Our buying agent is incompetent - need input
Rental Property Investor · Destrehan, LA · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 9 votes
Our buying agent is incompetent - need input
Most Popular Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ voteswell its your investment you need to take charge of this.. dont blame it on the realtor..
what did the sellers disclosure document thats required by law say ???
its come to light prior to closing which is a good thing.. but end of the day its your responsibility.
Sellers lie all the time..
what did the sellers disclosure document thats required by law say ???
its come to light prior to closing which is a good thing.. but end of the day its your responsibility.
Sellers lie all the time..
38 Replies
- Real Estate Agent · California/New Jersey · Member since 2020 · 29 posts · 14 votes5y
@Jay Hinrichs
Hi Jay! I hVe to disagree with abortion of your statement. Yes, ultimately everything is the buyer's responsibility once they sign off. However, a good agent helps the buyer with every step of the process and makes sure the buyer understands everything involved. One of my licenses is in CA and the agent is responsible for so many legal aspects of the transaction that we make sure to cover EVERYTHING! We also use out team to help out. I would have my title person research the permits for the buyer or see if there is anyone on my team with experience that could help the buyer gets answers quickly and in time before the contingency periods expire. Hold the buyer's and sellers hands until the transaction is complete and then some! My opinion.
- Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
I completely agree
- Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Matt M.:
@Lynnette E.
If you are just buying a house, and a bathroom was added or an addition was put on without a permit, how the f can they go after the buyer/new owner for back taxes and penalties etc?!
In 2005 I built onto my house (at the time), fully permitted. Inspector came for the rough framing/roof/etc. never came again. Not for electrical, insulation, drywall, I called him 3x at each step. He showed up for the final c.o. When it was all done. He had no idea if I did it right or not. If a buyer is skeptical and no permits pulled or whatever, move on.
The government seems to attach taxes to the property, not to the owner. Yes, they will go after the property for taxes even if the owner changed. And title insurance will not cover it. Been there with my parent's rental in LA County, CA. They used an over head photographic view to show that a patio was added without a permit. They said it was added in the 1970's and made the claim in the late 1980's. Fortunately my dad had photos and was able to show that it actually was added in the 1950's and permits were not required for block construction patios back then.
But they did not let up until it went to court. They not only wanted the taxes, they wanted penalty and interest. And...to make it better, my dad was able to show that when the patio was added in the 1950's the taxes of that property went up $2 compared to the other cookie cutter houses on the block, so the taxes were paid for the patio. Nothing owed. Only possible through paper hoarding record keeping! The patio was put in the year before my dad bought the house. He took photos of the property when he bought it. They showed the patio.
I do agree that the permits are a money making scam. I got a new roof and a new hot water heater, with the required permits in San Bernardino County, they never came to the house to see any thing at all for either permit, just collected the money and when I called and said I wanted the signed off permits they even mailed them to me. No visit at all.
In LA County, CA I had to get a building permit for replacement windows. They actually send out a jerk. He measured every room and every window to make sure that the window size was in the correct range, big enough to give light to conserve energy, but small enough to not waste HVAC energy. Also made sure that all glass within maybe 5 feet for a door was made out of safety glass, and then once it was completed that the egress windows in bedrooms opened to the size required for egress. Everything was fine...but we wasted 2 days with him measuring and calculating. Wish he did not show up.... Plus everything he did was already approved by the planning folks before they sold the permit.
- Real Estate Agent · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote5y
The realtor is not incompetent, it is outside of the scope of responsibilities. Realtors get sued for less, like opinions.
- 5yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I would call the town, as far as a septic to sewer conversion no way that was done without a permit. How else are they going to start sending you sewer bills, how else did the construction crew tap into the sewer main? What you probably need to verify is whether it is on sewer. If not that is a misrepresentation by the seller and that is a problem. As for the relator let her know what is important to you as a follow of course talk to the broker if you feel she is not representing you well but that doesn't do anything for you in this purchase.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes5y
@Pamela Gondeck I fail to see the point and purpose in the drama of arguing with or about the realty agent when what matters, as you said is "We already knew from the inspection that there was some sort of defect in the sewer pipe that was pumping sewage from the lift pump under the deck/house". Does it matter what your agent finds or dosn't find at this point? You know the seller intentionally hide this material defect, in 1 way or another, so what point is coming at the agent?
You need to first address what matters most, the transaction in process. Get informed, make a decisions, execute.
Then, next is to accept your responsibility in all of this. That's right, it's absolutely your fault, or at least that's the mindset you must have if you want to be anything more than a hobbiest at the whims of fate. You are the investor, the Executive at helm of the ship, and with that you must accept accountability and responsibility for the executive management of your entire operational nd all staffing under your management. Only thru that means can one improve, adjust, change the future.
I totally get where your coming from, I have empathy, yet your allowing it to "own you" and act emotionally going forward, a recipe for disaster. Yes, the agent failed, note it and learn from it going forward but do what matters and let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Gregory Tapscott:
@Jay Hinrichs
Hi Jay! I hVe to disagree with abortion of your statement. Yes, ultimately everything is the buyer's responsibility once they sign off. However, a good agent helps the buyer with every step of the process and makes sure the buyer understands everything involved. One of my licenses is in CA and the agent is responsible for so many legal aspects of the transaction that we make sure to cover EVERYTHING! We also use out team to help out. I would have my title person research the permits for the buyer or see if there is anyone on my team with experience that could help the buyer gets answers quickly and in time before the contingency periods expire. Hold the buyer's and sellers hands until the transaction is complete and then some! My opinion.
I dont disagree but now that the issues are known to me its simple inspections..
