Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
i have a corner that has rotten wood due to long term leak (years). the bottom of 5-6 two by fours are rotten and the bottom plate is rotten.
the outside is brick, so i can't get to it from the outside. how do i replace the bottom plate and the vertical studs with new wood before i sheetrock?
i can post a picture of the studs without drywall if needed. the corner is in a closet.
Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
11y
At the risk of sounding trite... if you have to ask this question, you need to hire a good carpenter to do it for you and maybe watch what they do.
But the simple answer is that you remove the sheetrock, support whatever needs to be supported, remove the rotted members, replace, and then take down the temporary supports.
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Ryan R. At least this is your own personal home and not some house you flipped to a poor, unsuspecting homeowner.... :)
Account Closed
Question for you. In the post from @RyanR that I voted on (Feb 05, 01:10 PM) what specifically would be the improper repair method? I ask only because I want to understand. I had a less severe issue recently with a property in Garner. I pulled permits(*) and have had it fully inspected. My work was not as substantial, but I effectively replaced what was rotten with new (although untreated lumber) framing equivalent. That seems like what is in the picture, along with sistered framing 2x6s. The inspector was fine with the repairs. We did have temporary support beams (multiple 2x6s) in place at the time of the inspection... but obviously took them out afterwords.
(*)Full permits including licensed electrical, plumbing, mechanical (HVAC) and inspections covering framing, insulation, etc.
Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
11y
@Tim Bishop You're right Tim, treated isn't really proper here, but I guess it's all subjective.
The house is pier and beam and there have been some moisture issues in the crawl space before. There was also slight termite damage here and there. And this was on an exterior wall, which has the highest grade point on the exterior of the house (lowest point to dirt). Add in that this was a shower, and it just felt good to put in treated.
As mentioned, the treated was well dried; I sleep good at night about it.
Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2015 · 58 posts · 23 votes
11y
@ryan r Depending upon the size and configuration of the house, the shear loading at the corner of a residential structure can reach a couple thousand pounds of force with a design wind loading in most of the U.S. In FL or CA, it can be much higher. A common rule of thumb is that an 8 penny nail has a shear strength of 50 pounds. That's why it's so important to have full length wall studs between the top and bottom plates.
I have no problem with non-professionals doing their own work. But their work should be of professional quality. It really does not cost that much more in time and materials to do it right. And even if it does, so what?
Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
11y
Hey @Account Closed why don't you post some photos of some actual jobs you've done and then I'll tell you why your work isn't professional. Your website has 3 pictures of your work. Is that all you've done as a professional?
As someone already stated, they performed the same type of repair and it was approved by a building inspector. And as I already stated, if the damage were to a larger percentage of the wall than just a few feet, I would probably recommend a different solution.
Real Estate Investor · Fenton, MI · Member since 2008 · 946 posts · 153 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Art Allen:
I have no problem with non-professionals doing their own work. But their work should be of professional quality. It really does not cost that much more in time and materials to do it right. And even if it does, so what?
I have a brick ranch where the walls also have mildew like the picture on the first page. it actually looks remarkably like mine. The walls are plaster so it will be some trouble to take down the wall. Do I really need to knock out the plaster to inspect the studs? I really am not sure why the mildew is on the wall.
Real Estate Investor · Visalia, CA · Member since 2014 · 22 posts · 7 votes
11y
Hi George P, Rosendo, First according to Uniform Building Code(U.B.C.) an you can not splice a structural member as you did,that would not pass here in California, the splicing material must go beyond the point of splice 2 feet on both sides of cut/ butt joint, it must be able to take the down force of the building, earth movement and wind shear, the best way is to splice the stud onto the bad stud and nail off into the existing damaged stud 16D sinker nails 2 at top and bottom and stitch the two stud together, toe nail in place with 8D sinkers, have you ID the reason for the damage? that looks like water damage, the floor is cool and all the work you did is fine, pier blocks? did you check to see if your top plate/ceiling is level in all directions , this type of damage can have other unseen problems so take care to make sure you are level also if you have any hole bored into the studs you must use a nail stops at the those points.... good luck and happy fixing....some sagging may have accrued even small and you need to address that issue, just because the stud have rot, and the studs are just hanging there does not mean that everything is fine, don't cover up problems, fix them , liked that I saw pressure treated material, good job , Rosendo
Construction/Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 6 votes
11y
@George P. Take a look at the varying opinions/approaches you have received here...this is exactly why it behooves you to bring in one or more qualified professionals, licensed, bonded and insured, who will pull a permit and go on record as having done the proper work and stand by it with his/her money.
