Where do I begin? Commercial investing -- ie: Car Wash

Where do I begin? Commercial investing -- ie: Car Wash

Loveland, CO · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes

Hello, All!  

First off, thanks for any advice that I can get.  I am learning as much as I can but there is so much to all of this. 

My wife and I have been discussing what we can do to leverage some of our money and diversify.  We both currently work in semiconductor/technology.  She is a senior level manager and I am an engineer, to sum it up, I make about 1/4 of our income which last year was over mid 6 figures... we do fairly well together but have discussed the possibility of diversifying as we are heavily invested in our current company.  

We have 1 rental which was my house prior to us moving in together and getting married.  It is self sufficient for now and has appreciated quite nicely.  Our current residence is paid off and we have no debt. 

What I am looking at right now, just as an example, is the purchase of 2 car washes here in town.  I have contacted the sellers agent and they are willing to share financials with me when I sign a CA. 

My Questions:

Where should we start?  I have been scouring BP for any and all info I can find, but there are some things that are more difficult to find. 

1.  How does financing work with something like this... the deal would be ~2.5M for both car washes.  What are we looking at loan wise for this? 

2. Should we start an LLC? and if so, I am assuming we would provide the "startup" money for this LLC then the LLC would purchase the properties.

3.  In the end, ideally, I would be quitting my day job to run this company.  My wife, the breadwinner, would be funding it.  What sort of Tax benefits are we looking at as we are quickly moving up tax brackets and are looking for write-offs. 

4.  Any other advice? 

Thanks all, for any help and patience with my complete noobieness. 

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Dave CarpenterPro Member
Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
9y

@Aaron McCurdy welcome to BP! There is a scary amount of information and smart people. I offer neither of those. I did however, just by 2 touchless (no spinning brushes) automatic (no people) car washes myself about 6 months ago, and can to some degree speak to the work and one method of purchasing that business. 

I bought an existing business using an SBA loan. The business was well run, and the maintenance was kept up on. From what I have seen and heard in the industry, that is not all that common. I have gotten into a cycle of going to the car washes 4-5 times per week, usually for a couple hours per day. Each visit entails things like emptying garbage cans and checking on the building. Weekly I am usually doing something like mowing, pulling weeds, combining partially used soap containers, etc. Mostly mindless work, but things that need to be done. 

It is not totally hands off, but does provide flexibility day to day and somewhat week to week. If I need to do something I can go to the car washes the next day or later that day. There are however problems that come up that need to be dealt with immediately. I have a couple people that live nearby that I can lean on if I am out of town. 

Happy to answer any questions on this thread, or speak directly if thats helpful. BP as of now is a little light on the Car wash info. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Agent · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 184 posts · 78 votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy

    1) What are you buying?  The land or the business.  Generally, when we sell a commercial business, we sell the business and the land separate.  Many folks on bigger pockets speak towards buying land+improvements, buildings such a multi-family, where they are buying land + improvements.  When you buy a business, you have to determine what is the standard multiplier of the business.  For example, if a business makes $1 Mil and is listed for $1 Mil, you have a multiplier of "1".  Some businesses are worth more than "1" x gross.  

    For Financing, you will want to talk to a commercial lender.  Other options include, assumption of the current owner's loan or owner financing.

    2) You definitely need to start up a corporate structure.  Do not do this by yourself.  Consult a  CPA who can advise you on the tax benefits and loopholes through owning a business.  For instance, you can pay yourself from the CPA and contribute towards 401K and Roth and minimize tax liability.

    3) Read "Rich Dad Poor Dad", owning a business is the best way to minimize your tax liabilities.  You need to find a great CPA to help advise you.  Do not try and do this by yourself.

    4) Find a business broker in your area.  I would look at multiple deals.  Partner with someone who knows the business.  Most of my investors do not "go it alone".  They own their assets in groups.  There are many people that specialize in "Flipping" businesses.  Find someone in your area and pick their brain.  

  • Loveland, CO · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    @Dan Bernstein, Thanks for the response.  I have seen a lot of reference to Rich Dad Poor Dad... I'll have to go pick it up.  I have a few buddies that are REA's and will definitely be hitting them up to see if they have any advise on who to talk to.  It just sounds like there is a lot of DD to be put into this obviously with the risk and amount of money involved. Thanks for the advice, this will help as I push forward on my research!

