BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
I'm looking to get bids for a rehab project in my house, and as such, have sought out general contractors.
I contacted 6 contractors over the past 3 weeks. Of these, 5 have come to get the scope of the project and all have spent nearly an hour walking through and going over details with me.
1 has responded with a bid and I'm still waiting for one to come today.
The guy who is supposed to come today was scheduled for 10am, but called after 9:30am and told me he couldn't make it until 11:30am or so.
I've been waiting for over a week on several of these bids, and it has been a few days on another.
So, essentially, as far as I'm concerned, the one guy who responded with a bid within 3 days and the guy who came out on Wednesday are the only guys worth consideration (unless I don't get a bid from the latter soon), but the former's numbers were very high. I take living up to appointments very seriously, and the guy who is supposed to come today is has already dropped on my list for wasting my entire morning.
Maybe my expectations are a little off here . . . oh - by the way, every one of these people has been recommended by someone - some from people here on BP and others from people I know.
How long should it take for a contractor to get back to you with a bid?
Is this my bad luck, or are the rest of you seeing this same sort of lackadaisical attitude towards getting hired by contractors?
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Par for the course, Josh...
We routinely have about a third of the contractors who come out to give bids never get back to us, despite driving long distances to see the job, spending a lot of time walking through and taking measurements, etc.
I don't understand it, but I appreciate the bad contractors weeding themselves out... :)
Btw, my rule is that if a contractor shows up to give a bid more than 15 minutes late without calling, we don't even bother talking to him. If he can't show up on time when he's in sales mode, he certainly won't show up on time once he gets the job.
Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
15y
How is the general market for real estate and this kind of work where you live? Could be a sign of the times that these guys are getting busy; bad for you, but good for the local economy.
I know here in the Atlanta 'burbs I put construction of a small pool house up for bid, and I had guys tripping over themselves to get the job, even though it was not very big. They all showed up on time, and they all had their bids in on schedule.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:
...
How long should it take for a contractor to get back to you with a bid?
Is this my bad luck, or are the rest of you seeing this same sort of lackadaisical attitude towards getting hired by contractors?
...
How long it takes depends on the scope of the job. The more things being done, the more they have to price things out so they'll take more time.
Some contractors are only looking for "easy money" - jobs that aren't too time consuming. If you have more to be done than they want to bite off, they simply say pass. Some are just too busy to bother if the job is being bid in a competitive manner - they don't want to waste time coming up with a bid when they're already busy and then finding out they lost the job.
As far as missing the appointed time, sometimes life happens. Did he get a flat tire? Did he have some other dire emergency to deal with? Did he explain? Did you ask?
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
15y
Something to add: You have to establish when you want the project completed, so you can guesstimate when it needs to start, and so that you can set the deadline for the bidding to be completed. And if they are taking what seems to be too long, you will have to follow-up to get their bid's status, especially if it is a bigger job.
Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
This is pretty typical. GC's are some of the worst businessmen ever.
It is possible that the way you are presenting the job may make it appear to them that you will demand too much in too short a time or seem unrealistic about costs, so they are scared off. But a legit GC should tell you if that is the case, not just ignore you.
About all you can do is work off recommendations and hope for the best. Check Angie's List or Yelp.
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
15y
Let me add that this is not a big project, and is slated to start immediately upon acceptance of a satisfactory bid.
Paul - Each of the contractors who came and spent close to an hour with me explained that they were going to be available within my time restraints. It doesn't sound like they are just too busy.
Steve - If I need to follow up with a businessman so that he can get paid for undertaking work, I don't believe that he is qualified to do the job for me. Maybe it's just me . . .
Eric - All have told me that the job is a small one that should be quite easy to accomplish within a short time frame. Each has told me about their time constraints and all have expressed the ability to commence within a few weeks at most. In terms of costs, I never expressed any limitations on budget or any specific numbers that I had in mind. I was waiting to see bids before making any assessments.
