Brokers against Wholesaling & Lease Options. Why are you?

Brokers against Wholesaling & Lease Options. Why are you?

Professional · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2010 · 79 posts · 47 votes

Im the type of guy who likes to understand both sides of an argument. I recently have been talking to different brokers here in Maryland and I get what seems to be the same statement.

"We don't allow our agents to perform assignments of contracts or participate in sub-leases in creative financing because it's a huge liability without much return to the agent and company to justify the risk."

I even did a presentation to my broker (helped by Associate Broker @Karl Krentzel), presenting an example transaction showing proper disclosures & revealing my intentions to profit in the contract, and even doing a cma showing the seller their home value before negotiations.

Complete disclosure and acceptance by seller and Complete compliance with NAR code of ethics and Maryland law. If the Seller ever balks about it, they have nothing to stand on because we told them everything and even professionally told them what their house is worth in the current market.

End result? My broker still wanted their agents to have no part in assigning contracts and the such.

So I gotta know, 

Why are most brokers against their agents wholesaling and performing sandwich lease options?

Help me to see it from your side.

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Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 688 posts · 607 votes
11y

@Jerome Harrod II

This is why brokers are upset about wholesaling and creative financing. They think that everything you do as an agent should be run through the company, so they get to split the commission with you. If you do not go the traditional route, they don't get paid. It's that simple. And the "there's too much liability argument" holds no water. You as a broker/agent are required to disclose exactly what you said, if the seller accepts it and it's in writing they have no recourse regarding that because you went about it ethically and morally. They would rather you sell a $100,000 house and make $1,500-2,000 then wholesale that same house and make $10,000.

Here's the other factor that I just learned. The national board of realtors says that the seller has the right to market and sell the property. When you get the property under contract, you become the seller because you hold equitable interest, meaning you can market and sell that property legally, ethically, and morally. 

It just comes down to people are upset that they are not making money. As an agent and an investor myself, I am going to wholesale a house for 10k vs. listing a property and making a lot less just to split a commission with someone. 

any agent out there that has a broker like that just needs to pay the transfer fee to move to another firm

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Broker · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    Real estate professionals are usually covered by E&O insurance which clearly does not cover all kinds of real estate activities relating to personal investment. Brokers get worried dealing with the fine line between personal business and using the name of the brokerage to get ahead as an agent.

    Brokers will feel more comfortable if agents can properly address liability and how the brokerage can walk free from their private risky dealings. As long as agents conduct private deals in ethical ways that protect the public interest and not expose the brokerage to unnecessary trouble, we love to see them make money as well. A higher standard is expected of licensees. Review RESPA, COMAR, and your E&O policy.

    Are you referring to commercial or residential properties?

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    11y

    @Felix T. I believe is correct is that it is primarily an E&O insurance issue. As you may know nearly all E&O policies do not cover you if you are a principal to the transaction. So if one of the parties is going to sue, and E&O is not going to cover it...who is the individual going to sue? Not just the agent...but the brokerage too. It does not matter if the brokerage should be liable or not. Defending ones self costs money. It is merely not worth the risk to the broker when they have so many agents willing to work for them that do not want to be involved in such activities. The story might be different if you are a top producer doing 100 transactions a year for your broker and they are making considerable amounts of money off you.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Karl Krentzel is a great sales coach!

    @Jerome Harrod II

    Jerome you going to find it not impossible to find a boutique broker that will allow you to do personal deals that are not traditional listing deals.

    Not boutique name brands like Keller Williams, Caldwell Banker, Remax, er al 

    they have echelons of business advisors for the brokers, they get on the phone and talk to their legal department, and they don't have anything to do with your particular creative deal.


    You can get separate lawsuit protection if you go to a liability insurance broker on top of your E and O


    I coach subject to, lease option assignments , joint ventures with sellers on minor rehabs, Wholesale flips, etc.


    One my favorite books is SHIFT by Gary Keller Keller Williams, and chapter 10 talks about creative financing and helping the seller so with Lease options and wraps and so forth


    And Keller Williams unfortunately, sometimes depending on the broker,  doesn't want their agents doing any creative deals.


    So what do you do? 

    What you do is you call every freaking broker in your area and you put together a plan that protects the broker; 

    look into liability insurance on top of your E and O

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    11y

    @Brian Gibbons is right, there will be small boutique brokerages that will essentially let you do anything you want.  But do consider weighing how much you make for wholesaling vs your agent business...and how much have a brand name brokerage helps you generate business as an agent.  Every ones situation is going to be different. Maybe your agent business does not depend on the brand name, or maybe you can simply make more wholesaling.  But maybe the brand name does bring you significant business. Just make sure you weigh all the factors.