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Aaron McCurdy If your income numbers are accurate you should refinance your primary residence to get the mortgage interest tax deduction. You don't have to go 80/20, you can go 60/40 for a lower payment and (sometimes) a slightly lower rate. Also, given your high level of income, I'd posit you don't want to buy a business. If there were 10 car washes you could afford to pay for a "General Manager" to run around and check in on all of them. With two, you either will likely kill your profit or you will be checking in on them. My perspective is that a lot of people think certain businesses are low-touch. An example is "I'll just buy a parking lot! It's self-service and people just pay!" I worked at a large parking company, it's decidedly NOT a hands-off business to manage/run a parking lot. If the car wash is automated, you have capital equipment, service, consumables, maintenance, etc. all to deal with. If it's a high-touch (i.e. people wash the cars) you have staffing, compliance, payroll, etc. to deal with and you have no idea how "creative" employees are when it comes to theft. Again, colored from my experience in the parking industry. So, basically, be 100% sure you know what you're getting into.
  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy welcome to BP! There is a scary amount of information and smart people. I offer neither of those. I did however, just by 2 touchless (no spinning brushes) automatic (no people) car washes myself about 6 months ago, and can to some degree speak to the work and one method of purchasing that business. 

    I bought an existing business using an SBA loan. The business was well run, and the maintenance was kept up on. From what I have seen and heard in the industry, that is not all that common. I have gotten into a cycle of going to the car washes 4-5 times per week, usually for a couple hours per day. Each visit entails things like emptying garbage cans and checking on the building. Weekly I am usually doing something like mowing, pulling weeds, combining partially used soap containers, etc. Mostly mindless work, but things that need to be done. 

    It is not totally hands off, but does provide flexibility day to day and somewhat week to week. If I need to do something I can go to the car washes the next day or later that day. There are however problems that come up that need to be dealt with immediately. I have a couple people that live nearby that I can lean on if I am out of town. 

    Happy to answer any questions on this thread, or speak directly if thats helpful. BP as of now is a little light on the Car wash info. 

  • Loveland, CO · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Johnson, great advice! However, our primary residence is paid off... The rental still has a mortgage.  

    On the car wash business... this deal is to purchase 2 separate car washes in one deal, they are 2 auto touch free washes with 4 manual wash bays.  With my current plan, I would be the sole employee to run both of them.  I come from a highly technical/engineering background which I could fall back on to perform a significant amount of the maintenance and operation.  Where I am lacking is the financial side of this and am quickly learning up on how the business side of things work.  I definitely would not be treating this one as a hands-off business. 

    @Dave Carpenter, congrats on finding a fairly easy car wash deal!  So, does yours also include manual bays or just the 2 drive in touch free units.  If you don't mind, i'd like to pick your brain a little to get an idea on some more detailed info... car counts, avg per car, and maybe a little insight on how your SBA loan went. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy So I get that your primary residence is paid off. That doesn't prohibit you from taking out a mortgage on it. Nor does taking that new mortgage stop you from claiming the mortgage interest write-off from that new mortgage on your primary residence. If you're you're looking at tax benefits in the car wash I have no idea why you'd ignore potential tax benefits when it comes to your primary residence. Pulling the money out of the primary residence could lower the balance of the loan to buy this car wash (provide some of the start-up capital) and I'll go out on a limb and say the primary residence mortgage interest rate will be low and for a longer term than a business loan you'd need for the carwash (LLC or no LLC).

    You should also probably delineate what you mean by "mid 6 figures".  Some people would define that as $400K-$600K and others would define it as $140K-$160K.  If you make 1/4 of that in your job it makes a monumental difference if you're going to be managing car washes to offset 1/4 of $140K (~$35K per year) or 1/4 of $600K (~$150K per year).  

    And the most salient question you've yet to answer is "Why a car wash?"  Is it because it's what's for sale?  Why not a mobile home park?  Why not a parking lot?  Why not buy 3 Subway franchises?  Why not spend $2.5MM on an apartment complex?  

  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy mine is 2 auto bays at each location. 

    car count for me combined is about 30,000 cars per year. one is a bit higher than the other. One location is a "suburb" of Milwaukee about 30 mins away. The other is pretty well small town. Upside to small town is lots of guys that want to keep their big trucks clean, and are willing to pay for a more premium wash. Prices vary pretty significantly by location and what the wash offers. As one data point, I average about $10 per wash.

    My SBA loan went pretty smoothly after I got over the unique hurdle of conflict of interest since my seller happened to be on the board of the bank I was originally going to finance the loan with. After that got taken care of it was pretty straight forward. I used a 504 SBA loan since car washes are considered a somewhat unique property; at least compared to a small office building or small warehouse. From what I gather these SBA loans are common enough that there are banks that deal with them exclusively. Not much difference than any other governmental program. Lots of data required and plenty of forms. 

