Atlanta neighborhood classification question

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Atlanta neighborhood classification question

Anna Watkins
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 389 posts · 250 votes

I'm looking for some benchmarks for figuring out how different areas in intown and near OP Atlanta are classified (A, B, C, D areas).  I bought my personal residence 'across the tracks' in the City of Decatur 20 years ago (in the crack-house era), stay away from Buckhead as much as possible, and invest in Belvedere/East Lake, so my comfort-zone might be a bit skewed off average.  I can't figure out what's B, C, & D, or how to imagine those areas in other cities I might want to invest in.

So, how would you classify Oakhurst/Winnona Park? B? C+?  @Rick Baggenstoss -- what's Midway Woods now?  What was it 7 years ago? @Todd Whiddon -- how about the Northlake neighborhoods?

How is an area like Garden Hills or Peachtree Hills in Buckhead classified?  Are they A areas?  Is there even a classification concept for the MacChateaux on Riverside Drive, or Mt. Paran Rd?

What about Belvedere Park?  I'd live there in a minute, but I'm not everybody.  My plumber said he was nervous about the area, which made me really start to wonder!  Are we in C or D territory here?

And West End/Adair Park?  How about the areas west of GA Tech but south of the newly trendy Westside. It's so spotty now, but I still don't have a feel for how they compare to "war zones."

Any rules of thumb for figuring this out on my own?   Does it translate from city to city?  Thanks!!

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Michaela G.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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As to plumber, I loooove my plumber: Toby Jones 770-572-0307. Originally found him on craigslist, but he's fantastic and inexpensive and reliable and he does all my houses.

I think neighborhood categorization can so differ between perspectives.

I moved into Grant Park in '91 and everyone that heard about it, but hadn't been there in a long time was asking whether I wasn't scared and whether I had a gun. The first night I spent in my new old house I woke up with loud gunshots. I was terrified. It was right behind my house and sounded as if a gang war was going on. I got dressed, grabbed my cat and my purse in order to drive to a hotel somewhere. As I came out my front door, I noticed all these people on the street, watching the fireworks from the stadium a few blocks behind my house, because the Braves had just won a game.

Some people thought it was a D neighborhood, I never saw it that way. I proceeded to renovate about a 10 Victorians in the following 15 years in the area. Never had the need to carry a gun. I always loved the neighborhood.

From Grant Park I moved into Adair Park in 2003. I saw the same housing stock, so close to Downtown and saw a neighborhood that was so due to shine. Unfortunately, mortgage scammers took on everything in 30310 and destroyed so many properties. And I did some research and turned a few larger ones over to the FBI - hehe.

Adair Park houses are in the +100K range , very different from West End. But West End has pockets that are gorgeous Victorians and there are pockets with rundown crackhouses, so, I think it varies a lot.

Right across from Adair Park, on the other side of Metropolitan, there's Pittsburgh. Most investors think this is a total war zone. But I started buying there in 2008, because I knew the neighborhood well (had been flipping lots there a few years before, when I lived in Adair Park) and knew that it really wasn't so bad. I got great deals and don't regret buying. I can live of the income now. And I lived in 1 of my houses for 1.5 years in 2011/12 , white, blonde, blue eyed with a red convertible. Never had anything happen to me. I walked all through the neighborhood daily, between my houses. Yes, there was a certain amount of racism against me by some, but I was never attacked or had anything happen to me. Most people are just hardworking people, who try to make ends meet. 

So, I think the best thing to get to know a neighborhood is to farm it. Not to work on 10 areas at the same time and be a jack-of-all-trades, but become a specialist in whatever neighborhood you want to work in. Walk it. Talk to people. Get to know the neighborhood. Introduce yourself. Give out your card with promise of reward for turning you on to a house. And make up your own mind. Perceptions may still be from some years before and the areas may have changed since.

Just my opinion ;-)

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  • Maxwell Lee
    Real Estate Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 474 posts · 214 votes
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    Love this thread. Thanks for starting it all @Anna Watkins 

    I have a strong interest in Atlanta, being a nearby market and the fact that I have traveled there very often for work and pleasure. 

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  • Damir KamberPro Member
    Investor · Roswell, GA · Member since 2014 · 234 posts · 97 votes
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    Nothing better than local threads. This is awesome. We have a condo in Old Forth Ward and we loved living in that area. People will overlook certain things, like crime, just to be in the city. Atlanta is a very attractive city, a lot going on at any given time and it's awesomely diverse. 

