS. Oh and I have done five of the six methods you mentioned for coming up with the down payment.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    Is this a good deal?

    It seems there are a lot of questions about analyzing deals and how do you know if a property is “good”?  Although...good is a relative term because what is considered a good property for one person may not be for another. Ultimately, the decision will come down to your business plan and objectives.

    For any new investors or folks already in some area of real estate today like house flipping that want to get into your first multi-family property, let’s skip ahead to a quick property analysis on our case study property.

    We’ll come back to the business plan in future posts.

    Case Study Analysis

    Our case study property is a 4-plex for $219,000 in Phoenix that will require a $54,750 down payment as of today… just a quick note, I saw this Fannie Mae update about lenders easing on credit standards due to a reduced demand and competition. Perhaps down payment requirements for residential mortgages on a 4-plex might change again at some point as well?

    Back to the property… the listing agent has already included a brief summary of some information that we can use to do a quick analysis of the property. I’ve recorded a video here:

    https://www.useloom.com/share/7acf24e4e3244cdf88fea3e7a31dbefc


    What are some key takeaways?

    There are some pros about this property including:

    Mix of different types of units so that a diverse set of tenants would be interested in renting. Contrast this with all one-bedroom units which rules out families and reduces the potential market for tenants.

    Age of the property. This may be dependent on the local market but we try to stay with properties built at least in 1980 and up. The reason for this is due to things like asbestos in older buildings and higher maintenance costs.

    Utilities are paid by the tenants. This is one of those expenses that varies greatly and can significantly impact your bottom line. Having the tenant pay for these removes a burden from you as the property owner. As an example, if you are buying the property in a new LLC without an established history with the utility company, most companies will require a deposit per unit. This increases your out of pocket initial costs. In our experience these deposits range from $200-$300 per unit. You can get back the deposits after a time period of showing that you've successfully paid on time, but ultimately, it's ideal to be in a situation where the tenant pays utilities

    Some cons so far:

    HOA. This is an expensive monthly cost that you can't control. You won't have the ability to reduce this expense and you could potentially pay more. The HOA could assess all community property owners for things like community center or pool repairs, resurfacing the parking lot or exterior maintenance such as painting and roof replacement. Unless you own the majority of the property in an HOA community, you'll have little say in these expenses or any increases in HOA fees.

    Limited upside in rent based on market rents. A quick search on the various market rent sites and we can see that this property is almost at market rates. This means you’ll have limited opportunity to increase your revenue in the short term.

    Areas for further due diligence include:

    Any known up-coming HOA assessments (pool, parking lot, exterior improvements, etc.) It's possible these have already been communicated to the community property owners. If so, you'll need to understand what these costs are. Historical information about any last assessments and what they were for would be helpful as well.

    How long have the tenants been in the property? You’re looking to understand stability of the property. Did the tenants just sign a lease two weeks before the property was listed? Or, have they been living in the property for a longer time period? You will also want to know the length of the leases in place and when they expire. And finally, how are the current tenants about paying rent on time?

    What are the actual rents for 2016 and 2015? You are looking for the rent roll and historical performance. When a listing agent puts together a “pro forma” analysis of the property, this is a picture of the possibilities if all things were perfect. The reality isn’t pro forma so you’ll need to have real data and understand gaps in rental income.

    What are the actual expenses for 2016 and 2015? Just like rental income, expenses can also be represented in a scenario where all things work out exactly as you had hoped. Having the actual expenses will enable you to determine either opportunities where you think you can improve or big “gotchas” that will eat into your profitability.

    Before continuing on, what are your thoughts on the property so far? And, what would you do next?

  • Rental Property Investor · Cottontown, TN · Member since 2017 · 20 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Nichole Stohler Informative post, enjoyed the use to the video.

    HOA would be a consistent concern to me, I would want to get a feel for the atmosphere there. Also, are we going in this with the idea we are not going to managing the day to day?

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 224 posts · 50 votes
    9y

    I'm familiar with this community and your comments about knowing if any upcoming HOA assessments,etc. are coming up are spot on. This HOA raised dues ~$100 last year due to pool cost, etc. If someone bought last year before the raise and were not aware of the financial status of the HOA, your cashflow took a major hit after the increase.

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Chris H., great question. Day to day management for the landlord would all be "internal" items like collecting rent, taking tenant calls, dispatching repair services and screening new tenants. HOA would cover "external" like landscaping and trash.

    Your question prompted me to also show what happens on profitability if you hire a property management company.   Using the same numbers and then 10% as an estimate for these costs.. the cash flow numbers take a big dive.  Here's the before and after:

    Self Manage

    Property Management

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Moore, good to know! HOA creates such expense exposure.... I'm curious if the amenities in a community help to attract and retain tenants and thus perhaps justifes the HOA? Or... if tenant turnover is the same as a stand alone 4-Plex without a pool.

  • BOISE, ID · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 45 votes
    9y

    @Nichole Stohler, thank for the post! I think MFRs are the way to go. Are all of your properties located in your area or do you own any at a distance? 

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 9 votes
    9y
    Nichole Stohler I LOVE what you're doing with this! I'm leaning toward getting a small apartment building in the near future but I was thinking multi family units brought in more money monthly. Looking at your numbers above, $321 monthly means about $80 is made each month from each unit. Is that pretty much normal?
  • Real Estate Agent · Central New Jersey · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 37 votes
    9y
    Nichole Stohler I'm really enjoying this series! You're breaking things down in a very intuitive way. Much appreciated. I look forward to continuing to follow along :]
  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 224 posts · 50 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Nichole Stohler:

    @Ryan Moore, good to know! HOA creates such expense exposure.... I'm curious if the amenities in a community help to attract and retain tenants and thus perhaps justifes the HOA? Or... if tenant turnover is the same as a stand alone 4-Plex without a pool.

    I would like to think that a community pool would attract some tenants. Many listings in this neighborhood for example always show the pool in their MLS pictures. For my own personal residence in a HOA with a big play pool, it's always shown in listings, even rental listings. I do not recall if you mentioned it, but sometimes having a HOA means that you (the landlord) do not have to pay for water/sewer/trash. So also things to consider when running your numbers

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Wes Woodhouse,  you are welcome!  We felt the same way about MFRs when we were starting out.   The main reason is that you are really buying an existing business.  You get to review how this business is being run today and decide if there are enough opportunities to improve operations and generate cash flow.  

    We've always owned locally but that may change as we look to buy more property.... why?   Because of what is happening in our market.   I'll post more data on researching local markets and getting a handle on what is happening but in the meantime, check out this letter we just received.

    Side note,  I'm also looking for feedback on other information that would be helpful to include in these posts and will send you a PM to get your thoughts. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Moore, yep -- this one covers trash and water. You are right, the big selling point is likely the pool and other community areas. Now we just have to decide if the HOA costs are worth it for this property...

  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 116 posts · 136 votes
    9y

    @Matt Powell,  5 of the 6 is pretty awesome!   Would love to hear more about your experience and will send you a PM. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.