    Any other questions, let me know!

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy How far along are you in researching the car wash business?  I only ask as anyone bank, lending institution, private lender etc... would like to see that you are aware of what it takes to operate and sustain the business as you will be "owner occupant".  I'd suggest getting as much financial details from the owner and actually researching to ensure that what you are being provided by the seller makes sense.  We all know that sellers have a tendency to omit or skew numbers.  Just a fact of the business.

    Speak with other car wash owners in the area if you can to see what they are doing to maintain their business. Joining a local REI where there is a focus on commercial real estate will also help. Purchasing a property, placing a tenant in the car wash on a long term lease is one thing but owner/operating the business is something totally different. I'd be interested to know why the seller is selling at this stage, how long have they owned and whether or not the business is on a downturn. Time to play detective. You may want to leverage someone or ask the current owner to stay on for 12-18 months post closing in some form to assist with the transition. Regarding the financials, that's the relatively easy part of it. I'd suggest developing a relationship with a commercial lender(Get out the old phone book and start calling) who can fund this deal. If you like I have a national commercial lender that I work with. Perhaps you can pitch it to them to see if there is some interest.

    No matter how this particular deal works out, always remember to persist and you will WIN!!!

  • El Segundo, CA · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 48 votes
    9y
    why a car wash? are you trying to launder money for a meth business?
  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @David Carte That was waaaay left field. 

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Account Closed Great point on "buying a job" But if you think about it, when an investor buys residential(commercial or true residential) property and self manage, aren't they also buying themselves a job? Another thought that I have is the same way residential investors hire property managers I imagine he can do the same.  Lastly, to your last comment in your post, perhaps it's just passion.  Good post my friend.

  • Loveland, CO · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Man, talk about some great advice here... BP is living up to what I have seen so far for great advice. 

    @Andrew Johnson,  Since this is moving along to a more substantial conversation than I thought it would I will disclose a little more... Yes we are mid 6 figures like close to 500k/year... I am more close to 1/5 of that.  The reasoning behind not having a mortgage (paid off this year) or debt for that matter would be if something happened we could walk away from our jobs "free and clear".   The reason for me "quitting" my job to pursue something else would be to get me a bit more leeway with shuttling kids and being more active in their needs as they grow up... the wife calls it a "manny" job... Which I am fully on board with.  In-between my manny job, it would be nice to have a side gig as well.  Real Estate in Northern Colorado is crazy right now and I have considered getting a Realtor License but have also read that if you are just investing and managing that it's not that necessary if you can work a deal with a broker... Which I know a ton of...  

    I have been looking into real estate investing and commercial investing, this one just popped up this week and piqued my interest.  I am not dead set on the Car Wash and I am not selling meth on the side @David Carte... I do get the reference and loved Breaking Bad. 

    @Billy Khaliidi I wouldn't say car washes are my passion at all... Right now I am just feeling around for something to do and have always had interest in Real Estate... the car wash just seemed like an extension of that.  You have a very valid point about buying a job... If I would be doing rentals I would also be buying a job... granted, with the right properties, they would be less maintenance intensive than the car wash, i'm sure. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy For whatever it's worth, some the "tone" (dangerous to infer online) is along the lines of "I need something to do that will make some money but it doesn't have to replace the full $100K."  That seems like a phenomenally bad rationale to use to buy a 24/7/365 job.  You need to pick your kids up but someone has their car stuck in one of your bays.  What do you do?  Basically, it sounds like you're interesting because...well...it's an option.  Rather than a part of an "investment thesis" that you have on why car washes are a great business to operate/own.  

    I still think that at $400K a year it's lunacy to not have some kind of mortgage interest deduction for your primary residence.  It doesn't have to be an 80/20 mortgage, it doesn't even have to be a 30 year term.  At least talk to an accountant about it.  Especially if you're contemplating taking on a large debt level for a car wash, real estate, etc.  Odds are there's (to use a bad phrase) some interest-rate-arbitrage to be had.

    So maybe a logical next question: Why $2.5M for two car washes?  Why not $2.5M in plain, boring, apartments?