Real Estate Investor · Dania Beach, FL · Member since 2010 · 74 posts · 41 votes
15y
Hi Josh,
Having worked in the construction business here in South Florida where there are hundreds of GC's, I have seen that the more you know about the business i.e. codes, contracts, bidding processes, permits, schedules, and so on the more likely you'll see the reputable ones come to the forefront and deal with you in a professional manner.
There are tons of GC'S that'll look at you as if you're a "live one" and ripe for the taking. If you know your stuff, and I'm sure you do, you'll find the right fit.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Par for the course, Josh...
We routinely have about a third of the contractors who come out to give bids never get back to us, despite driving long distances to see the job, spending a lot of time walking through and taking measurements, etc.
I don't understand it, but I appreciate the bad contractors weeding themselves out... :)
Btw, my rule is that if a contractor shows up to give a bid more than 15 minutes late without calling, we don't even bother talking to him. If he can't show up on time when he's in sales mode, he certainly won't show up on time once he gets the job.
Flipper/Rehabber · Mentor, OH · Member since 2011 · 121 posts · 51 votes
15y
Josh as a general contractor my rule of thumb is to have the estimate to them in two business days. (larger jobs) If the job is small enough I will quote it on site or that night. The two days gives me time to get up to date pricing and to "sleep" on the given price to make sure I am comfortable with the amount. After giving the quote I usally call back in two days to see if there are questions and/or would like to schedule the job. If I do not get it I send a Thank you letter and a business card in case haha
Next time ask the contractor when the bid will be delievered I always tell my customers when they can expect the bid and whether they want to recieve via email or phone call or both.
I would begin your search again bc the contractors you got where either scared away or do not take their company serious which means they do not take their work serious. I would use either using angies list, servicemagic or yelp.
Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
15y
The guys who get the bids back really fast are always going to have a high price because they are going to overbid for the little stuff they dont want to take the time to add up. The guys who take a really long time are really busy or lazy. If they were really busy they would have someone who did the bids for them.
The guys who show up on time are always the best. It is always nice for guys to call to confirm the day before.
Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
15y
You say the job was small - how small was it, exactly?
Many of the contractors I know are avoiding small jobs right now because overhead is very high and few people really want to pay what is needed in order to make the job profitable for the contractor on small jobs... especially the guys who are competent and can get longer-term, higher-paying work.
Case in point, I know a good all-around guy who absolutely won't crank the truck right now for less than about $250. Got a light socket needs replacing? Sure, but it'll cost you $250 to get it done.
So I guess what I'm saying is - if it's a small job that is of the sort that goes, "Bring every tool you own so you can use each one of them for 15 minutes each", the guy may not be real interested in doing the work.
Solution? Keep calling folks out to bid the work until you find one who is up to your quality standards, but still starving enough to want to do a smaller job.
Loss Mitigation Specialist · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 12 posts · 0 votes
14y
Well this morning I had HVAC guy tell me it would be at least 3 weeks before someone can come out for a bid and they wouldn't be able to start the job till at least November.
Denver is booming and it's hard to find good contractors, but I can't wait till November to get heat.
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
14y
Originally posted by Joshua Dorkin:
If I need to follow up with a businessman so that he can get paid for undertaking work, I don't believe that he is qualified to do the job for me. Maybe it's just me . . .
I totally agree. I've found that the MAJORITY of contractors in any trade will not even return phone calls. If they do, some of those still won't want to come out.
The ones that answer their phone, or respond promptly to a message, and then keep their promise to come out and are on time always earn my business. Even if they are a little more expensive. I figure a little more paid for a RELIABLE contractor is money well spent compared to a UNRELIABLE contractor who will cost me in time, delays, and possibly having to push back other scheduled work.
I have no tolerance for flakes or for people who waste my time. If a contractor flakes on an appointment with me, there will not be a second opportunity to set up an appointment.