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 469 posts · 81 votes
    11y

    Hmmm...I know quite a few brokers who are investors so it doesn't seem to be out of the question, but as the previous gentleman noted, it's probably a concern about liability for the brokerage.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockwall, TX · Member since 2015 · 891 posts · 701 votes
    11y

    @Jerome Harrod II

    As others have stated, E&O insurance is a big reason for brokers to not support this type of activity. Lawsuits are never fun.

    I suspect that it goes deeper than that though. I used to be a big supporter of wholesaling and it sounds like you're doing things the way they should be done. With that said, after becoming a member of bigger Pockets and reading what a lot of wholesalers are actually doing, I find it difficult to support wholesaling and would not participate in assignment of a contract as an agent. 

    -Christopher  

  • Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 688 posts · 607 votes
    11y

    @Jerome Harrod II

    This is why brokers are upset about wholesaling and creative financing. They think that everything you do as an agent should be run through the company, so they get to split the commission with you. If you do not go the traditional route, they don't get paid. It's that simple. And the "there's too much liability argument" holds no water. You as a broker/agent are required to disclose exactly what you said, if the seller accepts it and it's in writing they have no recourse regarding that because you went about it ethically and morally. They would rather you sell a $100,000 house and make $1,500-2,000 then wholesale that same house and make $10,000.

    Here's the other factor that I just learned. The national board of realtors says that the seller has the right to market and sell the property. When you get the property under contract, you become the seller because you hold equitable interest, meaning you can market and sell that property legally, ethically, and morally. 

    It just comes down to people are upset that they are not making money. As an agent and an investor myself, I am going to wholesale a house for 10k vs. listing a property and making a lot less just to split a commission with someone. 

    any agent out there that has a broker like that just needs to pay the transfer fee to move to another firm

  • Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 688 posts · 607 votes
    11y

    Credit for that last post has to go to Michael Quarels. He covered this very same topic in his podcast Buy Sell Fix Flip. 

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

     A few comments, thoughts to ponder:

    Not taking away from your right to deal on your own behalf, personally investing, but what is you public duty as a licensee? You are a licensee 24/7/365, never a day off as a professional, as long as that license is active or you hold it. 

    Your first and foremost duty is to protect the public interest, that includes protecting other above your own self interests. Your next duty is to protect your principal as an agent. You do that by protecting the Broker's client, as an agent, buyers or sellers aren't "your" client, they are your broker's client!

    If you are flipping contracts, not taking title to the property, you are not investing by definition, you are operating, facilitating an exchange of title. 

    There is no difference in the end result of you facilitating a transaction for an owner as a wholesaler or as a Realtor, the only difference is in the paperwork you use. On this side of the horse, it's white, on the other side it's black, it's still the same horse.  

    Then the question, why use a wholesaling tactic when you can use a listing? Well, obviously, you think you can make more flipping the contract, than listing it. Whose interests are you putting ahead of your broker's client, their prospective client? What is in that owner's best interest?

    How is your service in facilitating a transaction of more value to the owner by wholesaling their property than listing it? If the owner is willing to accept a lower price, isn't the wholesale fee part of the equity held by that owner? Your commission comes from the owner as well, what makes you, the facilitator worth more to the owner by riding that horse on the side that costs them more? Do you really think that the difference in contracts or disclosures or your other marketing makes any valuable difference to a prudent owner? 

    If you look at the Fair Trades and Services Act, you will find that, basically, any service provided must be at a price that is usual and customary given the degree of competent services and relevant factors. What is it that you do by wholesaling that is significantly different from acting as an agent?  Nothing! From a legal and ethical point of view, costs for your services need to be in line with alternative services available. 

    Another issue for an agent is the "net listing" adventure you might go on, often regulators look at the end result, what happened, then back track through a transaction. Instead of using a listing agreement, you use a sale contract and assign it to effectively do the same thing as a net listing.

    Now, all of this is to flipping a contract. You avoid many of these issues when you take title, then you are the owner and you can pass title to a buyer, but that still has other implications if you have a big difference in the price you paid and sold at. Your broker probably won't mind if you take title, dust the place off and sell it.