  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy so I am not a car wash person. In my previous life I did site design for a few automated car washes.  I learned a little about the business. The ones I did were full service. They had an automatic car wash and attendants. It was a full time business. I was told that after 4 years at the first location they bought and paid cash for their 2nd location ($400k in land and construction costs). Subsequently they paid a $1,000,000 just a water tap fee for a car wash at a 3rd location so there was money in their business. I do know a huge component of their business was the cost of water. The right to the water and the cost of the water used. My piece of advise would be to check with the water supplier and see if there are any rate hikes planned for their large customers. It's easy to raise the rates on large users that have no options and a small voice rather than raise rates for a large voting base. 

    Another thought is to value the water tap. So for example if you decided to convert the car wash site to McDonalds would you get a water credit since the water use would decrease significantly? If so how much and how would that be determined? Another option would be to see if you could sell the tap separately on the private market. In Colorado, water is also real estate and can be sold separately from the land. Taps can also be bought and sold but sometimes the entity serving the water controls it more and in doing so reduces the value. 

    As others have suggested, break apart the deal. Value the land, the water, and the business individually and make sure you are not overpaying for any of the parts. If you are, go develop the land and water and make your own business.

  • Orange County, CA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 24 votes
    9y
    @Aaron McCurdy We're in a similar financial position to your family minus the kids. Agree with @Andrew Johnson that you are crazy not to maximize your tax deductions through real estate debt, especially with low interest rates and am presuming stellar credit. In retirement, real estate will be pretty much your only available tax write for what I anticipate to be significant income when you combine ss plus your 401k and other investment streams etc. I look at my businesses as additional cash flow that help to accelerate my rei and do not count on that cash whatsoever to live. In fact, we try live on my partner's income (the smaller one, though our spread isn't quite as dramatic as yours) and invest mine in a combo of equities and real property. I would caution you to tread lightly and do lots of up front diligence before buying a commercial entity and quitting your day job. The two businesses that I bought were from people just like you, intelligent, reasonable, successful and got involved in an industry they know nothing about because it looked like a good deal. The businesses became unprofitable and burdensome, and I was able to capitalize by taking them of their hands at a discount. If you do invest in an unfamiliar industry, consider partnering with someone who knows the business. Or, perhaps the seller would be willing to stay on for 6 months at a salary (even if this puts you at a short term loss) to teach you the business. Find an accountant who has clients in that industry and have them go through the disclosed financials with a fine toothed comb. Also have them do their own business valuation. Don't pay for "goodwill" or provide key money or any other nonsense. Understand if the business isn't distressed in any way, just like in residential real estate, you're paying top dollar and it isn't a great deal. Also be aware, owning a business is not freedom. It is indentured servitude. Everything will happen. Pipes will freeze, people will break in, who knows, maybe a drunk driver will plow into the building. You will get middle of the night phone calls and you have to show up. I'm not trying to discourage you at all. This could be a great opportunity for you family. Just trying to set realistic expectations.
  • Loveland, CO · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Johnson:

    @Aaron McCurdy For whatever it's worth, some the "tone" (dangerous to infer online) is along the lines of "I need something to do that will make some money but it doesn't have to replace the full $100K."  That seems like a phenomenally bad rationale to use to buy a 24/7/365 job.  You need to pick your kids up but someone has their car stuck in one of your bays.  What do you do?  Basically, it sounds like you're interesting because...well...it's an option.  Rather than a part of an "investment thesis" that you have on why car washes are a great business to operate/own.  

    I still think that at $400K a year it's lunacy to not have some kind of mortgage interest deduction for your primary residence.  It doesn't have to be an 80/20 mortgage, it doesn't even have to be a 30 year term.  At least talk to an accountant about it.  Especially if you're contemplating taking on a large debt level for a car wash, real estate, etc.  Odds are there's (to use a bad phrase) some interest-rate-arbitrage to be had.

    So maybe a logical next question: Why $2.5M for two car washes?  Why not $2.5M in plain, boring, apartments?

    @Andrew Johnson

    Ok, again, I am very fresh at this whole "bigger pockets mentality" and I love the insight that you are providing. Talking about our Primary residence. We paid it off this year and prior to that we had a lengthy discussion on the pros and cons. The obvious pro was the interest write off. The loan was at 380k, punching that into a calc and looking at amortization shows that throughout the life of the loan we would have spent 275k on interest alone to get an extra ~4500/year back on the taxes... it seemed like that small return was outweighed by

    1. not having an 2000/mo payment,

    2. not paying the extra 275k in interest

    3. peace of mind of not ever having to worry about having a roof over our heads.