And keep in mind out here on the west coast we have FAR more information available through out customer service or developers services from our title companies all for free.. those that work in attorney states there is no help from them other than legal and closing they don't have developer services etc or digital land records and title plant at their computers.. Most agents just are not versed in full scale rehab permitting other than the basics.. and of course some are far better than others. and more experienced. And CA leads the nation in mandated disclosures LOL.. I am taking my continuing ed just this morning for my CA RE brokers license that I have had since 75..
One more time is all I need once I hit 70 i never have to take continuing ed in CA again unless I guess they change the laws on that.. so one advantage of being an OLD Broker.. :)
- Real Estate Agent · Santa Rosa Beach, FL · Member since 2021 · 16 posts · 4 votes5y
@Pamela Gondeck I live and work in the neighboring County. After hurricane Michael you are going to be hard pressed to find a home that doesn't have work that was either completed with no permit, by unlicensed individuals, or some mix of circumstances.
I own a business in the construction industry that serves Bay County and have seen a lot over the years. With that being said, I have not seen an insurance company do anything to a homeowner. I have seen the County shut down unlicensed individuals though.
Wish you the best.
- Rental Property Investor · Los Gatos, CA · Member since 2017 · 123 posts · 131 votes5y
@Pamela Gondeck
I never expect an agent to give us input or advocate for us. When they do we will listen to them but asking an agent how to spend and protect our money would not make me comfortable. We always expect to have to do the agents job and when we don’t, we are stoked. More often than not agents are pushing deals for a commission and unless there is some type of gross negligence there’s not much that we can do. Any issues always falls on us as we are not first time homebuyers and not new to the game. At the end of the day there are a select few great agents, when you find one you’ll know it.
Take charge and bring the deal home or maybe you’ve found a negotiation point to get a better price.
- Realtor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2018 · 139 posts · 90 votes5y
Have you gotten through DD? Was this on the disclosure?
- Rental Property Investor · Destrehan, LA · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 9 votes5y
@Chad Carrodus
They lied on the disclosure and said there was no unpermitted work done.
That’s where I’ll be going back to in order to cancel the contract if they don’t rectify it. I got the broker involved and she’s on it. She agreed her realtor was out of line.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes5y
Are there really people out there that believe the majority of homes in the USA haven't had a ton of unpermitted work done in them over the years? Figure out what the problem is through the inspections and determine if you want to move forward with the sale, back out or renegotiate based on new information discovered. It's really that simple.
- Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes5y
@Pamela Gondeck believe it or not I actually came across a similar issue last summer with a property I was representing the buyer on. Sewer scope determined the line from the property actually connected to the storm water drain at the street instead of a typical city sewer line. No records of a sewer tap or permit being pulled or anything when the property was switched from septic when the city sewer was extended to this neighborhood (in the 50's, still rural at the time but now part of Denver metro and completely developed).
The seller didn’t disclose anything and claimed this was all news to them. I helped my client make decisions based on info we got from the city, but he did most of the due diligence talking to them and figuring out the situation. Through extensive research he eventually found out that the city sewer line didn’t go in front of the property, but instead went around the block. Connecting to it would require closing down the road for a day or two, trenching up the street a few hundred feet and reconfiguring part of the city sewer line then repairing the street. We got rough ballpark quotes ranging from $75k-150k.
Luckily, the city agreed to write him a letter saying that the way it was connected would be grandfathered in considering the sewer line never actually made it to the property. I think having him take ownership of the problem and figure it out (with my consultation but not direct involvement) was the correct division of labor considering the circumstances. Him talking directly and building rapport with the city officials likely lead to the favorable resolution. I think it would have been asking a lot for any agent to invest that kind of time knowing there was a good chance the deal could fall through.
I’m sorry that your agent wasn’t as helpful as you’d like, but I also think it might be unfair to question their competence based on a situation like this that clearly falls outside the scope of a normal transaction and isn’t typically an agent’s responsibility. In my case I was happy to negotiate to extend the inspection period, ask for a concession from the seller given the circumstances, handle the inspection objection paperwork and negotiations, advise my client based on the info he was able to uncover etc. but I was glad he did the heavy lifting on the due diligence side mostly because it isn’t a situation anyone has a playbook for. Ultimately it would be on him whether he wanted to move forward with the deal or not so I was glad he was getting the info straight from the city and that I didn’t have to take on the time and liability of relaying all that info to him from them.
If I were you, and assuming you still want to see the deal go through, I would take on the responsibility of figuring out what the deal is with the property (by hiring a local sewer guy with a lot of experience, talking to the city, getting whatever info you can out of the seller via the agents, etc.). I wouldn’t expect your agent to be able to find a sewer tap permit that might not exist, to know the history of that specific sewer line’s construction, or to be an expert in funky sewer lines.
It’s great to find an agent that goes “above and beyond” for their clients but on the other hand it’s also important for agents to recognize when something is beyond the scope of their expertise. Agents also have to be careful about their own liability and look at everything as if it will be repeated in a courtroom. They should be helpful in advising you on the best way to negotiate and move the deal forward given the info you’re able to uncover. They should also be able to help you find a qualified professional to look at the issue and provide quotes for any necessary repairs, manage contingency deadlines, communicate well with the selling side etc. but I wouldn’t be too hard on them for not readily having all the answers in a situation that might not have a clear answer.
If the property is too funky for you/the price isn’t right given the funk factor, you may need to make the call to move on and that’s a call the agent isn’t going to make for you (they obviously want to close the deal). The property described above was a $3M commercial property by the way, and definitely a special deal. If it had been a lower value asset with less potential profit, my buyer probably wouldn’t have invested all that time and effort into figuring out the screwy sewer.
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