    As to disclosures in real estate dealings, seems most are thinking if they disclose it, they can avoid it. Totally wrong and mickey mouse disclosures can cause more harm than good. Think of it this way, if I tell someone I'm going to break their arm and they say sure, then I break their arm, I'm still assaulting  that person, I still get arrested! No judge has to take your disclosure as a defense to you doing the wrong thing. My disclosing the fact that my intent was to break someone's arm is clearly established, I can't claim self defense now!

    Showing that you told an owner the property was worth $100,000 and then getting them to sell to you for $70,000, is pretty dumb really, the question then is.....what did you do to motivate a prudent owner to do such a thing? In fact, I would have to question the owner acting prudently and would question competence! It would then be up to that owner to defend what they did, not you......or, were you dealing with an idiot? What convinced that owner to sell for less, some fast talking market ploy that misled the owner? Who knows. 

    I suggest instead of trying to use glazing disclosures that you document the facts surrounding the transaction, show justifications as to significant price differences, that is CYA. Otherwise, a judge may see you as another guy who has a briefcase open, holding a pen toward the owner and wearing a mask.

    Listening to gurus or marketing guys who think they know legal aspects will probably get you into trouble.  Prisons are full of smart people. It is more important to follow the intent of the law than it is the letter of it in most cases. Investors and especially licensees that attempt to devise methods of circumventing the law and accepted practice are simply dangerous.  

    Thoughts to ponder :) 

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Devan Mcclish:

    @Jerome Harrod II

    Here's the other factor that I just learned. The national board of realtors says that the seller has the right to market and sell the property. When you get the property under contract, you become the seller because you hold equitable interest, meaning you can market and sell that property legally, ethically, and morally. 

    It just comes down to people are upset that they are not making money. As an agent and an investor myself, I am going to wholesale a house for 10k vs. listing a property and making a lot less just to split a commission with someone. 

    any agent out there that has a broker like that just needs to pay the transfer fee to move to another firm

     I agree that brokers have a financial motivation.

    You are totally misguided thinking equitable title, equitable interest is the same as the ownership rights to title which are required when offering good title to real estate through any advertisement. If you're an agent, open up your old text book and refresh yourself as to the bundle of sticks, title rights and interests. Wholesalers need to offer the contract, not the property! Don't know where you heard that from the NAR, but I can tell you the NAR doesn't make laws.

    Your last paragraph is predatory from gouging a price for your service if you aren't taking title. I know, you posted while I was typing. 

    Agreed, if an agent has that attitude, they really do need to move on. :)  

    Edited: Yes, personal transactions that don't run through the broker are not covered, yet, he still has "vicarious liability" for anything real estate related that an agent does, you also carry that broker's name, good will, reputation with you everywhere as long as your license hangs there, it doesn't matter if you are acting in your own interests, you're still dealing with the public. :)

  • Professional · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2010 · 79 posts · 47 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

     A few comments, thoughts to ponder:

    Not taking away from your right to deal on your own behalf, personally investing, but what is you public duty as a licensee? You are a licensee 24/7/365, never a day off as a professional, as long as that license is active or you hold it. 

    Your first and foremost duty is to protect the public interest, that includes protecting other above your own self interests. Your next duty is to protect your principal as an agent. You do that by protecting the Broker's client, as an agent, buyers or sellers aren't "your" client, they are your broker's client!

    If you are flipping contracts, not taking title to the property, you are not investing by definition, you are operating, facilitating an exchange of title. 

    There is no difference in the end result of you facilitating a transaction for an owner as a wholesaler or as a Realtor, the only difference is in the paperwork you use. On this side of the horse, it's white, on the other side it's black, it's still the same horse.  

    Then the question, why use a wholesaling tactic when you can use a listing? Well, obviously, you think you can make more flipping the contract, than listing it. Whose interests are you putting ahead of your broker's client, their prospective client? What is in that owner's best interest?

    How is your service in facilitating a transaction of more value to the owner by wholesaling their property than listing it? If the owner is willing to accept a lower price, isn't the wholesale fee part of the equity held by that owner? Your commission comes from the owner as well, what makes you, the facilitator worth more to the owner by riding that horse on the side that costs them more? Do you really think that the difference in contracts or disclosures or your other marketing makes any valuable difference to a prudent owner? 

    If you look at the Fair Trades and Services Act, you will find that, basically, any service provided must be at a price that is usual and customary given the degree of competent services and relevant factors. What is it that you do by wholesaling that is significantly different from acting as an agent?  Nothing! From a legal and ethical point of view, costs for your services need to be in line with alternative services available. 