    So, I know you are probably going to look at this and tell me that I sound contradictory or it doesn't make sense to want tax write offs but then give up the best/easiest tax write off available to "most" people. I feel in this equation that we are not "most" people. We have a bright future ahead that includes a LOT of tax liability. In this case we are looking to secure our home as paid for and pursue another venture that may be a way to limit some of that tax liability.

    I don't know... Right now, all I can say, Andrew, is that your and everyone else's insight has been great and a real eye opener on how much we have to learn and also how many options there are.  The 24/7/365 business is not what I am looking for. This all originally started when we discusses getting into a couple more rental properties, getting them to a point that they pay for them selves and we add more equity to our portfolio. I know now, just from spending a few days discussing with you all that we have a long road ahead of soul searching and deciding what exactly it is that we are looking for. But most likely not the car wash business... That, sort of, got the ball rolling for me, though.

    I think I would be more inclined to go the 2.5M in plain, boring, apartments or shoot, what is that... like 6- $400,000 homes? one or two of which could be in our favorite ski resort towns... etc... 

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy Hey, pay off your mortgage if you want, it's no skin off my back :-)  My point is that you'd want that deduction precisely because you're not "most people".  I pay about 46% on every additional marginal dollar that I make thanks to California's glorious income tax.  So I look for every chance I can get not to pay the government.  I fully fund a 401K, put what's allowed into a Keogh, and try to take the "right" amount of debt on my income properties to offset the taxable operating income.   

    In your investment scenarios you're going to end up with sizable debt.  Car washing businesses, mountain homes, income property, whatever option you'd choose.  So far you haven't said "I'm just going to pay cash" for the mountain home!  Maybe you will, who knows.  So what you will be doing is exchanging the home mortgage debt for business/income property debt.  For the sake of round numbers most primary residence mortgage can be had for 4%  and business/income property/etc. mortgages are at 5% (I'm hearing 5.25% in some cases these days but let's round down).  If you're stuck carrying the debt (no matter what) you just have an easy option of carrying the first $380K at 4% and the balance on the income property at 5%.  If you don't do that, 100% of that debt is going to be at 5%.  So looking at the first $380K:    

    $380K @ 4% = $1,814 monthly payment

    $380K @ 5% = $2,040 monthly payment

    You're paying $226 (or 12.5% more) per month to have the debt sit with an income property rather than a personal residence.  So there you have it, the emotional value to you (taxes aside) of having a home mortgage paid off is $226/month.  If your emotional value is greater than $226 then you're in a great spot.

    Side note, I am a touch hypocritical as I carry about a 50/50 LTV on my mortgage. I *should* go out there an refinance even if the rate is higher. It's makes fiscal sense to do so and I do have a nice chunk o' debt on my 27-unit apartment building. It's not fiscally prudent, has nothing to do with a "bright future", has nothing to do with "A LOT of tax liability", has zero to do I'm "most people", it doesn't make sense on a spreadsheet, etc. I take the arbitrage loss as a trade off for emotional ease and I do it with my eyes wide open.

    If your eyes are open then there's absolutely nothing wrong with spending $226 per month to "buy emotional ease!"  :-) 

    Whew, I sound like a jerk today...   

  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy i think you have gotten a healthy dose of smart and super passionate BP people. Its a great thing, but certainly can feel overwhelming. The cool part is as you move forward these same people that are on this thread now will very likely jump in and answer specific questions that you have. That, or the questions will be already addressed on another forum.

    In an effort to get back to some information that might help you make the decision that you are faced with now. I would push back on the 24/7/365 aspect of either rental properties or car washes. While technically, that is true I have not seen much of that in my experiences. I have 4 duplexes and have never gotten the 2am call about a clogged toilet. The main reason for that is a decent property with decent renters. That has been a priority for me so that I don't get those calls. With regards the the car washes, very few people go through the car wash at 2am. Nearly all of my business is from sun up to sun down. Its hard for things to break if nothings moving. 

    Speaking to you family life, we have a similar story with 2 young (not in school yet) kids. I have found a healthy amount of flexibility in my schedule to allow me to spend time with my family. For instance, yesterday we were all walking over to the local park for a picnic and I got a call on my cell phone (google voice number) from someone at the car wash who put quarters in the vacuum, but the vacuum didn't turn on. I apologized, got her address and told her I would send her a check for the $1.00 she put in. Its a bit clunky, but I probably only get a call with a problem every couple weeks. So, 2-3 problems I need to take a call on per month, by 12 months = at most 36 calls per year with an average 30,000 cars washed per year. Seems like an ok percentage to me. 