    Damir 

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  • Anna Watkins
    OP
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 389 posts · 250 votes
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    I think Damir says it right -- people who want to live in the city can handle stuff -- cars get rifled through, there's petty crime and sometimes worse. It's not super, but it goes with the urban environment and there's a market of people who will choose that over the suburbs.  I did -- proximity won out over square footage by a mile.

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  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    A lot of crime intown is opportunistic: They walk by, see an opportunity and take it. So, it's about not giving opportunity:

    Have a car alarm and don't leave things inside, that can be seen from the outside. lock your front porch furniture with an eyering a chain and a lock. I never had another fern stolen, once I started hanging them with wires crisscrossing the hook/chain and sticking needles through those wires in different directions. 

    1Reply
  • Jerry Robinson
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 5 votes
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    This is a great thread, thanks for starting it @Anna Watkins. I feel that these types of threads are so  educational for newbies like myself trying to build a flipping/rental business. I just completed my 1st flip in Jonesboro and I'm trying to make a more educated selection on markets I choice in order to improve my returns and have houses in market were more buyers are considering ( thanks form feed back for other helpful BP members @Todd Whiddon).

    As I read about the different markets I noticed some of then I have been looking at for consideration:

    West End 30310 area seams hard to determine true values with houses completely vacant to homes that are fully restored.

    Adair Park 30315 near Stanton Park area. I wonder how the area will do when the new stadium is finished in Cobb County and has it been determine the outcome of Tunner Fields.

    Edgewood area 30316 near Walker Park which to me had the most activity with regards to new construction and rehabs around the areas.

    Can anyone share their thoughts on me focusing in on these areas, or would I be better off in other areas in Atlanta... keeping in mind a smaller budget as a newbie :) 

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  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    I think you might be mixing up Adair Park with another neighborhood. 

    Adair Park is 30310. Don't know where Stanton Park is, but I don't think it's anywhere bordering Adair Park or I would know about it. 

    Also, I don't think Adair park will be influenced much by Turner field area. That's more Summerhill , Peoplestown and Mechanicsville

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  • Jerry Robinson
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 5 votes
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    @Michaela G. 

    thank you for the clarification. I was driving around  and saved a few listing to review once I got home. I noticed the mls#5364965 & 7356935 and one mention short walk to Stanton Park and future beltway. I lived in Atlanta for 8 years and I still have a hard time understanding the area completely.

    I'm still trying to find a better way to conduct my searches. I come into Atlanta to work on my houses and with a little time left I look for new areas to consider. I would be open to a better system especially form someone like yourself who resides in LA as well while invest in Atlanta.

    Thank again

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  • Anna Watkins
    OP
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 389 posts · 250 votes
    11y

    Edgewood/Kirkwood/Reynoldstown seem pretty hot -- at least there are LOT of construction dumpsters on the streets. In terms of right now, my guess these would be better for investing, but more expensive.  My daughter's Ultimate team practices at Walker Park.  Maybe the West End/Adair Park will keep heating up, especially with the beltline developments.

    I've sort of gotten a 'stay out of Atlanta or City of Decatur" attitude just because the taxes are SO high.  Not an issue if you're planning to flip, but big if you plan to hold.  You have to have a lot of rent to pay for $5k/year in city taxes (plus a little bit of county on top).

    1Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    Most of my properties in Pittsburgh have taxes around $ 400

    1Reply
  • Frank Iglesias
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 79 posts · 38 votes
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    Interesting tread.  We buy to wholesale and renovate in all sorts of parts of Atlanta.  The whole East Atlanta area from Cabbagetown through Kirkwood/Oakhurst is all A-B class properties nowadays except for some specific little pockets that will take some more time to come around or where the location is too close to the interstate to pull strong values.  The south side of 20 has a lot of simialr areas.  Some parts are closer to B-C quality but it can change by the streets so no one neighborhood is 100% solid.  We have two currently in Cabbagetown which is a hot area but some people would say the houses are too tight.  It just depends on so many factors.  Historic West End is nice as we are purchasing one there.  Same for Adair Park depending on the street.  There are other areas as well that are doing nicely.  In the end, the street and the neighboring street in each direction in my opinion will drive the quality/class of property and price point in town.  That's been our experience.  We like doing intown deals!