    Another issue for an agent is the "net listing" adventure you might go on, often regulators look at the end result, what happened, then back track through a transaction. Instead of using a listing agreement, you use a sale contract and assign it to effectively do the same thing as a net listing.

    Now, all of this is to flipping a contract. You avoid many of these issues when you take title, then you are the owner and you can pass title to a buyer, but that still has other implications if you have a big difference in the price you paid and sold at. Your broker probably won't mind if you take title, dust the place off and sell it.

    As to disclosures in real estate dealings, seems most are thinking if they disclose it, they can avoid it. Totally wrong and mickey mouse disclosures can cause more harm than good. Think of it this way, if I tell someone I'm going to break their arm and they say sure, then I break their arm, I'm still assaulting  that person, I still get arrested! No judge has to take your disclosure as a defense to you doing the wrong thing. My disclosing the fact that my intent was to break someone's arm is clearly established, I can't claim self defense now!

    Showing that you told an owner the property was worth $100,000 and then getting them to sell to you for $70,000, is pretty dumb really, the question then is.....what did you do to motivate a prudent owner to do such a thing? In fact, I would have to question the owner acting prudently and would question competence! It would then be up to that owner to defend what they did, not you......or, were you dealing with an idiot? What convinced that owner to sell for less, some fast talking market ploy that misled the owner? Who knows. 

    I suggest instead of trying to use glazing disclosures that you document the facts surrounding the transaction, show justifications as to significant price differences, that is CYA. Otherwise, a judge may see you as another guy who has a briefcase open, holding a pen toward the owner and wearing a mask.

    Listening to gurus or marketing guys who think they know legal aspects will probably get you into trouble.  Prisons are full of smart people. It is more important to follow the intent of the law than it is the letter of it in most cases. Investors and especially licensees that attempt to devise methods of circumventing the law and accepted practice are simply dangerous.  

    Thoughts to ponder :) 

    Wow That was a lot to take in and a couple comments I have an opinion about , but You have effectively educated me on what a Seller could stand on if they come to sue. If I could edit my original post I would.

    Thanks for being awesome!

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
    Originally posted by @Devan Mcclish:

    @Jerome Harrod II

    Here's the other factor that I just learned. The national board of realtors says that the seller has the right to market and sell the property. When you get the property under contract, you become the seller because you hold equitable interest, meaning you can market and sell that property legally, ethically, and morally. 

    It just comes down to people are upset that they are not making money. As an agent and an investor myself, I am going to wholesale a house for 10k vs. listing a property and making a lot less just to split a commission with someone. 

    any agent out there that has a broker like that just needs to pay the transfer fee to move to another firm

     I agree that brokers have a financial motivation.

    You are totally misguided thinking equitable title, equitable interest is the same as the ownership rights to title which are required when offering good title to real estate through any advertisement. If you're an agent, open up your old text book and refresh yourself as to the bundle of sticks, title rights and interests. Wholesalers need to offer the contract, not the property! Don't know where you heard that from the NAR, but I can tell you the NAR doesn't make laws.

    Your last paragraph is predatory from gouging a price for your service if you aren't taking title. I know, you posted while I was typing. 

    Agreed, if an agent has that attitude, they really do need to move on. :)  

    Edited: Yes, personal transactions that don't run through the broker are not covered, yet, he still has "vicarious liability" for anything real estate related that an agent does, you also carry that broker's name, good will, reputation with you everywhere as long as your license hangs there, it doesn't matter if you are acting in your own interests, you're still dealing with the public. :)

     Post of the Month!  Buy sub2 , get on title, and resell.

  • Real Estate Broker · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2012 · 410 posts · 337 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jerome Harrod II:

    Im the type of guy who likes to understand both sides of an argument. I recently have been talking to different brokers here in Maryland and I get what seems to be the same statement.....

    End result? My broker still wanted their agents to have no part in assigning contracts and the such.

    So I gotta know, 

    Why are most brokers against their agents wholesaling and performing sandwich lease options?

    Help me to see it from your side.

    My Thought?

    Probably because you are mixing up terms, etc. I will leave the argument as to whether or not agents are agents 24/7 alone (*it is ridiculous.  By that argument's logic, agents should NEVER invest in real estate on their own.  Which is patently absurd*)

    My thought? Tell your next broker (KW, or Realty Executives) that you are intending on investing on your own as well as listing and representing buyers etc.  Understand what the company policy is, and follow it.