The way I look at it, if their customer service is that bad BEFORE they get the job, you can bet it'll be even worse AFTER they've already got the job
Involved In Real Estate · Columbus , OH · Member since 2010 · 68 posts · 23 votes
14y
Par.
Many (most?) contactors that I work with are not really business men. They are laborers that own their own job. I work with one contractor that is very good at what he does but his bidding and billing is a disaster. He works 10+ hours a day and then goes home and try’s to do paperwork in the evening. Needless to say it usually gets put off when he gets home. I have found I just need to keep calling him to get the bid. I don’t like it but if he is good at his job I will live with it.
If I have to decide between a carpenter that is good with his hammer and saw and one that is good with a spreadsheet, I will take the craftsman.
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
14y
Joshua Dorkin I'm sorry you're having such a hard time finding a reliable contractor. If it is a large remodel, and the contractor has other jobs going, one week is reasonable, to be able to check out the job, price things out etc. If it's a handyman type job, 1-2 days.
When you make the initial call, explain that you have a job, and give them a short description. Tell them what your time frame for getting it done is. Ask if it will fit into their schedule. Also, ask if they charge for estimates (we never do, but some people do) Next, set up a time to have them come and look at the job. (If you can schedule all the contractors in the same day or two days, it will help make it less time consuming for you) Once they look at the job, if you think they're competent, etc., tell them you'd like for them to give you a written bid. Tell them that you have a few others bidding the job, and will be making a decision on a specific date, and you need all bids to you by that date, but you definitely will be hiring someone. That should solve the problem for you.
Right now, every rehabber on the planet is calling licensed contractors to try to get free bids for lenders, or find out what actually needs to be done on a property before making an offer. Unfortunately alot of the contractors are really struggling; and just covering things like gas, etc. add up when done enough times, so they lose their enthusiasm.
On a different note, I think the best policy is to always be upfront. If someone isn't going to hire the contractor, they should be honest, and offer to pay for the service. If a person is actually hiring a contractor, the contractor is usually happy to give an estimate and try to compete for the job opportunity.
That said, there are always contractors, realtors, lenders, etc. that give the rest of us a bad name. That's how it goes. On the spec house we are building I've called several different roofing contractors, sent them plans etc., and have yet to be able to get one to give me a bid, though they promise to get it out quick! It's crazy! I guess in So Cal that's how some people do things.. where we moved from, far northern California, people were much more reliable. I'm with you Joshua, I always feel that your word is your bond. Say what you mean, and mean what you say!
Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 75 posts · 47 votes
13y
Joshua Dorkin I just created a similar thread and found yours via a search. I hope you were able to end your frustration and found a contractor.
The one thing that kept going off in my head -- if these guys struggle to manage and handle their business, there must be a huge void in the market for a quality contractor. Where there is pain, there is opportunity.
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
I've run into the same problems. I don't know if these guys are lazy, afraid of work, or too busy. It baffles me that they would spend all of this time and money to attract a customer and then not do the job.
I had a guy refinish hardwood floors for me in the past that did a great job and charged $1.50 per square foot for natural finish. This was a fair price and we were both happy. He wasn't licensed. (I don't care about a license). He also didn't have any insurance, but I have workman's comp.
Last month, I had some hardwood floors to be refinished. I called my usual guy and his phone was disconnected. I was now at square one. I called a guy that was referred to me. He literally phoned in a quote by having me measure everything and he priced it over the phone. He wanted $1.80 per square foot. Too high in my opinion. He also wanted so much for the steps, that his quote might as well have been a dickdillion dollars. I wasn't paying it.
I now had no other choice but to turn to CL. That is where I found the first guy who did excellent work, so I hoped for the best. The first guy who actually showed up to quote the job looked like a grave digger. His price was $1.55 per square foot. No problem there. The problem was with his measuring. It was fuzzy math. About 120 square feet came out of nowhere. It also turns out that he would need to rent the machines even though he had "lots of experience" and had done "hundreds of jobs" and used to do wood floors for a "company that bought houses in the ghetto and fixed them up." He then wanted $300 up front to go rent the equipment and buy the supplies. I sent hiom on his way.
