Rental Property Investor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2021 · 128 posts · 38 votes
Hey BP,
I'm considering buying a duplex with a completely gutted upstairs unit. With a bit of framing, it could easily be a two bedroom unit. What is the danger of just doing it? Does anyone have experience with this?
@Sergey A. Petrov the fact of the matter is a lot of experience investors don't pull permits.
Maybe, maybe not.....but you don't know the prices they pay for not doing it right. If you are going to cheat, just make sure that you are really smart about it because the penalties can be very severe and could cost you a good portion of your investment dollars......
Some cities are very serious about code enforcement and permits and some aren't. The danger of doing the work without a permit could get you into some trouble depending on the city. In some cities here they will fine you per day, stop any work that is going on and then come inside and require you to update/repair more than what you intended on.
You might want to ask around in the city you have the duplex and see how bad code enforcement is. Permits here run you from $150-250. You also might want to think about if you plan on throwing away any building materials ... that is good way to tip of code enforcement that your doing work.
worst case I actually saw, home owner built a new brick house in his back yard without a permit. He got caught, it was on a fairly busy street, with traffic and visibility. The city would not give him an occupany permit, as nothing was permitted. He tried everything, with no sucess. He even offered it to the city as a polling place, twice a year and they would not budge. The zoning didnot permit more than one house per lot and the lot was too small to be subdivided. The house still sits there never occupied years later.
There is no rational reason to not get a permit. They are inexpensive and easy to get for a project like you mention.
As others noted, you can get shut down, red-tagged, and fined. That's not worth it right there....
But another reason that most don't consider is this: when you go to sell the house, if the buyer or their agent sees a new looking area (bedroom/bathrooms/kitchen/etc, they may/should call the local municipality and ask for a permit history. No recent permits? Then that living space gets devalued by 50%. I lmpw tjis to be true because I've seen it happen many times working as a GC doing home inspections. Now this may not happen to you, but is it worth the risk?
this should not even be a subject to discussion. call the city or have your contractor call the city, find out what the permit requirements are and comply from there. the issues may be non-existant (unlikely) or astronomical - you won't have a buyer when you sell, your insurance will deny your claim because your property is out of compliance, your tenants will sue because something wasn't done to code and someone was injured, the list goes on.
I am considering never stopping at a red light. What is the danger of doing this? Any experience anyone?
Lots of good responses here. Let me add one more - liability.
If there's a fire or some other catastrophe and the fault is traced back to unpermitted work, you can expect your insurance company to deny your claim and any injured people to sue you into oblivion.
Get the permit and don't have that Sword of Damocles hanging over your head.
@Sergey A. Petrov the fact of the matter is a lot of experience investors don't pull permits. If I saw judge Judy blowing red lights you maybe you'd have a point. Thanks for the help though
@Sergey A. Petrov the fact of the matter is a lot of experience investors don't pull permits.
Maybe, maybe not.....but you don't know the prices they pay for not doing it right. If you are going to cheat, just make sure that you are really smart about it because the penalties can be very severe and could cost you a good portion of your investment dollars......