    Now, the company policy will not cover assignment of contract because it is not a "investment" like a traditional home flipper would have. You are simply selling paper. E&O Will not cover an assignment.

    So all those who say agents needn't invest because of some supposed duty to "Protect the Public"need to go back and read fiduciary rules of engagement so to speak.  You ONLY have a duty to protect those who you are the fiduciary to... You have a OBLIGATION to be honest with everyone else.  BIG difference.

    Move on to your next broker... you've been talking about this for at least a week. You could have sold something by now.  Stop screwing around and wasting time with people who will not support your goals. 

    In other words, Toughen up... you can do this.. you know what to do, so get moving!

    Have a Powerful Sales Day! 

    Karl

  • Real Estate Broker · Bowie, MD · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jerome Harrod II:

    "We don't allow our agents to perform assignments of contracts or participate in sub-leases in creative financing because it's a huge liability without much return to the agent and company to justify the risk."

     So what I don't understand is, brokers are stating that they don't support creative financing because of the risks and whatnot, but yet, it's covered within the real estate pre-licensing course. The first thing I did when I sat down with a brokerage firm was explain my expectations...I plan to invest, I plan to use creative financing, because there is a huge market we are leaving out by not implementing it, and I plan to specialize in win-win solutions (again using creative financing)... if the brokerage could not agree and support my objectives, I would not agree to align myself with a brokerage that I will be paying some of my income yet subjecting myself to lose money due to abiding by their scared rules. Remember you are interviewing them just as much as they are interviewing you. Happy learning, living and investing!

    Stephanie

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Stephanie Dobbs

    That was well said! When you buy something as a principal has nothing to do with the brokerage. It's important to get a statement if you're going to do a principal deal and you're the principal buyer or lesse or optionee or vendee but there's no money do the brokerage because you're not acting as a fiduciary agent and you are acting as a for-profit business person

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Karl Krentzel:
    Originally posted by @Jerome Harrod II:

    Im the type of guy who likes to understand both sides of an argument. I recently have been talking to different brokers here in Maryland and I get what seems to be the same statement.....

    End result? My broker still wanted their agents to have no part in assigning contracts and the such.

    So I gotta know, 

    Why are most brokers against their agents wholesaling and performing sandwich lease options?

    Help me to see it from your side.

    My Thought?

    Probably because you are mixing up terms, etc. I will leave the argument as to whether or not agents are agents 24/7 alone (*it is ridiculous.  By that argument's logic, agents should NEVER invest in real estate on their own.  Which is patently absurd*)

    My thought? Tell your next broker (KW, or Realty Executives) that you are intending on investing on your own as well as listing and representing buyers etc.  Understand what the company policy is, and follow it.

    Now, the company policy will not cover assignment of contract because it is not a "investment" like a traditional home flipper would have. You are simply selling paper. E&O Will not cover an assignment.

    So all those who say agents needn't invest because of some supposed duty to "Protect the Public"need to go back and read fiduciary rules of engagement so to speak.  You ONLY have a duty to protect those who you are the fiduciary to... You have a OBLIGATION to be honest with everyone else.  BIG difference.

    Move on to your next broker... you've been talking about this for at least a week. You could have sold something by now.  Stop screwing around and wasting time with people who will not support your goals. 

    In other words, Toughen up... you can do this.. you know what to do, so get moving!

    Have a Powerful Sales Day! 

    Karl

    This is plain sickening! Unprofessional, obviously you have NEVER been an owner BROKER, you passed the broker's exam, BIG DEAL! Yes, I looked up your record at the RE Commission. That means you probably never sat in the position of carrying E&O for a company!

    You have never been an "Owner Broker" you have no clue as to the liability involved.

    Does your broker really know that you just turn your license on and off as it suits you as to your self dealing?    

    Maybe that's what you did, moving around from broker to broker, looking for one who allowed such an attitude, I have no idea why you moved so much.

    Plainly, you're a marketer, not grasping what a professional is. Go ahead, be cool, post more funny pictures, seems you use a library of them. I've never seen you give any solid RE advice on BP, just constant self promotions under the radar to advance your guru coaching. 

    You're just dangerous IMO! 

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Stephanie Dobbs:
    Originally posted by @Jerome Harrod II:

    "We don't allow our agents to perform assignments of contracts or participate in sub-leases in creative financing because it's a huge liability without much return to the agent and company to justify the risk."