Just because the wood is rotten and not supporting anything does NOT make it safe and negligible. In fact, on an outer wall, which is carrying quite a bit of load, it may be beguilingly accessible. Also, keep in mind, you are placing quite a bit of trust in the builder(s) who have preceded you. There is no guarantee everything is built to handle what you are expecting it to. Finding out with a live body and money can be regrettable.
As far as sistering the studs, what is the incremental cost for using a properly sized stud in dollars and time? Are you really saving that much and is it worth the risks? Not for me. I can see leaving as much of the old stud as possible because the facade is attached to it (and it provides more surface area for interior wall hangings), but I prefer a continuous stud from the top plate to the bottom plate. Be certain to use a moisture barrier between the bottom plate and concrete, and even consider a pressure-treated bottom plate.
As far as messing around with the facade, I have not yet worked with one personally, so I would work with a pro first to learn more before I begin tackling it solo. That's one of those things that when it goes wrong, it probably goes big.
Our philosophy is that there is the right way(s) to do something, and varying degrees of the wrong way. Ultimately, everything comes down to someone must pay now or pay later. Many real estate investors I've met are so married to their numbers that in spite of loads of great advice, they are still going to do what they wanted to do. That said, I wish you and all subsequent users of that property the best.
Construction/Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 6 votes
11y
BTW, my apologies for being redundant. I replied at the bottom of the first page of comments and didn't realize there was an entire other page to this feed. My thoughts have been expressed by others ahead of me.
Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
11y
@Account Closed is correct... the pictures with the spliced stud do not show a correct repair. The new structural members need to run floor to ceiling in order to property carry the roof load. This makes the repair IRC compliant (IRC does not allow for spliced studs)
Also, the studs shouldn't be pressure treated... a PT stud will warp, twist, and shrink as it dries, causing finish work issues and potentially other problems. [Only] the bottom plate should be PT if it is on slab or in ground contact.
I stand by my original recommendation... temporary bracing... remove rotted elements (preferably in their entirety)... new structural elements... remove temporary bracing.
... and the more I think about it, yanking the stud, or putting in an entirely new stud (even if you were lazy about it and left the rotted one), is actually less work than the tedious task of cutting the bottom off the rotted stud, piecing in a new stud, then sistering a section in (as shown in the pictures on page 1)... that's a whole lot of cuts, nails, and measuring to get a subpar outcome. I guess I just don't follow the logic of doing it that way.
Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
thanks for the input, much appreciated. i will talk to the contractor, but my goal is to cut the bottom plate off, install a new one, then run studs from the new bottom plate to the top plate next to the existing (some rotten) studs. all PT materials will be used since that's not much extra cost.
i subscribe to Mike Holmes suggestion "do it right the first time". i just dont like his disregard to cost during the repairs. :)
thanks for the input, much appreciated. i will talk to the contractor, but my goal is to cut the bottom plate off, install a new one, then run studs from the new bottom plate to the top plate next to the existing (some rotten) studs. all PT materials will be used since that's not much extra cost.
i subscribe to Mike Holmes suggestion "do it right the first time". i just dont like his disregard to cost during the repairs. :)
PT is for contact with concrete or exterior use. Use the correct material, don't try to reinvent building science based off a tv personality.
Many DIYers don't know the difference between 'miss-built' and over built, like the guy doing his own drywall and had about 100 screws in each sheet, with 99% of the screws over driven. The massive amount of extra screws (because more is better he said) didn't correct the issue of them all being over driven. The minimum requirement of 35 screws correctly installed on a 4x8 1/2" sheet of drywall on a 16" framed wall, is far superior than miss-screwing 100 screws in the same sheet. There is just no reason to re-invent the wheel, building science is well established.
Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes
11y
I agree with @Aaron McGinnis and others on the use of PT lumber. One also shouldn't rely on "Liquid Nails" alone to attach sheathing nor should one use Travertine in a shower.
@Mark Forest You probably have or have had a roof leak. You probably will have to remove some plaster to see what's going on inside the wall. You might be able to see by just removing the base trim and looking at the bottom plate and stud bottoms.
Rental Property Investor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2014 · 415 posts · 272 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@George P. Do you own a Sawzall? That's the tool you need.
The brick veneer greatly complicates things; this is not a trivial repair. The brick is attached to the wall with ties and you can't just undermine or eliminate them frivolously.
Also consider an oscillating saw. It's much better than a reciprocating saw where access is restricted. In this case you might use a reciprocating saw to cut most of the way through the studs, but you don't want the tip of the blade banging against the bricks or other framing. An oscillating saw lets you cut straight into the material with almost no clearance and cleanly finish a larger cut made with another saw.
Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
thanks for all your help. I hired my roofer that was looking to stay busy and told him how to do it. he sistered everything and changed the bottom plate.
the plates were sitting on 2 x4s but sitting thin side up. never seen this. they were good. now drywall is up and looks like new.