The second guy that showed up arrived in a BMW. I thought to myself, "That's a nice car, but I don't want to help him pay for it." He was wearing fancy shoes. He didn't look like a contractor at all. He didn't measure anything. I thought that was weird. He made a bunch of comments about how whoever refinished the floors the last time had done a bad job. I agreed. Since I had just purchased this house, I wanted them done right. After looking at everything, he said he would get back to me with a price. He never did.
The next guys to show up were a couple young brothers who claimed they had done floors since they were kids. They gave me a price of $1.50 per square foot, had their own equipment, and agreed to be paid in full when the job was done. I hired them.
After the first day, there was heavy whining that the job was "bigger than they thought" and they really "underbid it". Not my problem. They came up with the price. Not me. After sanding the floors and getting them ready for poly, it turns out they didn't have enough money for the rest of the materials. No problem, I paid them some money because if they split, I was still money ahead for all of the work they had already done. They ended up finishing and did a great job. I told them I would have more work for them and would be calling.
About a week later, I had a tenant move out. The floors had been refinished six years ago and looked like they could use a screen and coat. I called this guy and he said he would be out in the morning, give me a quote, and do the job right then if the price was good. He never showed up.
Back to square one. It would almost be easier to do the work myself if I had the time, knowledge, and equipment.
Contractor · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2012 · 351 posts · 196 votes
13y
I dont have any answers for ya, but I will share a few thoughts on the subject.
I think it has alot to do with how people are wired... What they are motivated by. Obviously, it isnt difficult to find people in this day and age who are money motivated. Nothing wrong with that... We all are money motivated to a certain extent. However, I would bet my bottom dollar that every successful investor here is motivated by much more than the profits. Even tho many may start out simply looking to leverage their money into big profits, along the way something greater brings them the satisfaction and fullfillment that drives them to continue learning and finding great deals. Its no different for contractors.
I chased the almighty buck for years, running crews and hustling for work. It did nothing for me but give me headaches. It was so difficult to find employees who wanted to work. They all wanted a paycheck but would just as soon sit home and collect it. Once they learned enough to fake their way thru, they wanted to strike out on their own. They saw the dollar signs and the illusion of freedom that running your own business poses. Those without a strong work ethic and who are not driven by the satisfaction derived from producing quality work and making customers happy, chase the easy buck. They figure that if they get in the truck and leave the house every day, they are working. Movement doesnt necessarily equate to progress. The human mind/ego is amazingly adept at rationalization to keep us from recognizing our faults and weaknesses.
I can see a hack coming from a mile away. They tend to talk alot about how good they are, apparently feeling the need to sell themselves. Some are just plain arrogant and act as though they would be doing you a favor by doing the job for you. In my experience, rarely is ones level of competence equal to their level of arrogance. False pride is generally a mechanism of the ego, built to protect them from the harsh reality of their own inadequacy.
Psycho-babble? Yeah sorry! Cant help it.
A contractor worth hiring is one who...
... Doesnt advertise because even in the worst of times has all the work he can handle thru word of mouth alone.
... Kicks his shoes off even when you tell him not to worry about it.
... Doesnt need to tell you how good he is because he has nothing to prove. His work bears it out every day. You will know him by the questions he poses to YOU. He will want to ascertain whether you want it done right ot not. He will try to determine if you are willing to spend the money to do it right. It wont be about his profits, rather about the materials and time it takes to produce quality that will last the test of time.
... Has a sense of humor. A good sense of humor is an indicator of intellegence. It also indicates a desire to interact on a human level and build a good working relationship. If he enjoys making people laugh, he likely enjoys making people happy thru the quality of his work and service as well.
... Includes a comprehensive estimate that lays out a payment as just another one of the phases of the job. He needs to get paid but doesnt want to have to ask for it. He wants the work he does to be the focus... Not the money.
