Is this a good or bad deal? Any advice would be much appreciated!

Is this a good or bad deal? Any advice would be much appreciated!

Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 2 votes

Hi BP community!

I'm a new investor in Southwestern Pennsylvania, I'd really like it if anyone could share some insight on what they'd do in my situation... Here goes!

The house is in Charleroi PA, a small town in Washington county. Depending on the part of the town you could be dealing with a C or D rated area, this particular property I think is located in the C rated category. I've run the numbers on the property and it looks like it could be a home run, but just like any new investor I'm struggling with the 'rehab cost' analysis & I am approaching this as a BRRR deal for now.

Here are my numbers:

Rent : $500 per month at the least per unit ( if I decide to convert into 2 separate units, more on that later)

Taxes: $700 per year

Insurance: $700 per year

All utilities Paid by tenants

Avg yearly maint/repairs: I'm going with $1200 per year, but i'm not sure if that is a good number to start with

I'd also pay for a home warranty: $600 per year

Now for financing, I'm working with the seller on seller financing. He has a Home equity loan where he pays $190 per month and he lives downstairs in the finished basement which is a separate entry from the 2 or potentially 1 unit above him. The outstanding principal is ~$25k and he has about 20 years left to pay on it.

Now some info on the property, the top 2 or 1 unit is completely gutted down to the studs. He started the project himself but he admitted he just stopped caring. He is approaching 80 years old and he just wants to help out a young buck like me try to make some extra cash flow.  I'm in between 2 options: Make 2 separate entries and have 2 separate 1 bed/1 bath efficiencies or finish the whole thing (2 floors) and rent it out. I'm thinking it could fetch $600 - $650 per month. 


One last thing, I'm not sure how long the man has left and he acknowledges this. How would I set this up so that if Lord forbid, he passes away while I'm thousands in to this thing?

Any help would be much appreciated!!!

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Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

@Vincent Filia It's nice that you want to improve someone else's property. You will end up with nothing out of this deal without a purchase contract. In your description it is a gut to the wall. You are only budgeting 25k for rehab on a 1300 sf home or less than $20 sf. $6 sf will be in flooring if they have rip out old. You better get some bids on cost to rehab. 

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  • Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia hard to give advice with the numbers provided.What is the PP, Rehab Budget, ARV. How much rent collected in each configuration. Time line to get each configuration. What is sf? What are using as vacancy,repairs, capex? As far as it goes if you use a loan to secure the property, you continue to pay whoever is the beneficiary.

  • Hunlock Creek, PA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 35 votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia Your last statement is what would worry me.  Are you planning to begin rehab before actually taking ownership of the property?

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Tim Herman I'm not sure what PP is? Purchase Price? I'm not exactly purchasing it, so from what I understand I'm not pulling any money out to purchase, unless I have that backwards lol.

    Rehab Budget on my end is probably $25k unless I can get someone to work with me on the deal. 2 efficiencies could get $500/month each and the 1 unit could get $650 per month. In my mind it would make sense if I was to do the 2 efficiency route is to finish one of the efficiencies & get it rented before starting the other upstairs efficiency. I'm not sure on time line to be honest. ARV depending on the route I choose (2 unit vs 1 unit) is $65K. Square footage is 1350 Vacancy is have at 8.33% of monthly rent and I just maxed out the repairs for my budget at $25k ( i'm a worst case scenario guy as I'm starting out)

    There is already that Home Equity loan on the property now, could I get another loan in my name?

    @Scott Pearson That's kind of what I'm trying to figure out how to do. I'm trying to under stand the ins and outs of this kind of deal.

  • Hunlock Creek, PA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 35 votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia I would not start working on it without ownership. Risk are too high. Who knows what the family will do when he passes. 

    Try to work a deal with owner financing and offer him a lifetime lease with no or small rent increases. 

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Scott Pearson Thank you Scott! Would the 'due on sale' clause come back to bite me down the road? I've heard that it may hurt people who are in a similar situation. Do you think a basic PA specific lease would do the job?

  • Hunlock Creek, PA · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 35 votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia now you are getting beyond me. I am a newbie myself with less than 2 months into this REI experience.

    I think a basic PA lease would be sufficient. I don’t know about the ‘due on sale’ clause. 

  • Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia It's nice that you want to improve someone else's property. You will end up with nothing out of this deal without a purchase contract. In your description it is a gut to the wall. You are only budgeting 25k for rehab on a 1300 sf home or less than $20 sf. $6 sf will be in flooring if they have rip out old. You better get some bids on cost to rehab. 

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Tim Herman Thank you for bringing things into perspective for me, I have a hard time with estimating rehab costs. The property is already gutted and there is not flooring, so it sounds like to me $25k for rehab is way under. Is there a price/sqft I should be following for my estimates? I know this estimate isn't fool proof but what would you suggest? I read somewhere that cosmetic rehab (paint, flooring, minor stuff, etc) should be around $15/sqft but I'm not sure if South Western Pennsylvania is the same when it comes to rehab costs!

  • Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia The best way is to get a contractor to walk the property before purchasing. Even with a contractor quote you will still need a contingency fund in case they find something else needs to be replaced.

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Tim Herman I've never thought of that! How would you get a contractor to walk the property with you without them feeling they're wasting their time? When you say contingency fund do you mean a savings account in case, lets just say, they find more problems while doing the work?

    Sorry, I'm really interested in soaking up any and all info!

  • Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia The first time you will have to pay the contractor to give an estimate. You will have to pay for an inspector to look at the property, which should be done first. There might be areas that need to be addressed and you would want to know the costs. A contingency is extra money that is accessible An extra 10% on top of the quote should be sufficient. 

  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Vincent Filia If I were in your shoes I'd walk away from this deal. 

    I'm not sure how much real estate experience you have but based on the numbers you provided (limited) and uncertainty of the exit you could make a BIG MISTAKE (at least $25K worth). Complicated deals lead to headaches and over spending. Make an offer to BUY the property, get back to the basics, or move on.   

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Tim Herman Thank you so much for the insight. All of this is valuable info & I'm happy I didn't pay a "guru" to find out.

    @Jaron Walling You hit the nail on the head, I am house hacking right now but that's the extent of my experience. I'm trying to get in and I'm leaning towards BRRRR more and more but I need to find a deal, capital is also a roadblock of mine but I'm working on that every day!

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