     So what I don't understand is, brokers are stating that they don't support creative financing because of the risks and whatnot, but yet, it's covered within the real estate pre-licensing course. The first thing I did when I sat down with a brokerage firm was explain my expectations...I plan to invest, I plan to use creative financing, because there is a huge market we are leaving out by not implementing it, and I plan to specialize in win-win solutions (again using creative financing)... if the brokerage could not agree and support my objectives, I would not agree to align myself with a brokerage that I will be paying some of my income yet subjecting myself to lose money due to abiding by their scared rules. Remember you are interviewing them just as much as they are interviewing you. Happy learning, living and investing!

    Stephanie

     Absolutely true, and there is nothing wrong with that! Nothing wrong with "creative financing" but that is NOT wholesaling. There is nothing about wholesaling that is "creative financing"! There is nothing wrong with a Realtor acting as a principle investor unless you're screwing over the public. :)

  • Real Estate Broker · Bowie, MD · Member since 2014 · 242 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brian Gibbons:

    @Stephanie Dobbs

    That was well said! When you buy something as a principal has nothing to do with the brokerage. It's important to get a statement if you're going to do a principal deal and you're the principal buyer or lesse or optionee or vendee but there's no money do the brokerage because you're not acting as a fiduciary agent and you are acting as a for-profit business person

    Thanks!! Exactly!

  • Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    You want our business and many of you troll this place looking for business.  Then you want to hamper a really small part of investor business.  A lot of people don't like agents for that. We don't start threads saying use a discount broker.  Leave politics out of this. Investor business is way small compared to retail.  It's a niche.  If your griping about making money try retail. A lot of the guys pay full retail.  I guess this a way to pay them back I don't know. 

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I hear that doctors don't like the guys on craigslist that offer plastic surgery in their basement.

  • Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 23 votes
    11y

    Also there is the expertise involved in investing.  First off most agents don't know the first thing about investment property.  Seasoned investors have way more knowledge and must know way more about a myriad of subjects than any agent.  Repairs and subcontracting which agents don't know.  They really don't,  they have know what it takes to get the house to close of course.  They don't know anything about rehab the vast majority of them.  Not in their course.  That's just one item.  If you think your everyday realtor understands rehab don't be misled they don't.  There is really no point in getting an agent involved in a rehab for me anyway.   Unless its necessary.  

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Devan Mcclish  your drinking the anti broker cool aid and your comments are not even close to being correct.

    IN some states maybe but in many states no way...

    its really simple buy the property and resell it... find a broker who allows you do your own transactions.. that's simple enough .

    @George Allen  generally speaking your correct.. although just like any industry there are RE brokers who are very good at sizing up rehab and flipping.. they just generally don't work with the no money no credit wholesaling crowd  LOL.

    I know many that are very very good at it.. and I work and fund them to the tune of millions of dollars a month.. so I know they are out there. and sheesh I is one myself. I am a broker and I build new homes and I am a principal in at least 100 plus rehabs a year.

    But your correct most agents that work for what I would call a retail buyer and seller its not their forte to be looking at beat up houses that stink and such... it would mess up their Jimmy Choo's ...

    This is were many who think they need to wholesale and think being a broker is foolish really lose sight of what a RE career is and can be.. I know many many top agents around the country that make far more than wholesalers will ever make and have lifelong careers.  there are far less wholesalers that make big money than there are agents that make big money.. and for most its  a very short career wholesaling when you figure out how tough it is and sporadic the income is. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    @Jerome Harrod II

    The answer your broker gave you sums up my feelings on it.

    The juice doesn't outweigh the squeeze.

    "We don't allow our agents to perform assignments of contracts or participate in sub-leases in creative financing because it's a huge liability without much return to the agent and company to justify the risk."

  • Real Estate Broker · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2012 · 410 posts · 337 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
    Originally posted by @Karl Krentzel:
    Originally posted by @Jerome Harrod II:

    Im the type of guy who likes to understand both sides of an argument. I recently have been talking to different brokers here in Maryland and I get what seems to be the same statement.....

    End result? My broker still wanted their agents to have no part in assigning contracts and the such.

    So I gotta know, 

    Why are most brokers against their agents wholesaling and performing sandwich lease options?

    Help me to see it from your side.

    My Thought?