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  • Account Closed
    Real Estate Investor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 8 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Todd Whiddon:

    @Anna Watkins I've never really thought of the Intown Hoods as A-B-C-D, I always just think, "Do I need my hatchet, my pistol, or my AR-15?"

    Most of our new construction these days is in what MOST would consider A-B parts of town, "Dunwoody, Roswell, North Fulton, Briarcliff"

    But 2-3 years ago before new construction was feasible we were mostly flipping in what most would consider C-D hoods, Gresham Park, East Atlanta, South Edgewood.

    I'm currently looking to build up my rental portfolio in the D parts of town that have potential to transition to B-C in the next 15-20 years.

    Each part of town has it's own price point and game you can play. There is money to be made in all of them. If I'm looking at a deal in a part of town I'm not familiar with, I check out the MLS comps to see if the buy/sell numbers make sense, and then just ask around until I find someone familiar with the area who can tell me how many times my AC unit will be stolen before I sell it, and adjust my rehab budget accordingly. :)

     I love it!

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  • Ericka Parrott
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2009 · 381 posts · 134 votes
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    Wow, looks like someone got tired of replacing the AC. Nice pic.

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  • Drew McLeod
    Specialist · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    @AnnaWatkins This is a great thread! Thanks for posting Anna. As a newbie in the Atlanta real estate market this information has been very beneficial. 

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  • Todd Whiddon
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2010 · 325 posts · 335 votes
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    Originally posted by @Ericka Parrott:

    Wow, looks like someone got tired of replacing the AC. Nice pic.

     You gotta do what you gotta do!

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  • Vincent Crane
    Realtor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 693 posts · 357 votes
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    This is a great thread and definitely needs to keep going. What do you all think of the current market in Atlanta being as expensive as it is? Prices all across Atlanta are pretty much right back to where they were before the crash. There's condo's and townhomes going up everywhere. I'm seeing townhomes in Buckhead and Vinings starting at $800k or $900k. Are we headed for a downturn in the next few years? If so, by what percent? And, where can we get decent cashflow on SFR's or small multi's, without being in a C- or D neighborhood?

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  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    @Vincent Crane , I wished the prices were back to 2006/7 . I would be sitting pretty with my properties in the Pittsburgh neighborhood. lol. Houses were around 200K then. I just bought another duplex there for 15K

    1Reply
  • Anna Watkins
    OP
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 389 posts · 250 votes
    11y

    Occasionally I see what might be good deals, even on the MLS, but they'd require varying amounts of work. Yesterday, though, I was looking at listings for houses in my rental neighborhood around Belvedere Park and all I could think about the asking prices was "WHAT are they smoking?!!" (some have been listed for a very long time, though) @Rick Baggenstoss, are you still flipping around there?  What do you think?

    1Reply
  • Vincent Crane
    Realtor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 693 posts · 357 votes
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    @Michaela G. You bought a duplex in pittsburgh for $15k...?

    0Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    Originally posted by @Vincent Crane:

    @Michaela G. You bought a duplex in pittsburgh for $15k...?

     yes, closing tomorrow

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  • Vincent Crane
    Realtor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 693 posts · 357 votes
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    @Michaela G. How in the world do you get a duplex for $15k?? Is it in a war zone? is it a total gut job, REO?

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  • Jeremy Pace
    Contractor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 885 posts · 359 votes
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    It's all about the neighborhood, there are several for sale under $10k right now.

    1Reply
  • Anna Watkins
    OP
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 389 posts · 250 votes
    11y

    The Pittsburgh neighborhood of SW Atlanta (west of the rr tracks and east of Adair Park) is still pretty scruffy, lots of properties needing lots of work.  The Beltline is to run just south of the area, and the Ted Turner redevelopment is just east. There are several SFHs listed in the $25k range -- maybe @Michaela G. got it wholesale?  I'd be interested in the details, Michaela -- please share!

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  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Anna Watkins , 

    I haven't close, yet, so I don't want to jinx it. But just because someone's asking for a particular price, does not mean that that's what they're going to get.

    1Reply
  • Anna Watkins
    OP
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 389 posts · 250 votes
    11y

    @Michaela G. -- True enough.  Does it maybe seem that sellers have gotten their expectations up too much lately and setting asking prices unrealistically high?  At least in some of the more fringe-trendy areas.

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  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Let's say that my plans for the property are different than what he might think. I don't plan to renovate it. It's sort of part of an assemblage with properties that I already own, that will be very lucrative, once they're building on the 31 acre tract on University.

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