    Shifting to the business side of things. When I got involved, I didn't know anything about car washes, but was able to work a deal with the seller (car washes sat on the market for over a year without for sale signs) to have him finance a small portion of the loan. The upside to this, is that he has a bit of incentive to see me be successful. He happens to be a great guy, which I learned while following him along at the car washes a few times while we were working on the deal. I would totally recommend working out some deal with the seller. Car washes have so many moving parts, and walking in blind would be VERY tricky. I have reached out to the seller with questions about the people to talk to for things, especially short cuts he has learned over the years. Another aspect to consider is because you don't just need to find a few tenants, you may want to buy a healthy business vs one that has gained a bad reputation over the past number of years.

    In summary, I think a car wash business could meet many of the needs you are looking for, and if cashflow isn't a huge priority, you may be able to find a couple people who could do much of the day to day aspects of the business and it could become pretty passive much like a property management company can make an apartment building passive. 

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy just keep pushing along my friend.  keep digging into this idea and the best way to approach this deal will reveal itself to you.  This community has given me tons of great advice.  Take it all with a grain of salt.  Always remember to persist and you will WIN!!!

  • Loveland, CO · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Again, thanks everyone for the great advice and words of encouragement... This really helps!

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Aaron McCurdy glad to see you've received some value here.

  • Investor · Goffstown, NH · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who participated in this post.  My husband and I are in the process of negotiating our first car wash and I was so grateful to have found a thread about it after searching on BP.  The ongoing operations will be my husbands baby (he's a mechanic by trade and has experience with car washes), but I'm very much on board due to the cash flow and long term investment aspects.  Unlike most car wash investors, my husband will run this as an owner occupied business.  Large commercial lots close to an ever-expanding interstate system will pay dividends down the road. 

    While many, many units in multis get me to the end goal, the exploration and research I've done around Commercial properties has me considering adjusting my portfolio goals.

    The goal is to get the car wash cash flow up and accelerate me leaving the "day job" to focus on my REI interests.

  • Golden, CO · Member since 2016 · 145 posts · 61 votes
    9y

    Hi Aaron, Greeting from Golden, CO.

    Your gut is correct, don't refinance your house unnecessarily. 

    Financing car washes or any other small business can be somewhat tricky especially if you are getting into an industry that you do not have direct experience. The underwriters I deal with are going to look at your "management" experience but running a car wash business is not rocket science. Invariably your related experience will be adequate and your good outside income will definitely help as well.

    I am not too far away from you and I have financed car washes previously. If I can provide any other insights in the financing, please let me know.

  • Dave CarpenterPro Member
    Investor · Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2013 · 439 posts · 150 votes
    9y
    Christine S. glad you were able to find some help on here! I just bought 2 car washes about 6 months ago and did the same research on BP. As you continue forward I'm glad to be of any help I can with my limited experience. So far it sounds like you guys are looking at this with the right eyes. Your husband having some mechanical knowledge will go a long way in the day to day management. I have found I spend less than 40 hours per week on mine at this point.
  • Glenview, IL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Aaron - I agree with you 100% about the mortgage deduction.  I feel like people are so used to repeating this that they don't actually think about it.  It is real simple - you get a *FRACTIONAL* tax break based off an interest amount you *FULLY PAID*

    Say your tax rate is 10%, you earned 100K in income, you would owe (and paid) 10K in taxes.  

    Let's say you had 5K in mtg. interest, you don't get the 5K back. 
    You pay less tax due to a lowered taxable income. 
    So... instead of 100K * 10% = 10K taxes, it is (100K - 5K) * 10 = $9,500 taxes.... 
    You "saved $500" in taxes, but you still paid a bank $5K in interest for a NET LOSS of $4,500 dollars.

    The deduction makes sense if you need the mortgage anyway, it doesn't make any sense to get a mortgage as a tax liability "protection" strategy.

    I was at he bank one time and their "premier client advisor" was trying to convince me that I should be buy a bigger house to "save on taxes" and I just had to laugh.  I then explained it to them and their reaction was interesting as I think they never actually worked through the numbers they were just trained to repeat that mantra.....

    *** NOTE *** After reading a few other responses, it seems that the suggestion was that if you were going to have the debt regardless, then pull some of it through the home to get the tax advantage.  That may make a little more sense *if* the rates work out, etc.  I think I'd keep them separate though since I would want the business to be independent of my house and stand on its own.  Just cleaner.  (no pun intended)

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