    Probably because you are mixing up terms, etc. I will leave the argument as to whether or not agents are agents 24/7 alone (*it is ridiculous.  By that argument's logic, agents should NEVER invest in real estate on their own.  Which is patently absurd*)

    My thought? Tell your next broker (KW, or Realty Executives) that you are intending on investing on your own as well as listing and representing buyers etc.  Understand what the company policy is, and follow it.

    Now, the company policy will not cover assignment of contract because it is not a "investment" like a traditional home flipper would have. You are simply selling paper. E&O Will not cover an assignment.

    So all those who say agents needn't invest because of some supposed duty to "Protect the Public"need to go back and read fiduciary rules of engagement so to speak.  You ONLY have a duty to protect those who you are the fiduciary to... You have a OBLIGATION to be honest with everyone else.  BIG difference.

    Move on to your next broker... you've been talking about this for at least a week. You could have sold something by now.  Stop screwing around and wasting time with people who will not support your goals. 

    In other words, Toughen up... you can do this.. you know what to do, so get moving!

    Have a Powerful Sales Day! 

    Karl

    This is plain sickening! Unprofessional, obviously you have NEVER been an owner BROKER, you passed the broker's exam, BIG DEAL! Yes, I looked up your record at the RE Commission. That means you probably never sat in the position of carrying E&O for a company!

    You have never been an "Owner Broker" you have no clue as to the liability involved.

    Does your broker really know that you just turn your license on and off as it suits you as to your self dealing?    

    Maybe that's what you did, moving around from broker to broker, looking for one who allowed such an attitude, I have no idea why you moved so much.

    Plainly, you're a marketer, not grasping what a professional is. Go ahead, be cool, post more funny pictures, seems you use a library of them. I've never seen you give any solid RE advice on BP, just constant self promotions under the radar to advance your guru coaching. 

    You're just dangerous IMO! 

    Calm Down Bro...

    You are full on mad.  Actually... YES.. I have been a Broker Owner.. so I DO know what it's like.  Hence my reason for being an ASSOCIATE Broker...  

    Super scary though that you would "look me up".. kinda stalkerish...

    Check it out though.  If you want to call my broker about this.. you are more than welcome... He, and I, and our company attorneys spend several hours and thousands of dollars to ensure that I could do this legally.. and exactly how. 

    Truth be told.. I was the FIRST one at my office when it started, and have been there ever since... I've been an owner when it was small, and sold my interest off when it got big... to this day.. my license still hangs there.

    If you want my broker's number... I'm sure you can call him.  His name is Jeff Murtaugh..  Broker of Realty Executives Tucson Elite... Google it, if you haven't already. LOL.. But dude.. seriously.. you need to calm down in a big way before you have a heart attack!

    Peace out brother...

    oh..yeah.. I forgot!

    Have a Powerful Sales Day! 

  • Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 23 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Devan Mcclish  your drinking the anti broker cool aid and your comments are not even close to being correct.

    IN some states maybe but in many states no way...

    its really simple buy the property and resell it... find a broker who allows you do your own transactions.. that's simple enough .

    @George Allen  generally speaking your correct.. although just like any industry there are RE brokers who are very good at sizing up rehab and flipping.. they just generally don't work with the no money no credit wholesaling crowd  LOL.

    I know many that are very very good at it.. and I work and fund them to the tune of millions of dollars a month.. so I know they are out there. and sheesh I is one myself. I am a broker and I build new homes and I am a principal in at least 100 plus rehabs a year.

    But your correct most agents that work for what I would call a retail buyer and seller its not their forte to be looking at beat up houses that stink and such... it would mess up their Jimmy Choo's ...

    This is were many who think they need to wholesale and think being a broker is foolish really lose sight of what a RE career is and can be.. I know many many top agents around the country that make far more than wholesalers will ever make and have lifelong careers.  there are far less wholesalers that make big money than there are agents that make big money.. and for most its  a very short career wholesaling when you figure out how tough it is and sporadic the income is. 

    Nice you know that and you know most Brokers care more about retail than investor stuff.  It's to complicated. To complicated for their agents.   Their focus is on the larger market.  If things dampen they may look at investor.  But its a small segment of the market and won't make them a living.  So they focus their efforts rightly elsewhere. They pretty much ignore it and if something happens by well. It happens.  To me its not good telling an agent unless they are pursuing investing which would surely raise the brokers eyebrows very high.  That they can make money in this small segment.  If you have a really hot investor yep.  Otherwise retail is where its at for the agent.  

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