The good ones Ive met and worked with all seem to be a bit on the eccentric side. Artist, creative, and not necessarily good at the business end. Very few of us are good at all aspects of the job. And we dont all have a business that will support hiring others who are strong in areas we arent. So dont discount someone simply because they arent waiting at the door for ya. I dont care much for going to the dance, but once Im there I can boogy like there is no tomorrow!!
I hope this helps with some of the things to look for in a good contractor. I know it has to be one of the most frustrating things you deal with. I would just recommend that once you find one, do what it takes to keep him. First, he needs to know you appreciate all he brings to the table. Second, if you can show him that appreciation with greenbacks, he will likely be as loyal as the day is long.
Rochester, NY · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes
9y
I reside in Western NY and I've had similar problems to you....not just on one project but on a laundry list of projects. I have gone as far to facilitate getting bids as to put together small binders with the specifics of materials and examples so there is no question as to what I want the end result to look like. I have had contractors come out and explained that I am getting bids on several projects all do be done within the next 12 months and that I am juggling the start dates based on the bids. The work is both inside and out and to date it hasn't mattered what project combination or even for a single project. I can't get timely responses. I had two people from one major company come out to bid extensive outside projects: deck and fencing; closet, bathroom, entry area. They told me two weeks. After week three I called both. The fencing guy called me back and finally forwarded a bid and now I'm still waiting as they arrange the financing...it's been 3 days for something I know takes less than 30 minutes from start to completion in the presence of me over the phone with EnerBank. The interior guy has never even called me back. He is the third contractor to be asked for a bid. The first guy took almost 2 weeks and the bid is high for both the closet and the bathroom. I have been trying to get bids for an exterior firepit area built with outcropping stone for a year. Here I sit yet again waiting for someone who said they would come out this week to view the area. We already selected boulders from him and gave him a detailed drawing of the specs. I don't know how easy you can make it for these folks. I'm disgusted and even more so because I was a contractor for two decades. Is it the times? It's not that they are so busy that they can't take 30-40 minutes at some point during a day to price out items that have already been detailed for them and include their labor. It's not rocket science. I sent out bids within 24-48 hours.
Real Estate Agent · Miami, FL · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 5 votes
9y
@Joshua D. finding/managing contractors is my least favorite part of this business (even more than tenant problems!). The best contractor I've found, and the one I always find myself going back to, doesn't advertise. I found them through a chamber of commerce website.
Developer · Covington, LA · Member since 2017 · 224 posts · 124 votes
9y
Boy this is an old thread, but being a builder/contractor, I thought I'd add my two cents. To begin @Joshua D. were you looking for a contractor or a sub contractor? That is, I am a contractor who builds houses, while the plumber I use is a sub contractor who plumbs those houses. As a full-time spec builder, I keep my subs quite busy. Most of them will not even consider taking on rehab work or smaller jobs simply because the new construction I provide and that from other contractors/builders fills their plates.
On another issue, dealing with subs is a pain in the ***. As several have pointed out in earlier posts, most subs are laborers who have set out on their own. Some make the transition better than others, but rarely will I find a sub sporting an Ivy League degree and breeding. These guys work hard, but are trades first and business people second.
Dealing with them, at first, was a bit of a culture shock, coming from a banking and management consulting background. I know I sound like a snob, but it was simply a matter of adjusting my interpersonal communication skills. If you talk down to subs, or deliver your professional expectations the same way you would your accountant, you are going to have a hard time finding good subs. Likewise, if you cannot provide steady work, or needle them constantly about schedules, you'll be left with the subs you don't want.
I spent roughly 6 months in Jamaica on a consulting project in an earlier life. The Jamaicans had the saying "soon come" when asked of the timing for completion of a task. I was awed by how casual they could be in terms of time management. Since shifting my career to construction, I find often subs abide by the same time management principles. In the end, you can be patient and accept "soon come" (within reason), or you can be pissed off and live a miserable life. I chose the former.